This is for DSP56

Thanks Tye ! That is the smartest sig line ever.

Cpack,
I dont have a deer herd, I have state owned and managed deer that happen to cross, like visiting or live or the land I lease.
When I kill one, then and only then does it becomes mine.
I don't want to get rid of anything, I want more deer of any quality, period.
Antlers don't mean much to me, though we both would like to shoot a bigun somewhere sometime before we die.

Bag limit problem? Age problem? Talk to them? We've tried talking to them the other neighbors have tried too for years.
Works for me so I dont care about you.
Their free hunting member biologist and TPWD just cant be wrong. AR's and MLD's are the best thing ever for deer hunting.
We can kill more now than ever, thats gotta be good even if the population is in a nose dive.
These "managed" properties are the brown its down crew.
I imagine this one small area of one county is not the only area to have a similar problem with the system being twisted.

What my area needs is revocation of all MLD programs reduction in bag limits from 5 deer to 2 or 3 deer at most.
Landowners that will set strict harvest rules for their property and neighbors that actually have a clue.
May be go as far as to introduce some seed bucks and doe from areas surpassing their CC.
The season being closed for a year or two.
Make the antler restriction to protect (illegal to take) any buck with brow tines or outside his ears or over 13" for 2-3 years
Of course these changes would outrage 95% of the rest of the county.

IMO The state is allowing gross mismanagement to take place. Wether it is caused by landowners, hunters, AR's or MLD makes no difference to me. TPWD governs them all when it comes to hunting/fishing regs.

wash your truck while you're at it....we need some rain.

Cpack,
I dont have a deer herd, I have state owned and managed deer that happen to cross, like visiting or live or the land I lease.
When I kill one, then and only then does it becomes mine.
I don't want to get rid of anything, I want more deer of any quality, period.
Antlers don't mean much to me, though we both would like to shoot a bigun somewhere sometime before we die.

Bag limit problem? Age problem? Talk to them? We've tried talking to them the other neighbors have tried too for years.
Works for me so I dont care about you.
Their free hunting member biologist and TPWD just cant be wrong. AR's and MLD's are the best thing ever for deer hunting.
We can kill more now than ever, thats gotta be good even if the population is in a nose dive.
These "managed" properties are the brown its down crew.
I imagine this one small area of one county is not the only area to have a similar problem with the system being twisted.

What my area needs is revocation of all MLD programs reduction in bag limits from 5 deer to 2 or 3 deer at most.
Landowners that will set strict harvest rules for their property and neighbors that actually have a clue.
May be go as far as to introduce some seed bucks and doe from areas surpassing their CC.
The season being closed for a year or two.
Make the antler restriction to protect (illegal to take) any buck with brow tines or outside his ears or over 13" for 2-3 years
Of course these changes would outrage 95% of the rest of the county.

IMO The state is allowing gross mismanagement to take place. Wether it is caused by landowners, hunters, AR's or MLD makes no difference to me. TPWD governs them all when it comes to hunting/fishing regs.

MLD harvest numbers are set using actual deer counts. We have to do and submit a helicopter survey every year to get our tags, and those tags come with "recommendations" even down to the number of each age class of buck that we need to kill. Are you saying that you think they are lying on their counts to get more tags?

You just had to go and bring this back up didnt ya. You know Cpack wont be able to sleep tonight worrying about of this AR stuff.

MLD harvest numbers are set using actual deer counts. We have to do and submit a helicopter survey every year to get our tags, and those tags come with "recommendations" even down to the number of each age class of buck that we need to kill. Are you saying that you think they are lying on their counts to get more tags?

Curly....Curly....Curly....Curly.... CURLY!!!

The last MLD program I was on, the biologist was too swamped to do all of them in his area and had the landowner and/or us do the game counts ourselves. The landowner was real proud of his place and really inflated his numbers. He did all of them the first year and we got ridiculous numbers of does to kill.

Second year, he did one, we did one (which came in much lower), then we did one together. We found out what the discrepancy was during the third.....he was counting every set of eyes he saw as a deer......including THE CATTLE on the place.

out of office reply......

our dear friend and club leader, Curly, is in the woods in search of a deer (hopefully).

