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Poaching Fines Question #1841510 11/17/10 06:02 PM
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vernon1984 Offline OP
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A deer that I had been getting on camera alot got shot out of season and I was wondering what the ol boy who shot it would have to pay. I have been told that the state charges by the inch but how much is it. The deer had 23 pts 20.5 wide and double drops and had tha most mass i have ever seen on a deer. It wouldn't suprise me one bit if he hit the 170 mark. If anyone knows about how much it would be let me know.


Re: Poaching Fines Question [Re: vernon1984] #1841520 11/17/10 06:04 PM
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There is a fine and then a value for the animal. It should be pretty hefty and then some would be my guess.


Re: Poaching Fines Question [Re: vernon1984] #1841527 11/17/10 06:08 PM
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Did you find the rack? Just wondering if your measurements were accurate or guesstimates? How do you know it was shot out of season, do you know who got it?


Re: Poaching Fines Question [Re: TxYoteHunter] #1841536 11/17/10 06:12 PM
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There is NO way of knowing that question.


Re: Poaching Fines Question [Re: Brother in-law] #1841556 11/17/10 06:17 PM
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The antlers/head/animal would need to be recovered before a restitution value is set. Its not clear how they determine value.
Click here---> TPWD Criminal Penalties and Civil Value Recovery

Report it and you could get up to $1000 reward. ---> Operation game theft


Last edited by Rustler; 11/17/10 06:23 PM.
Re: Poaching Fines Question [Re: Rustler] #1841985 11/17/10 08:13 PM
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cmc Offline
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As far as I know the fine is determined by the age of the deer. Replacement cost of a big buck would be less than that of a 1.5 year old doe. Ive been told.


Re: Poaching Fines Question [Re: cmc] #1842058 11/17/10 08:31 PM
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vernon1984 Offline OP
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I have seen pics and talked to the game warden and the game warden has the rack. He wouldn't tell me anything but from what I gathered from people is that the deer was shot about a week before the season and got caught becasue he put pic's on facebook and was bragging about it around town.


Re: Poaching Fines Question [Re: vernon1984] #1842113 11/17/10 08:44 PM
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well if the gw is processing the case, he wont give up that info since they are probably on their way to jail.


Re: Poaching Fines Question [Re: vernon1984] #1842118 11/17/10 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted By: vernon1984
I have seen pics and talked to the game warden and the game warden has the rack. He wouldn't tell me anything but from what I gathered from people is that the deer was shot about a week before the season and got caught becasue he put pic's on facebook and was bragging about it around town.
You wouldnt by chance have some pics to show us would you?


Re: Poaching Fines Question [Re: JackJustice] #1842181 11/17/10 09:00 PM
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redmist220 Offline
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Got caught because he put pic's on facebook and was bragging about it around town. I'm sorry but can you say dumb-A##


Re: Poaching Fines Question [Re: redmist220] #1842246 11/17/10 09:09 PM
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I had a buddy, well more of just an acquaintance than a buddy, that got caught a couple of years ago taking a big buck off another ranch. The buck scored 175 and the civil restitution from the state was $9,999. That's what he had to pay to the state, he had to pay a lot more for the actual criminal charges. Thats a lot of money for a split second decision


Last edited by Icouldbeyou; 11/17/10 09:10 PM.

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Re: Poaching Fines Question [Re: Icouldbeyou] #1842325 11/17/10 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted By: Icouldbeyou
I had a buddy, well more of just an acquaintance than a buddy, that got caught a couple of years ago taking a big buck off another ranch. The buck scored 175 and the civil restitution from the state was $9,999. That's what he had to pay to the state, he had to pay a lot more for the actual criminal charges. Thats a lot of money for a split second decision


I got no sympathy for that guy! he should also be whip ed!



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Re: Poaching Fines Question [Re: Icouldbeyou] #1842334 11/17/10 09:29 PM
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There were a few threads about a big buck poached in San Angelo last year that listed the fine. That buck scored 185 and the fine was around $15,000 I think.


Re: Poaching Fines Question [Re: KennyLee] #1842341 11/17/10 09:31 PM
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Sucks to be them , aint no deer worth that kind of money! imo!


Re: Poaching Fines Question [Re: redmist220] #1842544 11/17/10 10:25 PM
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I had no sympathy for him or anyone else that does something like that. It aint that hard to do the right thing, and not break the law. Wish that the justice system would hit that hard for some other crimes


Last edited by Icouldbeyou; 11/18/10 12:56 AM.

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Re: Poaching Fines Question [Re: Icouldbeyou] #1844674 11/18/10 05:02 PM
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Do you know the guy that shot this deer out of season??


Re: Poaching Fines Question [Re: turkeyfantic] #1844960 11/18/10 06:22 PM
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vernon1984 Offline OP
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turkeyfanatic- No I do not know him but from what everyone tells me it was just down the road from our house.

