More man then me he would have been picking up some teeth and the pieces of his gun after I smashed it

I would have gave him a whopping in front of his son to let him know what an azz his dad was. Having him beaten and shamed in front of his son should be worth about $1200 in retribution.

Awww, hell no!!!

He doesn't get to keep the deer, and he pays...$1200 isn't near enough!!

He doesn't agree, file charges...

kik his azz seabass

File charges?

Okay, what are the charges?

As has been stated ad nauseum on this board, the State owns the deer. As long as he wasn't trespassing and had a license, he didn't do anything illegal.

Unethical? Yes. In downright poor moral character? You bet.

But there's really not any legal course of action here. The land owner didn't own the deer.

I would double the $1200 since he was there to shoot does only and did not pay attention to the rules you gave him and brought his son along without asking.

Hi DuctTape - seems to me you left the above statement out of your original story - Did you really tell them BEFORE the hunt that if they take a buck they'll have to get their own ride home? All other things aside, 'Find a ride home if they shot a buck' doesn't equate to 'you'll have to pay $1200, or 'I'll report you to the warden for poaching (taking game without landowners permission)', the later two of which would have been fairly clear to the guest. Maybe the guy was more than happy to find his own way home, just for the chance to take that trophy buck! I'd be more than happy to find my own ride home if that was the only consequence stated to me before a hunt! You are not going to collect a penny from this guy, lawyer or not. I think you learned a hard lesson on this one.

There is no excuse for this. first off, I would confront the coach and ask him how he could be friends with someone like this. then i would tell the coach that the two of you, together, are going to go over to the guys house and have a talk.

another thing, $1200 is what you would charge if you were charging for hunts. but you werent charging for hunts, because you wanted to hunt that deer, not let someone else. so it should be more than $1200. I would tell him that, and that he would not be keeping the deer, and ask him what he planned on doing about it to make it right. then i would ask the coach the same question. and lay it on him about what kind of example he was setting for his son.

but first i would ask him why he disrespected you and your family and your rules. because that is the biggest thing. I would not let this go and just "learn a lesson" as so many people suggest. true, you might not see your money, and it probably isn't worth the hassle monetarily, but it darn sure is worth it as far as principal goes. I would at least make sure i talked to this guy face to face soon.
it is too bad that this kind of thing happens, and don't blame yourself for the actions of others.

Very unfortunate situattion for sure...On the lease I was on for 16 years we DID allow guests...but they were an extension of the lease members tag. We allowed one mature buck, and one cull along with however many does were allowable. IF a member brought a guest, it was THAT members responsibility to ensure the guest was informed of what he was allowed to shoot. ALL were encouraged to lay down the "law" to the guest WITH a witness. That would help prevent the "oh...I didn't know" stories. If the guest took a mature buck or cull, it came off of the lease members allowance...meaning he could not shoot whatever his guest took off of his allotted amount. IF the member already shot a mature buck AND the guest did as well, then we held the lease member accountable. He then owed us a years lease cost as restitution and it was up to him to settle with the guest...at $1500 a year, EVERYONE made sure that what few guests there were, they ABSOLUTELY KNEW what they were allowed to shoot. We had the guest policy written into the body of the lease each member signed so we had no issues...and no misunderstandings if an event such as your occurred.

I can assure you though on my lease knowing the guys I hunted with for so long...right or wrong...if your situation occured on our lease, and the guest refused to pony up the cash to the member after being informed....in almost EVERY case, there would have been an absolutely, positively all afternoon butt whoopin on the guy that blatantly ignored the rule...cuz the lease member then owed us the $1500 and I know the disposition of those guys if wronged in such a way.

A couple random and mebbe unrelated thoughts occur to me after reading all 4 pages of this thread. Over the years I have been invited many times to hunt as a guest either by family, or customers, or even my customers customers, and re invited again because I followed what ever was stated as "The Rules".

In Texas, if I remember my attorney correctly, an oral agreement is as binding as a written Agreement under Contract Law...especially one witnessed by others.

Do you REALLY trust either the coach you initailly invited - who did not shoot a buck in this narrative - or the POS who actually killed the big buck in question to TEACH your son or even AT your son's school NOT to take it out on your son, even via another non involved teacher using a some sort of whisper campaign?

Can you publicize all the details of this incident in your local news media ... and name names & details without incurring any blowback from any OTHER source - like a church! or social/fraternal group like the Boy Scouts or a off campus sports club like a competitive Classic League soccer team or even the League's referee's - that would affect your son?

Are you willing to file Civil Suits against the POS, get a judgement, and report the judgement to all 3 Credit Bureau's? May take the POS's signing a Promisory Note for "reimbursment of services or some similar language to get it done.

Me Myself ...AFTER I got paid the paltry non punitive amount you named, I'd want the POS's job put in question with a morals complaint to the School Board about his "theft by conversion" in breaking the agree'd upon NO BUCK's Contract, BUT FIRST I'd want to make double sure that the POS or even in the initial coach invited had NO, NOT ANY, ZERO contact or input in school concerning my child in any shape form or fashion even to the point of asking the ISD to have him or both of them re assigned to another school. I'd want to make an example of this POS to every other teacher and school official in that ISD that a Contract is a Contract. If LEO's can fired for writing a hot check, stealing small amounts even under $500 which I think are still Misdemeanor's...I'd think your $1200 valuation of the theft is a State Felony charge.

