Just for kicks you guys need to read or watch the video on Remingtons web site about that so called defective bolt. They basically disprove everything. Those guns had been tampered with or were really rusted up.

I wont argue any more, you have been educated and do what you will with it.
rems are easier to work on because of the round reciever can be turned in 19th century lathes, vanguards do not need to be touched and cant be worked on by any joe blow gun builder
rem if you want to build
vanguard if you want the best out of a factory box

Educated by your opinion you mean?

Okay seriously, leave the machining talk to people that know what they are talking about. First, all bolt rifle actions can be turned in an engine lathe via chuck or mandrel: or as you call it 19th century lathes. Secondly I dont claim to be a master machinist, but I can keep toleraces on an engine lathe to within + or - .001". Often times to within + or -.0005". I can and have even done final honing/stoning on some dimensions to within .0000-.0001". You want to talk about centering...I have centered off of bore I.D. to within .0005" in a four jaw chuck, next time around I can probably do better. Vanguards cant be worked on by "Joe Blow" gun builder? Comical! The only thing that makes this action different to work on is the threads are metric instead of standard TPI, some lathes wont do metric, most will. Doesnt mean its any harder to work on, just some people dont have the machine to thread metric.

Vanguards have their quality control issues just like any other gun. Should I bring up the time I got a vanguard that only cantacted on ONE lug? Good thing it was going to be lapped! When I compared certain dimensions on two FACTORY Howa actions, there was a difference of .005" bewteen them. So how is that "zero tolerance" CNC argument going for you? Off-center bolt face? I've seen it on Howa bolts. I can go on.

The broken off REM bolt handles happened because they were not properly done from the factory. It happens. If done properly your not going to break that brazed/saudered joint by human force.

Vanguards the best out of the box gun? Debatable...they are great economy rifles, but the best? Not even.

You remind me of some of the arrogant guys at the school that already knew everything before attending. Usually they wise up...

TDK,

How about just easing into it to keep the entertainment going...grin...

I was being easy...

TDK could just be spewing complete BS for all I know but it sure sounds good!

What you say vangaurd??

wondering why he chose a savage action or howa to build

http://www.texashuntingforum.com/forum/u...a_a#Post1360793

That was a while back. Now I know a lot more. NOW if I was building a higher end rifle its going to be on a mauser 98 or modern copy, Model 70 pre-64, 1903, or 1917.

The reason I wanted a Howa or Savage back then was because of price only! You also failed to mention I was also accepting Rem 700 actions too. Try again...

Back then, while back, was 9 months to the day......

Out of the box current factory production rifles, I'll still take Savage.


If limited to the vanguard vs remington, I'd want to know which remington. they still build good guns, but they are cutting corners in their baseline guns... If it was a top of the line Remington to a top of the line Vanguard, even I would take Remington.

Okay, let me rephrase. That was just before I started my actual schooling, and gave up on the internet "learning". My taste in rifles have changed for the better.

all good choices doesnt the vanguard have m16 style extraction thats only second to the mauser
youve made some points on quailty control but can you explain how a rem is better made than a vanguard
and isnt the new fn made win better than the pre 64
exactly what part of a rem is better than a howa

Its not "better" made. But, you dont exactly see Rem 700 actions or bolts failing under normal use. Now consider how many more 700's are out there. Of course your going to hear of more issues. Howa cant touch the 700 on quantity. Like I said earlier, they are both good rifles, but I will agree that the lower end Rem's have been "cheapened" enough.
If it makes a difference I have no beef with Howa, heck im building one right now(not by choice). I think they are a good rifle, but your not going to hear me argue its case.

I havent had the new FN M70 in front of me, so cant really compare. I have heard good things on them though. Pre-64 is just a good classic.

I will outshoot all you guys with a NEF single shot..........

so I stumped the the gunsmith
ya everything about the vanguard is better, one piece forged fluted and gas ported bolt,with m16 style claw extraction
one piece forged reciever with integral locking lugs, cartridge incased in 3 rings of steel, flat reciever base for unmatched stock to reciever fitment, huge square reciever pillars,hammer forged kreiger barrel, a trigger and safety that actually works and on sub moa a guarantee remington canot touch along with a bell and carlson stock with full aluminum bedding.
still waiting for why a rem is better
swish nothing but net.....

oh heres the rem reciever being tested

http://erniethegunsmith.com/catalog/i130.html

so sub moa guarantee is 1 1/2"

Just to stir u said vanguard is best outta box rifle, does a weatherby mark v not come outta of a box

Serious google-foo going on...

Dude, you gotta use a spell check at some point.

howa actions better

How well will the sub-moa shoot a 5 shot group?????

hehehehehe

and an injection molded plastic stock?

a MACHINED one piece reciever

well i know what a 1 1/2 gauarantee will provde