JackJustice- I do have a couple of pics of the deer through text message but cant get them on the computer.


Re: Poaching Fines Question [Re: vernon1984] #1844989 11/18/10 06:30 PM
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Dacotua Offline
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Originally Posted By: vernon1984
turkeyfanatic- No I do not know him but from what everyone tells me it was just down the road from our house.

JackJustice- I do have a couple of pics of the deer through text message but cant get them on the computer.


*IF YOU DONT HAVE PROOF*, let it drop. A Game Warden isn't going to do anything UNLESS YOU HAVE PROOF. Fact is, if you push it, and don't have proof, the guy probably can get you arrested for Harrasing a Hunter (Class B Mis).


Re: Poaching Fines Question [Re: Dacotua] #1845271 11/18/10 07:52 PM
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A guy I grew up with poached a 190 class buck off a high fence ranch in Ellis county. He took pictures with it and sent it to many people in his phone. One of those people just happened to forward it to the game warden. Idiot. The poacher actually did some time over the deal, not sure how or why. Probably because he was already in the pen when the warden made the case. He got out of jail and then went back when he pleaded guilty in the poaching case.

And even better...how did the warden confirm the identity of the deer? He took a picture of a euro mount on the guy's wall through the front window of his living room. The warden just waited patiently til he could get in to claim the horns so he didn't have to break in.....he already made his case



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Re: Poaching Fines Question [Re: TxAggie10] #1845370 11/18/10 08:17 PM
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Knew a guy down here that poached a big ole buck (170's) from the local powerplant land, then the dumbass entered it in the big buck contest.

Problem is these deer are like pets, everyone knows about them and goes out and takes pics of them. The local GW knows all of the bucks out there.

Well of course the local GW was at the taxi checking out all the entries to the big buck contest lol. They took it from him and i believe he did a little bit of time and paid like a $12,000 fine.


Re: Poaching Fines Question [Re: Texas Heat] #1845482 11/18/10 08:46 PM
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This was posted on another forum a while back

Quote:
TPWD Deer Restitution

Texas Administrative Code


TITLE 31 NATURAL RESOURCES AND CONSERVATION
PART 2 TEXAS PARKS AND WILDLIFE DEPARTMENT
CHAPTER 69 RESOURCE PROTECTION
SUBCHAPTER B FISH AND WILDLIFE VALUES
RULE §69.30 Trophy Wildlife Species

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(a) The recovery value for individual white-tailed or mule deer, pronghorn antelope, and bighorn sheep shall be derived from the gross Boone and Crockett score of the horns or antlers plus the value derived for wildlife species in §69.22 of this title (relating to Wildlife--Recovery Values), using the following formulae:

(1) White-tailed deer--The formula for white-tailed deer shall be applied to all individuals whose gross score exceeds 100 Boone and Crockett inches. The formula shall be: Recovery Value = ((gross score - 100) 2 x $1.65) plus the value derived in §69.22 of this title.

(2) Mule deer--The formula for mule deer shall be applied to all individuals whose gross score exceeds 110 Boone and Crockett inches. The formula shall be: Recovery Value = ((gross score - 110) 2 x $1.00) plus the value derived in §69.22 of this title.

(3) Pronghorn antelope--The formula for pronghorn antelope shall be applied to all individuals whose gross score exceeds 40 Boone and Crockett inches. The formula shall be: Recovery Value = ((gross score - 40)2 x $2.00) plus the value derived in §69.22 of this title.

(4) Bighorn sheep--The formula for bighorn sheep shall be applied to all individuals whose gross score exceeds 100 Boone and Crockett inches. The formula shall be: Recovery Value = ((gross score - 100) 2 x $11.70) plus the value derived in §69.22 of this title.

(b) The measurement procedure for obtaining the Boone and Crockett gross score shall follow: Nesbitt, W.H. and P.L. Wright. 1985. Measuring and Scoring North American Big Game Trophies. Boone and Crockett Club. 176 pp.

(Here's the 69.22 section that you add to the values posted:)



Texas Administrative Code
Next Rule>>
TITLE 31 NATURAL RESOURCES AND CONSERVATION
PART 2 TEXAS PARKS AND WILDLIFE DEPARTMENT
CHAPTER 69 RESOURCE PROTECTION
SUBCHAPTER B FISH AND WILDLIFE VALUES
RULE §69.22 Wildlife--Recovery Values
(a) Each species of bird, reptile, amphibian, or animal shall be assigned a score of 0-3 for each of eight scoring criteria. The sum of the scores for the eight criteria (subsection (b) of this section) shall be multiplied by a weighting factor (subsection (c) of this section), and the resulting adjusted criteria score is compared to the monetary scale (subsection (d) of this section) to obtain a monetary value.

(b) For scoring criteria listed in paragraphs (1)-(8) of this subsection, a species which is not sought at all shall be scored as 0, while a highly sought species shall be scored 3.