You stated he said " ...thought about it and just could not help myself " sounds like he has a low morals issue and might be capable of doing the same thing in another setting...like looking at a 15-16 year old who looks & dress's like a 25 year hooker...Saw it happen with a 17 year old friend & the head track coach at my high school in the early '60's whose name is still revered statewide these days. MY ISD got him out of my HS the next year and no one ever knew any better...'cept a handful of us super close to the 17 year old.


I've seen & personally been involved with coaches and teachers, and even my local & and an ADJACENT city police department hierarchy's playing the payback game concerning one of my own son's and recourse is not easy or cheap in your own attorney fee's required ...so make sure you can make sure you protect your family from "interested or vested interest ISD & LEO officials" upstream from the POS trying to protect their own turf & fiefdom's reputation at the expense of your son's well being and school career. Trust me ...teachers & coach's have also have a "Blue Wall of Silence just like LEO's.
JMHO & YMMV
Ron

Yes, Texas has a verbal agreement law but it's a tough one to prove in court if the one party involved does not admit to agreeing to anything and the 3rd party involved does not validate your side of the story. To all the tough guys on here who talk about getting the money back ($1,200 and then some) one way or another, I guess you would be willing to spend more on lawyer fees defending yourself in court after he sues you for assault plus damages (missing teeth, tec). I would be mad as heck too but beating someone is a bit ridiculous. And also be careful with publicizing anything in papers, that could easily get you a defamation of character or slander suit as well. Again, I would be mad and want something done but you probably need to discuss it with a lawyer and go about it from a legal perspective rather than taking things into your own hands and end up on the wrong side. Just my thoughts of course.

man... id be livid... make him pay for it.

Some say "Make him pay you some money" - others say it's not enough...you'll never collect

Some say "SUE" - others say you won't win...you CAN'T win...or it'll cost you more than it's worth

Some say "Kick is butt" - others say, No don't do that it's wrong...you'll get assault charges filed on you...not in front of his kid

Liberals say "Ban all guns, it will stop crime" - yeah like the bad guys buy their guns at Academy...

Sad world we live in today...STILL the greatest country in the world, but man some things bug me...

It seems to me that the Coach has as much responsibility as his guest does. He is the one that invited him. I would bill them both for the deer and if he didn't pay, you can turn it over to the small claims court. Cost you less than $25 and if you win he is going to have to pay you or you can get a judgement against him.

I think if you just bill him and never talk to him, nothing will happen. it would seem like a cop out on your part if you did not go confront both these people. that is what i would suggest.

He took advantage of your kindness plain and simple.
What he did was despicable, he placed so much value on a set of antlers that nothing else mattered.
You dealt with a person with antler insanity and got a hard lesson about who not to hunt with.

Antler crazed hunters cause all sorts of problems for each other and themselves, they sure give kids a poor example.
Game warden involvement for a legal killed deer, taking him to court, $100 an inch, sending a bill for $1200 ~ $5000, making him walk home, threat of or real physical violence, shallow unmarked graves, job loss, being publicly ostracized,name calling, lost friendships, lease arguments, shooting the horns off the buck, taking the buck away.
If killed and tagged legally and you remove the deer or it's head from his possession he then would be the one calling the GW.
You would be paying the fines for possessing a game animal without a wildlife resource document or transfer of wildlife resources document.

Sounds like an awful lot of drama over a deer. Antlers sure cause a lot of otherwise nice folks to have a hard time with rational thinking.

Write up a simple doe only contract for future guests, state the rules and penalties.
It really sucks you gotta do stuff like this now a days.
Worse yet is that folks don't realize they themselves suffer from antler insanity by wanting to sue, beat up or kill each other over a set of horns. Is that what you teach your kids.

Before you go thinking I'm taking his side, he was 100% in the wrong.
The deer is dead, I assume legally tagged and off the property.
Call the guy explain your disappointment in his actions. Tell him on our ranch we charge $1200 for a buck like that.
He'll either pay up or crawfish.

That is how it is on our lease, although we don't have a fine. We also REQUIRE the guest to hunt with the paying member. Furthermore, guests are not allowed to shoot bucks, only does and hogs.

Agreed!

All I know is that you need to make sure he reads this thread to see just how dang lucky he is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Actually had to work the last 24hrs and just got back on. WOW. I am disappointed that I misjudged a persons character. I am having a conversation with the Dad this afternoon. I will give you an update.

please do!!! this is kinda like a soap opera!

Maybe someone should ask a GW...but it looks to me like he took a game animal without permission. There were specific stipulations and limitations clearly stated as to what he could and could not shoot. If there is no legal recourse, then there should be. I will contact my GW and see how he would handle it, and recommends.

If you actually told them that, then that makes part of the verbal agreement.

If you took this to court, the judge would laugh at you for not holding up your end of the bargin - Your OWN words!
You get nothing else- nada!

Man this situation sucks dude, I feel extremely bad for you. I would definately talk to the guy and see how much of a man he really is and see if he will make an attempt to make things right.

Unfortunately, this quote screwed you from recourse.