Type is cheap my friend.

Pro AR people, please answer a question for me!!! How is the 13in rule going to help me in a County with bucks that genetically have narrow racks and most likely never reach a spread of 13in? We are , of course, saving younger bucks, except spikes, and also older mature bucks!!! There are few bucks I've seen at my lease that will ever make 13in. and those that do its very close!!! I can not afford $2000 to get on a better lease!!! Thats why I hunt in Tyler County!!!

Me too.

Man should control the quantity and let nature control the quality.

My question for the guys who complain about the "If it's brown, it's down " hunters.
Do you shoot PINK deer?

It is all about big money. I have lots of older deer on gamecam
that will never be 13", also.

Seadog - There are no counties with narrow genetic dispositions in deer antlers. Maybe small areas within any given county, but that's not a county-wide trait. It's probably because a bunch of irresponsible hunters killed all the young bucks that showed potential and left nothing but lousy bucks.

Don't worry my friend - ARs will save you. It just may take a little longer. You're paying for the sins of your fellow (East Texas) man.

When will you ever learn?

You're a sneaky fellow, Curly, but I'm onto you.

Finding and taking a mature deer in east texas should be a great challenge for all the super-hunters.... since there are so few of them... in fact, they should trade all us brown its down rednecks a hunt on their high dollar ranches and breeder pens for one of our back to the basics real life hard hunting hunts...

There, see, AR's are workking in east texas

I admit that on my lease, most of the hunters are like that but on the lease that borders mine,(rifleman mentioned), they had strict rules for management for years and we both suffer from the same narrow racked mature bucks. I've seen a big 5.5yr old 10 point this year that I've never seen on camera before that would go probably 12 to 12.5 inches and a big mature 8 that I've seen for 3 years that would probably only go 12.5in!!! How long do I have to wait for this change? 10yrs? When all these bucks that are inferior die off, hopefully not spreading their genes. I am by no means an expert but, in my opinion, genetic make-up is everything from the color of eyes, size of deer and antlers, etc...!!!

That works for me!!!

Where did you get that your county is genetically imposed to narrow racks? Is that a fact, or your opinion?

Here is the problem, people don't know how to guess age on the hoof. Of course a 2 or 3 year old buck is going to look huge, especially when you are only seeing fawns and yearlings, haha.

Go and talk to some of the WMA's around you, White Oak and Gus Engeling, and ask them to see their data. Your foot will be down your throat.

Gotta luv those AR restrictions!!! If your whole county only has genetics for narrow <13" deer, you better move!! During my years down at SFA, I hunted the NF (couldn't afford anything else). I didn't see many deer, but I did see bucks that would pass the AR.

I'm going to add to this thread. I own 300 acres in Henderson county with control over harvest on 140 more. The AR rules will not help where I am located. The locals shoot what they want when they want. The only thing the new rules do is make it difficult for us to tell if a Buck is legal. We follow the law and have only shot one buck in 6 years. We pass deer all the time, but when we have a guest(usually an inexperienced hunter) I don't want to stress over what they might shoot. Heck I don't want the pressure on what I might shoot. This will never be a trophy area and when they added the doe days and bag increases they made the local outlaws more able to getaway their bloody deeds on their 15 acres. At least with doe permits required the Warden had a place to start.

next door you have to know the age or get the mess fined out of you (and once again..been that way since the 60s, so it's not just some new random thing of narrow deer that has popped up as they put up a fence and tried to shoot those genetics out...finally said to heck with it and moved their fence somewhere else that wasn't a lost cause for what they were wanting)....it is not county wide as there are some flat out big deer in the northern part of the county where the habitat is a little different. F-Lake has been managed just like Boggy and Scrappin' and has been around as long as both. Narrow is just the name of the game down there along the river.

Man you live in a different world! I personally find it offensive that people like you tell us, who live and hunt here in e.tx that we dont know what we are talking about when it comes to the deer numbers and what our area will support and genitics and everything else that goes with ar restrictions and bag limits. In other words if ya dont live in e.tx and hunt there you aint got a clue!

I'm just trying to help you understand the problem, Hoytman. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

God I apologize for starting all this.

there is no solution to this made up problem

I think you're the one in despirate need of some understanding buddy.
A big problem is you always telling others that they are the problem, instead of what really is:
The root of all evil:
ARs.
I didn't join the THF until ARs were implimented. I got to thinking, was there constant bickereing on the THF about hunting regulations before ARs were invented or was everything pretty much peaceful in the THF deer hunting community?

we have a winner! there never was a true, real, honest to goodness problem to begin with.

If you look around the table and can't find the sucker, it's you.

Just trying to keep everyone honest with the laws of the land, folks. They aren't exactly passed for injust reasons, unless of course you hate America.

I dug this up in a recently discovered history book written by one of Davey Crockett's decendants:
American Indians were making it just fine without ARs, then here comes the white man. They moved in, sent the American Indians to tiny reservations and imposed ARs. The American Indians wouldn't stand for it, so they opened up casinos in Oklahoma and became rich. Thank goodness they now no longer have to hunt for a living and instead are now laughing at the white man and his stupid AR law.