(1) Recreation. The extent to which a species is actively sought by users with wildlife interests. Scoring considers both harvest and nonharvest use of a species.

(2) Aesthetic. The social value of wildlife species. These values represent wildlife species' beauty or unique natural history. Aesthetic values for these species exist whether or not a person ever would encounter one in its natural habitat.

(3) Educational. The educational value of a species arising from, for example, published materials and other audio-visual media about the species, displays in zoos, or the relative frequency with which the species is used to exemplify important curricula principles.

(4) Scarcity. The relative population of a species within the range of its habitat, from abundant to scarce.

(5) Environmental Tolerance. The ability of a species to tolerate normal changes in climate, topography, water regimes or other ecological factors which may limit range and population.

(6) Economics. The direct or indirect economic benefit attributable to the species as a result of recreational or legal transactions.

(7) Recruitment. Reproductive and survival potential of a species as it relates to the capability for replacement of its population following decrease or loss.

(8) Ecological role. A species' relationships with other life forms--and the species contribution to a healthful and stable balance of nature. Widely-consumed forage species score high, as do predators which control prey species populations. Forage species that are not widely consumed score low, as do predators which contribute little to regulation of prey populations.

(c) The individual scores for the criteria are summed to derive a total criteria score. The total criteria score is multiplied by a weighting factor which adjusts the summed criteria score for variance in public demand and/or perception of value for a species. The weighting factor relates the overall demand for a species to its existing supply and to future opportunity for public use. The weighting factors are:

(1) 1.0--Abundant. No additional public demand or perception of value exists beyond that reflected by the eight criteria in subsection (b) of this section;

(2) 1.1--Frequent. Minor disparity exists between resource availability and public interest and the public demand fluctuates periodically around an equilibrium point;

(3) 1.3--Rare. Substantial disparity exists between available supply and identified public interest in species that are subject to ongoing management programs;

(4) 1.5--Scarce. The species populations are never expected to meet identified demands or needs, or management programs for a limited species are not fully developed with respect to planned recreational opportunity and economic contribution.

(d) The total criteria score multiplied by the weighting factor in subsections (a)-(c) of this section, provides an adjusted criteria score and corresponding recovery value for each species.

Adjusted Criteria

Score Range


Monetary Value

1 - 5.9 = $5.00

6 - 8.9 = $13.50

9 - 10.9 = $26.00

11 - 12.9 = $59.50

13 - 14.9 = $105.50

15 - 16.9 = $273.50

17 - 18.9 = $881.50

19 - 20.9 = $1,929.50

21 - 23.9 = $4,780.50

24 - 36.9 = $11,907.50




Originally Posted By: WMI report
"If age structure is deemed to be valuable to management,...What percentage change in age structure or condition does TPWD recognize that it needs to detect in order to trigger a regulatory change?

confused2TPWDconfused2
Re: Poaching Fines Question [Re: PHishTX] #1845516 11/18/10 08:56 PM
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Heck talking about poaching, I knew some fellows (didnt know they were doing this till they were busted) that would get dropped off near big ranches for 2 days and shoot 180 + deer and cut heads for mounts to sell to rich folks. They got busted after a couple of years. Now they raise deer for breeding and sell them... little strange to me....


Re: Poaching Fines Question [Re: JackJustice] #1845850 11/18/10 10:08 PM
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vernon1984 Offline OP
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Dacotua- I'm not trying to get anyone in trouble by any means I just was wondering about the fine, the only reason I called the game warden was becasue I was told that he had the horns and I wanted to know if it was the deer that I had been hunting; becaseu if it was I didn't want to waist a whole season and pass some other good bucks. To me I'm not trying to get anyone in trouble thats another reason why I don't want to put the pic on here becasue the guy who shot him is in the pic.


Re: Poaching Fines Question [Re: vernon1984] #1846092 11/18/10 11:12 PM
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Besides facing the glowing embers of perdition, here is how it can all add up on a poacher:

Jail time, plus criminal fine, plus civil restitution, plus forfeiture of the equipment used in the crime (truck, rifle, etc.), plus never being able to get another hunting license, plus if convicted of a felony not being able to possess a firearm ever again.

It just ain't worth it.


Re: Poaching Fines Question [Re: Dacotua] #1846131 11/18/10 11:28 PM
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Originally Posted By: Dacotua

*IF YOU DONT HAVE PROOF*, let it drop. A Game Warden isn't going to do anything UNLESS YOU HAVE PROOF. Fact is, if you push it, and don't have proof, the guy probably can get you arrested for Harrasing a Hunter (Class B Mis).


He needs no proof he just reports all the information he has. It's the GW's job to validate the complaint and find proof if it exists.

That's what operation game theft is all about, a way to report suspected illegal activity's relating to hunting/fishing.

No way to be charged with anything for reporting a poacher.

Guilty conscious?


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