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Feb 7th, 2025
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 Friday Afternoon Stirring the Pot Thread
#1731829
10/08/10 05:06 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,131
postoak
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Just how much difference in end result is there likely to be between raising a breeder buck in a pasture (pen) and in letting one go on a high fence place, if the high fence place has feeders and food plots, predator reduction, a management program, and plenty of water?
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Re: Friday Afternoon Stirring the Pot Thread
[Re: postoak]
#1731838
10/08/10 05:11 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,470
BenBob
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,470 |
What end result are we talking about?
Tired, Wired, and Uninspired
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Re: Friday Afternoon Stirring the Pot Thread
[Re: BenBob]
#1731850
10/08/10 05:17 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,131
postoak
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I am talking about antler size. Say you cleared out all deer from the HF, and released some breeder stock in there. Would the bucks that grew from that stock have antlers the same size as ones grown in a small pasture?
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Re: Friday Afternoon Stirring the Pot Thread
[Re: postoak]
#1731858
10/08/10 05:20 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461
rifleman
Sparkly Pants
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Sparkly Pants
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461 |
no they wouldn't...less stress on the ones in the small pasture...less does to worry about....way less chances of injury that will cause rack deformation, etc. Lot more chances being taken on a large HF place than keeping one kenneled up.
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Re: Friday Afternoon Stirring the Pot Thread
[Re: BenBob]
#1731871
10/08/10 05:23 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 7,304
Big Tony
THF Trophy Hunter
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Years ago, a famous food plot company in Alabama had several 100 acre "pens" to research the food plots and monitor Deer developement. Their employee who feed and maintained the herds, found a skull with antlers still attsched of a 8 1/2 year old Buck that scored over 200". He had worked there for over 11 years. Had been in all those pens many times. He knew every Deer in every pen and had never seen that Buck. They had no pictures of him. (game cams weren't known at that time) They had still photos of every Deer. Exept that one. The only thing about HF that I am opposed to is, the Deer that are trapped when the fence goes up, are now off limits to the general public.
"A hunt based only on trophies taken, falls far short of what the ultimate goal should be." -Fred Bear
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Re: Friday Afternoon Stirring the Pot Thread
[Re: Big Tony]
#1731889
10/08/10 05:29 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461
rifleman
Sparkly Pants
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Sparkly Pants
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true...but there is only a small handful of deer available for the general public in TX.
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Re: Friday Afternoon Stirring the Pot Thread
[Re: Big Tony]
#1731906
10/08/10 05:37 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296 |
Years ago, a famous food plot company in Alabama had several 100 acre "pens" to research the food plots and monitor Deer developement. Their employee who feed and maintained the herds, found a skull with antlers still attsched of a 8 1/2 year old Buck that scored over 200". He had worked there for over 11 years. Had been in all those pens many times. He knew every Deer in every pen and had never seen that Buck. They had no pictures of him. (game cams weren't known at that time) They had still photos of every Deer. Exept that one. The only thing about HF that I am opposed to is, the Deer that are trapped when the fence goes up, are now off limits to the general public. Very true but it is still his home and he knows it very well and he knows your activity well enough to hide if he thinks he needs to. He continues to breed those genetics and then batcherlors up with other bucks to show them the ropes also. Not every ranch is the same though.
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people? ![[Linked Image]](http://neoswarm.com/images/Bug_Crawling.gif)
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Re: Friday Afternoon Stirring the Pot Thread
[Re: postoak]
#1731909
10/08/10 05:38 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296 |
I am talking about antler size. Say you cleared out all deer from the HF, and released some breeder stock in there. Would the bucks that grew from that stock have antlers the same size as ones grown in a small pasture? I attended a deer seminar once where someone asked that question and the answer given was that a deer in the wild would be around 10% better in a pen. Don't know how or if they can prove it but it was what was said by Dr. Kroll.
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: Friday Afternoon Stirring the Pot Thread
[Re: stxranchman]
#1731927
10/08/10 05:44 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,131
postoak
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So, I believe the world record breeder buck was 492 (Sudden Impact). So you think 400 is possible on a HF operation?
