Looking to buy a muzzle loader for a retirement gift and I know nothing about these tings. Looking at the kits at Cabelas and the T/C Triumph looks pretty cool. Would this be a good selection or is there a better choice. The person receiving knows nothing about these either, just wants to get started. We have roughly 700.00 to spend. Thoughts and insights appreciated.

I am not a fan of TC at all, having had some. But their muzzle loaders are good. The triumph is ok or look at the Omega. Their breech plugs are easy o remove and speed up cleaning.

The most accurate ML I have ever seen was a Thompson Center Encore 209x50. It is outstanding. You can get it in Stainless and if the grandkids come hunting during regular season you can swith barrels to a suitable centerfire caliber for them. Check eabco for good info on ML accuracy, Encores, barrels, and other good info.

I am also enamored with traditional ML's and for the money the Lyman Great Plains is a good value. I have seen good pricing at Mid South. We own a couple of the Lyman Deer Slayers for the kids to use and they are a nice rifle capable of good 50-75 yard hunting accuracy. They are shorter than the GP and well balanced.
Get the peep sights and if possible get Stainless.

The Thompson Center Hawken is also excellent. Neither the Lyman Deer Slayers or the TC Hawken really look like the rifles our forefathers carried, but they are fun to shoot. The TC's are made in America.

Hope this helps.
Kell

If you can still find one....Austin & Halleck. A good looking and very accurate m/l, but the company went out of business about 4 years ago1

I guess it would depend on if they liked the traditional or inlines.

I am going to guess that an inline would be closer to what he wants. He has only mentioned a few times about wanting one. They seem a little easier to get started with to me but I don't know much about them. I appreciate all the responses and help givin. Looks like the whole station likes the one mentioned above so we will probably go with it unless someone really convinces me otherwise.

I am a fan of T/C!
Omega Camo SS .50 cal

110 grs Blackhorn 209 powder
300 grain Harvester Scorpion PT Gold bullet
Harvester crush rib sabot
Federal 209a primer

Bushnell Trophy DOA ML 3x9 scope

Groups 1" @ 100 yds everytime! Newer T/C s love Blackhorn 209
powder. I talked to the folks @ Harvester before I bought my ML
and they are a great source. It saved me trying a bunch of different combos. You really need to read up on the difference Blackhorn 209 powder has between all other BP substitutes. I'll never shoot anything else! But there again I shoot a modern inline. BH 209 only works with rifles that use STANDARD 209 primers (and not the special 209 Muzzleloader primers made by some companies) There's a whole lot more to learn, STUDY!

The Lyman GPR isnt as good as it used to be the quality on the finished guns has fallen way off, I think theyre assembled in the far east now, the components still made in Italy.

If you want a quality traditional rifle check out the various Pedersoli models they make something in just about every style, mountain rifle, etc.

Owned several different ones and I settled on the T/C Hawkens .50 cal. percussion. It is a keeper.

My clients have always done well with the encore.

For a black powder hunting rifle the absolute best deal for the money is a used .54 caliber TC Renegade. Just be sure and check it over before you buy. Make sure the barrel hasn't been neglected and everything functions properly.
Before nay saying just look it over and see the American made quality, the balance, nice handling and butt kicking power. Some people's cheek bones have trouble with stock design so throw it to your shoulder and see for yourself.
Watch the classified ads and the pawn shops, get yourself a real deal.

IMO the "modern" MLs are neither fish nor fowl and made only to add marketing opportunities to their line ($).

I agree with the Renegade except you stated it is for a retirement gift. Soooo, the best off the shelf option I know of is the Lyman Great Plains Rifle.

I'll have to disagree with "modern ML neither fish nor fowl"
Obviously you are a "traditional" shooter. Nothing wrong with that, but to bash a whole group of us who shoot "modern" is bad for everybody. Kinda like vertical bow folks bashing crossbow folks or artifical fisherman bashing guys that fish with live bait. There's room for us all. I shoot modern because I like accuracy but I won't bash you for what you've chosen. The anit-hunters love it when we bicker amongst ourselves. My T/C Omega .50 prints 1" groups @ 100 yds everytime and I'm happy and confident with that. If it's more important to an individual to dress in buckskin and carry an antique rifle like Daniel Boone, that's great! It is the American right of choice! Let's keep it that way- live and let live. Good hunting and enjoyment, that's what it is about.

Well said---

You are correct, I shoot traditional MLs. I also shoot and hunt with center fires. I just don't mix them. Note I said IMO they are neither fish nor fowl and it is just that - my opinion. Not derogatory or bashing, just a statement. I also shoot recurve and compound bows but not crossbow - that is also IMO neither fish mor fowl. Again my opinion. Somebody read things that were not written. So NO!--Poorly said!!

I have the TC triumph and it shoots great, Used it on a elk hunt in November and shot the elk at 235 yards with it.

Look at CVA Accura very nice guns. There well made and they are cheaper than the TC's. I shoot tc's and CVA's and they are both
good guns.

...and now whe have the crossbow as neither "fish nor fowl"
Interesting, since the first known crossbow was found in
a 5th century BC tomb, roughly 2000 years before your "traditional" ML appeared on the scene.

READ

I didn't say crossbows were not ancient. I said they were neither a bow or a gun-they possess characteristics of both.

I did not disparage them.

I went with the oddball. Traditions .45 cal. Shoots Magnum loads of 150 gr. of powder,shoots .40 cal. sabot (that's a 10 mm.) is a 26 inch barrel with a 1:20 twist and with a ballistic tip hollow point ,can reach muzzle velocities of 2800 FPS. That's a 350 yard muzzleloader. I shot a buck 2 years ago with it using the stock lumi-sights at 225 yards. Great for hogs also. Was sold on it when a buddy of mine shot on antelope with one at 320 yards.