Trust me CPACK is well aware of how MLD harvest numbers, surveys and tag allotment is managed. And that is his point exactly, if your numbers and population are so low then how in the world are the TPWD officials recommending vast number of tags. You stated yourself that the population was down in your area and everyone including the game wardens know it. Therefore if everyone knows it then the MLD recommended harvest numbers should be much lower to reflect the "nose diving" population in your area. Unless the helicopter survey numbers and other survey numbers are skued to reflect a rising populations.

These "managed" properties are the brown its down crew.

lol....on that 15000 I referred to that was hard to find deer on at night, we always had over 200 does/yr to kill (upper 200s in some years). Out of the 60 members that were on it when I got on, only about 15 of those are still hunting there. The place went from a great place to hunt and see lots of bucks with deer regularly getting shot in the 150s-160s, to not a whole lot to choose from and being lucky to see 1 4.5yr old buck a year, vs. seeing several in one sitting and passing on them. The same mgmt strategy spilled over onto the bordering 8K acre and 5K acre leases a cpl years after and the deer #s have gone down so much it's not even worth paying the $1000 for those other 2 leases because even 3.5yr olds are hard to come by....roll on down the road a ways where the leases go with a one buck limit and limited doe harvests and those are the places now we are seeing big deer shot consistantly on. Across the county where the big MLD3 leases are, they get their doe harvest numbers and don't really care if they shoot 1/3 of them because the size of bucks on the places give them justification to keep spending $3-5K/yr (which is a pretty penny for the area) for lease memberships.

We are MLD3, we do an annual helicopter survey, submit it, get our harvest numbers, follow them to a T, and are having fantastic results. Do we see as many deer? No, but that's kind of the point. The deer we do see are healthy, and the bucks are getting bigger. Fawn recruitment is up, and the range is in better shape. I'm thinking there may be something suspect in the programs you are describing...a hole somewhere.

lol....on that 15000 I referred to that was hard to find deer on at night, we always had over 200 does/yr to kill (upper 200s in some years). Out of the 60 members that were on it when I got on, only about 15 of those are still hunting there. The place went from a great place to hunt and see lots of bucks with deer regularly getting shot in the 150s-160s, to not a whole lot to choose from and being lucky to see 1 4.5yr old buck a year, vs. seeing several in one sitting and passing on them. The same mgmt strategy spilled over onto the bordering 8K acre and 5K acre leases a cpl years after and the deer #s have gone down so much it's not even worth paying the $1000 for those other 2 leases because even 3.5yr olds are hard to come by....roll on down the road a ways where the leases go with a one buck limit and limited doe harvests and those are the places now we are seeing big deer shot consistantly on. Across the county where the big MLD3 leases are, they get their doe harvest numbers and don't really care if they shoot 1/3 of them because the size of bucks on the places give them justification to keep spending $3-5K/yr (which is a pretty penny for the area) for lease memberships.

I help manage a ranch under MLD3, and if we only shot 1/3 of our does, we would have to have a really good excuse for our TPWD agent. If we did it again, I'm pretty sure we would be invited not to participate in that program anymore. He has made it pretty clear that his "recommendations" are more than "recommendations". He puts his trust in us that we do the surveys right, and we put are trust in him that he does his math right. There is very little variance in the survey numbers from year to year, so I'm pretty sure our guy knows what he's doin. I don't know what goin on in yall's area, sounds strange to me.

I help manage a ranch under MLD3, and if we only shot 1/3 of our does, we would have to have a really good excuse for our TPWD agent. If we did it again, I'm pretty sure we would be invited not to participate in that program anymore. He has made it pretty clear that his "recommendations" are more than "recommendations". He puts his trust in us that we do the surveys right, and we put are trust in him that he does his math right. There is very little variance in the survey numbers from year to year, so I'm pretty sure our guy knows what he's doin. I don't know what goin on in yall's area, sounds strange to me.

Look guys if you dont like the ar's then get on the mld program. It was intended to stop the bubbas from blowing up the woods. The amount of mature deer that dont reach 13" is very small compared to the rest of the herd so stop whining about the one narrow one that got away. Its a good program and it helps the rest of us guys that have been doing things the right way for years.