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Tooth wear
#1969645
01/01/11 02:03 AM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 541
Chafro
OP
Tracker
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OP
Tracker
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 541 |
How accurate do you guys find it?
I have had some very strange surprises in tooth vs field estimations.
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Re: Tooth wear
[Re: Chafro]
#1969771
01/01/11 02:52 AM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296 |
It is real accurate up to 4.5 for me.I am ok with it up to 4.5 yrs of age. After that I go by what I think the deer looks like for age if the tooth wear age does not match what I think the is for age. The same person doing the aging is critical for me. I am looking for trend data on age class any way.
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: Tooth wear
[Re: stxranchman]
#1969786
01/01/11 02:58 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,191
Rowney
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,191 |
X2 on up to 4.5, maybe 5.5 depending on diet.
I can usually get within a year up to 6.5, after that, its best guess unless i know the deer and have been on the ranch.
As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind...Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks--Thomas Jefferson
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Re: Tooth wear
[Re: Rowney]
#1970031
01/01/11 05:04 AM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 11,442
Longhunter
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 11,442 |
Got a set the biologist put together for us of deer harvested on our ranch... Close enough for us!
Longhunter >>>-------> Make It Count!!!<><
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Re: Tooth wear
[Re: Rowney]
#1971653
01/02/11 01:46 AM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 541
Chafro
OP
Tracker
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OP
Tracker
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 541 |
I just harvest a management that I was sure was a very mature deer, 6.5 +.
But teeth were a text book 4.5.
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Re: Tooth wear
[Re: Chafro]
#1971890
01/02/11 03:04 AM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296 |
I just harvest a management that I was sure was a very mature deer, 6.5 +.
But teeth were a text book 4.5. Post pics of the deer and the jaw if you have it. Just curious. What did the deer dress in comparison to your other deer in that age class? Protien? If so how long on feed?
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: Tooth wear
[Re: stxranchman]
#1972162
01/02/11 04:45 AM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 541
Chafro
OP
Tracker
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OP
Tracker
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 541 |
Here are the pics of the deer. The 7 pointer. He was a managment in our place anyway at 4.5 but still i was sure he was an older deer, even the horns match an old deer. Beautifull 7 pointer.    I fine our hunters that kill a deer less than 5.5 so i need to be sure I can trust the aging.
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Re: Tooth wear
[Re: Chafro]
#1972414
01/02/11 11:43 AM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296 |
Looks like you get fined to me...lol...Based on the pics I would say he looks 4.5 or 5.5 for that time of the year. To tall and leggy looking to me. Facial features are more of a 4.5 yr old also. Either way he needed to go. What was his dressed weight? How did it compare to other mature bucks. Need to read some recent research done by CKWRI in Kingsville on aging by toothwear. Very enlightening. They are now suggesting to group bucks for aging due to problems with tooth wear aging.
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: Tooth wear
[Re: stxranchman]
#1975868
01/03/11 06:24 PM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 541
Chafro
OP
Tracker
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OP
Tracker
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 541 |
Im gona have to fine myself,. LOL. 6-7 pointers are managment to us from 3.5 years up.
WE didnt weight him.
But the body appeared big as the 5-6 age deer class deer we been hunting this year.
Cant find that recent reaserch, do you have the link?
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Re: Tooth wear
[Re: Chafro]
#1975964
01/03/11 06:54 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296 |
Here is part of the mail out that I received from them. Can't find the original but this will help you...http://ckwri.tamuk.edu/research-programs/deer-research-program/research/king-ranch-deer-project/ scroll down till you get to: Aging Bias and New Criteria for Aging South Texas White-tailed Deer.
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: Tooth wear
[Re: stxranchman]
#1976124
01/03/11 07:31 PM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 541
Chafro
OP
Tracker
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OP
Tracker
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 541 |
Thanks!!!
That doesnt help me alot LOL,, I need to know the difference from 4.5 and 5.5 bucks. I guess guesstimation will have to do.
But this other reaserch makes my manangemnt bucks guide lines right on the money (we kill 3.5+ with less than 8 points and 4.5 + with less than 9 points that score under 140):
Prior Antler Development as a Predictor of Future Antler Size John S. Lewis, Mickey W. Hellickson, David G. Hewitt, and Fred C. Bryant
Trophy deer management often involves controlling numbers of both bucks and does. Because the objective of trophy deer management is to produce larger-antlered bucks, many wildlife managers wish to remove the portion of the buck population with the least potential for large antler size. This traditionally includes removing spike-antlered yearling bucks and smaller-antlered older individuals; however, there are little data available to support one culling system over another.
We present trends in antler development comparing gross Boone & Crockett score (GBC) of individuals captured early in life to the same individuals captured at a later date using data from the South Texas Buck Capture Project. Data from bucks captured from 1998–2007 indicate 3% of spike-antlered yearling bucks scored >150 GBC, while 33% of fork-antlered yearlings scored >150 at 5.5+ years old. Of 3.5 year old deer with ≤ 8 points, only 8% scored >150 GBC, compared to 37% for those with 9 or more points. For 4.5 year old bucks with ≤9 points, 5% scored >150 GBC, whereas 24% of bucks with 10 or more points scored >150.
