I hope I'm posting this under the right area?

I've recently visited a property that a few of us guys want on. The landowner doesn't want to mess with a contract or "lease" just have us "donate" money to him for access. The place is amazing and I'm nuts over it and want on. I'm just concerned, because nothing in writing means I could lose the right to hunt with nothing to prove that I can be there. I know back in the day everything was done via a handshake, and I'm ok with that, and everyone else (the other 4 guys) are too. I'm just concerned since he's wary of doing a lease because of the state stuff he'll have to go through? From my researching, the only thing needed via the state is a lease license from TPWD for $147 (based on acres), is there something else that would be needed? If that is it, I'd offer to pay the $147 if he'll sign a contract or at least something guaranteeing my access for a year.

Your thoughts?

I would be very wary - if it's not in writing then it pretty much doesn't exist.

I don't think the 147 bucks is the issue. He might not want a bunch of wardens cruzing his property all the time. That's how the wardens get addresses to stake out. Just get to know the owner and get his information, telephone, address and if your good boys he will be glad to have you come back year after year. If you like this property that much you should take the chance.

Respectfully ask that he and you sign something that shows you have the right to hunt on his property from x-date to y-date, not because you don't trust him but to protect your interest in case something should happen to him.

Or at least make up some kind of receipt that shows you paid him X amount of dollars for the priviledge of hunting on his property and have him sign it.

I don't know the reason but most of the people I have leased from didn't want a contract including the current one. If it is an issue for you pm me the info as my group is looking to move.

Does the landowner have to pay income tax on the amount of the lease? That's the only thing I could think of that he would want you to just "donate" to him for access. I have never really thought about it from a landowner point of view because I have never owned property that I've leased out. If tax has to be paid on it though, that could be it.

I would not touch it without a lease contract. The days of handshake leases are long gone. If he doesn't want to sign a lease document, then something is fishy. Could be he'll let other hunters pay to "day hunt", or you'll find his kinfolk in your blinds on opening morning. Lease contracts make good business sense and protect both you and the land owner. If he still won't sign a contract after offering to pay the TPWL fees, then I suggest walking away. Briskly.

If it is like most places you are dealing at the very least in thousands of dollars, maybe tens of thousands, do you make a habit of doing this size deal with no paper trail. You are setting yourself up for a big problem. There is no legit reason for no contract. If he does not want to pay taxes that's pretty easy to get around and still have a contract. Personally I would move on. Are hunters just not that smart, you will never find another situation where people deal in large amounts of money and have no terms, contracts, reciepts, something. It was one thing back in the day when farmer Joe got $400-500 from you to hunt, when it turned into 8-12 dollars an acre and more things change, as well they should and spare me the hand shake crap and the their the landowner crap,if they are not willing to put something in writing they should not be leasing. They don't want to pay taxes I will gladly count out $100 dollar bills but they should be more Ghana willing to have a little contract that covers everyones arses. Imho

I guess I'm still one of the guys left that believes in a hand shake. Might be a dying breed, but I am a native Texan too. Now that might change if this "donation" is $5K per head. But I kinda got the feeling that it's not and this donation is not $8-12/acre.

If you persist and go through with making a "donation" and no contract...

Please, Please, Please be sure that you are making this handshake deal with the true and rightful landowner and not the son/nephew/brother in law/random stranger who knows the gate code.

Atleast see if he will give you written permission to be on the property. That's what I would be most worried about.

I did the "no contract" this year and I will be looking for a new lease!!

tgt

The only way I would make a "handshake" deal is if I know the owner really well. Unfortunately, you have to have a contract now days. I suggest you stay away if he will not sign a contract.

Mine is a no contract deal but I've known the owner for 7years and we let his 2 sons hunt it. We get our deer every year regardless and more turkeys and hogs then you could shake a stick at. It's price accordingly "cheap" and I like it that way. If I had to pay 1500.00/yr contract or no contract, I might just do day hunts.

Good point. That actually happened to me a few years ago. I leased a place in North Texas for hunting. I had the landowner sign a contract stating I had exclusive hunting rights to the property for the entire year. Well, we decided we would drive up and do a dove shoot on opening weekend of dove season. When we arrived at the place, I noticed there were sinks and water bottles set up near the gate. There was also sunflower fields planted with strips mowed through them. I didn't know what the heck was going on. Well, about dark a couple of guys come driving in and tell us that they are in the outfitting business and had leased the property for the month of September and that we could not hunt. We called BS and pulled out our contract. So, they leave and come back in an hour with the Sheriff. Upon review of our contract and the Outfitter's contract the Sheriff told the guy that he had not leased from the landowner therefore the contract he had was not valid. He had actually leased from the owner's daughter-in-law. Said he had been doing it for years. Anyway, he and his 60 hunters had to find another place to hunt the next morning. He was REALLY ticked off but there was nothing he could do. It sure made for one heck of a dove hunt that weekend for us though.

Make sure you deal with the actual landowner!

I agree that a contract is the best policy, even when dealing with someone you know. Our lease was owned by several family members, and when there was a little falling out amongst them we ended up in the middle of a mess. I don't think any land owner should feel slighted if asked for something in writing.

Just an information update; the total lease people we are bringing are 5 total at $1k each. The landowner is definitely the land owner, we are 100% sure of that, and one of the guys coming onto the lease with me has known him for many years. The deal is us 5 plus the landowner and his nephew get to hunt the property only. We are allowed guests (immediate family members) and later in the season allowed friend guests. The total property is around 900 acres, and its already got some stands and feeders. It honestly is a steal of a deal, and the owner is giving us this price based on the fact we are going to do some improvements (food plots, a couple of shacks for sleeping).

I appreciate your input so far, I'm concerned with nothing in writing, come dove season, or bow season, the lock might be changed and just the landowner and his nephew remain as the only hunters (as they currently are right now). Without a contract I'm screwed, but is it worth risking the $1k out of my pocket for what I believe is one of the best hunting properties I've ever seen? (yes, I realize its a risk)

Nate, you hit the nail on the head. Is it worth the risk? As long as you know the risks, only you can decide whether it is worth it. Obviously based on the prior posts some think it is worth the risk and others do not.

I've been burned a time or two on those "handshake" deals with no contract. Never again.

I'd bet it will be worth the risk for a while, but eventually the landowner and his nephew are going to get real used to the improvements you make and decide they would like to keep them to themselves.

Then again, maybe not, and it could end up being a great deal for years to come.

If I were you, rather than getting a "contract" or "lease", just get it in writing that you are allowed on the property, to cover your own behind.

I would be even more worried if the landowner was wanting us to do all these improvements to his place and would not sign a contract with us. Sure it is only $1k for the year, but how much time and money are you going to have to put in to plant food plots and build cabins, etc. Sounds like a way for the landowner to get some nice improvements to his hunting land for free. Heck he will even make a little money. Just my $0.02.

I would want a long-term contract if I was going to put in that kind of time and money to build food plots and cabins. A few guys on my lease want to build a small cabin; however, the landowner will only do a year to year contract. I would prefer to put the money in things I can take with me like protein feeders, better stands, etc, should the landowner change his mind.

It sounds like it is worth the risk to give it one year, but I wouldn't break the bank on the cabin or the food plots.

According to Texas game laws you HAVE to have written permission in order to hunt on someones land UNLESS you are hunting with the owner or a family member. If you do not obtain written permission you run the risk of getting into hot water with the game warden....

The landowner has agreed to write something up (and have it notarized etc) to the effect that we have a right to be on his property for 365 days (from the date of our payment received).