These criteria might be useful in trophy management of white-tailed deer where the manager can control harvest intensity and selection. Caution is advised for managers of properties where stakeholder interest is in harvesting more deer—not larger deer, or where deer densities or sex ratios do not require removal of bucks.
Last edited by Chafro; 01/03/11 07:32 PM.
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Re: Tooth wear
[Re: Chafro]
#1976463
01/03/11 09:14 PM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,075
exoticbob
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,075 |
he does look like a 4.5 to me. 5.5 typically start having more back sway, brisket carries even with the gut etc... basically the body starts to make the legs looks shorter because of the blockiness. if any of this makes sense. of course i am no expert.
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Re: Tooth wear
[Re: stxranchman]
#1976473
01/03/11 09:20 PM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 853
murph
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 853 |
It is real accurate up to 4.5 for me.I am ok with it up to 4.5 yrs of age. After that I go by what I think the deer looks like for age if the tooth wear age does not match what I think the is for age. The same person doing the aging is critical for me. I am looking for trend data on age class any way. The part highlighted in red x1000! And I would agree 4.5 looking deer.
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Re: Tooth wear
[Re: Chafro]
#1976477
01/03/11 09:24 PM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 853
murph
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 853 |
Here are the pics of the deer. The 7 pointer. He was a managment in our place anyway at 4.5 but still i was sure he was an older deer, even the horns match an old deer. Beautifull 7 pointer.
I fine our hunters that kill a deer less than 5.5 so i need to be sure I can trust the aging. I used to fine our hunters based on age of deer, but aging by toothwear was too subjective. The tape measure does not lie! I have been the one doing the toothwear aging on the lease I manage since '97 so we have consistency for record keeping, every deer, including doe has the jaw removed for later comparison.
Last edited by murph; 01/03/11 09:25 PM.
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Re: Tooth wear
[Re: murph]
#1976879
01/03/11 11:17 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,550
rtp
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,550 |
On my place, if I remove the jaw and the tooth wear does not match what I was guessing the age to be, then I send in the teeth to deerage.com for lab analysis. If the results come back to match the tooth wear, this is what we call the deer. If it comes back and matches what the body suggested, this is what we call the deer. Every buck's teeth I have sent in for lab analysis has come back older by at least a year than what the tooth wear had suggested. Some deer just have good teeth and dont wear the same as most. It is all a crap shoot in my opinion. We do the best we can and let the chips fall where they may. Dont take the fun out of hunting. The guys that I share my south fenceline with send all of their teeth in for analysis. The vast majority come back one year older than what the tooth wear shows. Im talking about bucks that are at least 4.5 yr old.
Let'em grow old
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Re: Tooth wear
[Re: Chafro]
#1977766
01/04/11 02:31 AM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296 |
Thanks!!!
That doesnt help me alot LOL,, I need to know the difference from 4.5 and 5.5 bucks. I guess guesstimation will have to do.
But this other reaserch makes my manangemnt bucks guide lines right on the money (we kill 3.5+ with less than 8 points and 4.5 + with less than 9 points that score under 140):
Prior Antler Development as a Predictor of Future Antler Size John S. Lewis, Mickey W. Hellickson, David G. Hewitt, and Fred C. Bryant
Trophy deer management often involves controlling numbers of both bucks and does. Because the objective of trophy deer management is to produce larger-antlered bucks, many wildlife managers wish to remove the portion of the buck population with the least potential for large antler size. This traditionally includes removing spike-antlered yearling bucks and smaller-antlered older individuals; however, there are little data available to support one culling system over another.
We present trends in antler development comparing gross Boone & Crockett score (GBC) of individuals captured early in life to the same individuals captured at a later date using data from the South Texas Buck Capture Project. Data from bucks captured from 1998–2007 indicate 3% of spike-antlered yearling bucks scored >150 GBC, while 33% of fork-antlered yearlings scored >150 at 5.5+ years old. Of 3.5 year old deer with ≤ 8 points, only 8% scored >150 GBC, compared to 37% for those with 9 or more points. For 4.5 year old bucks with ≤9 points, 5% scored >150 GBC, whereas 24% of bucks with 10 or more points scored >150.
These criteria might be useful in trophy management of white-tailed deer where the manager can control harvest intensity and selection. Caution is advised for managers of properties where stakeholder interest is in harvesting more deer—not larger deer, or where deer densities or sex ratios do not require removal of bucks.
If you can get the detail article that came out in a mailer about 2 months ago it has much more info in that will help you some.
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: Tooth wear
[Re: stxranchman]
#1977867
01/04/11 02:52 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 63,107
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 63,107 |
do you have any other pictures where he is not around other bucks and all bristled up?
his front knees have that knuckle look, thats why I'm asking..
Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, b/c they know not victory nor defeat"- #26 TR
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Re: Tooth wear
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#1978545
01/04/11 05:55 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 33
aggiedp05
Light Foot
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Light Foot
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 33 |
tooth wear is going to vary depending on the part of the state you are hunting in. in an area with sandy soil, the teeth are going to be ground down quicker than other areas. you see it in cattle alot too
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