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Re: Friday Afternoon Stirring the Pot Thread
[Re: postoak]
#1731943
10/08/10 05:49 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296 |
I doubt it seriously since it would take a huge bodied deer to do that and in this heat in Texas it just won't happen I would think. Just think of the neck muscles need to hold up 492 blood filled inches of antler. It would take a northern deer to do it. Anything is possible HF or LF, but just not in the wild of Texas with a wild born and reared deer right now.
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: Friday Afternoon Stirring the Pot Thread
[Re: rifleman]
#1731945
10/08/10 05:49 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 7,304
Big Tony
THF Trophy Hunter
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true...but there is only a small handful of deer available for the general public in TX. On my Deer lease in NW San Saba County, we are seeing fewer Deer every year. We are seeing more HF ranches every year. Are they related? I can't prove it, but I believe they are.
"A hunt based only on trophies taken, falls far short of what the ultimate goal should be." -Fred Bear
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Re: Friday Afternoon Stirring the Pot Thread
[Re: Big Tony]
#1731953
10/08/10 05:51 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296 |
true...but there is only a small handful of deer available for the general public in TX. On my Deer lease in NW San Saba County, we are seeing fewer Deer every year. We are seeing more HF ranches every year. Are they related? I can't prove it, but I believe they are. Tony are what are the numbers of fawns per doe like today as compared to before the HF? If there are less deer now, then the doe should be raising twins with more feed. If not then predation, less forage, or something else might be the factor.
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: Friday Afternoon Stirring the Pot Thread
[Re: stxranchman]
#1731973
10/08/10 05:55 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 7,304
Big Tony
THF Trophy Hunter
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Really it could be a lot of things. Last year I know for a fact we had a devisating dry spell. I used to see tons of fawns every season. We're not even seeing the fawns. 
"A hunt based only on trophies taken, falls far short of what the ultimate goal should be." -Fred Bear
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Re: Friday Afternoon Stirring the Pot Thread
[Re: Big Tony]
#1731988
10/08/10 06:00 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296 |
That is confusing but my guess would be predation. A lot of the area you are in used to sheep and goat country many years ago and they had an on going predator controll program. Less sheep and goats and more predators may be your problem long term. Are the HF ranches getting good recruitement numbers? How are fawn numbers this year?
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: Friday Afternoon Stirring the Pot Thread
[Re: stxranchman]
#1732017
10/08/10 06:07 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 7,304
Big Tony
THF Trophy Hunter
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As far as stats go for HF, I wouldn't have a clue. I do think we have a Coyote problem. That could be a major factor. Our lease has a 13 acre parcel that our landowners brother used to live on. he sold it a few years back. Now our lease is on 3 sides of this guys place. It's real funny though, I met that guy here on the THF. He seems to be a great guy. Always PM's me with rain reports and such. The very 1st thing he said to me when we met on here is, "Dude, you have a serious Coyote problem."
"A hunt based only on trophies taken, falls far short of what the ultimate goal should be." -Fred Bear
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Re: Friday Afternoon Stirring the Pot Thread
[Re: stxranchman]
#1732018
10/08/10 06:07 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,131
postoak
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So does anyone know the breeding pen buck record for Texas? What is the HF record buck for Texas?
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Re: Friday Afternoon Stirring the Pot Thread
[Re: postoak]
#1732026
10/08/10 06:10 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296 |
So does anyone know the breeder buck record for a Texas farm? What is the HF record buck for Texas? There have been several bucks in the high 300's but they are measured on the ranches by the ranches and not "officially scored". Rumor was there was a 400 on a Texas breeder place but that the guy had smuggled it in. HF record is the 300"+ buck taken this past weekend. No one else has reported a buck HF or LF that big.
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: Friday Afternoon Stirring the Pot Thread
[Re: Big Tony]
#1732031
10/08/10 06:11 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296 |
As far as stats go for HF, I wouldn't have a clue. I do think we have a Coyote problem. That could be a major factor. Our lease has a 13 acre parcel that our landowners brother used to live on. he sold it a few years back. Now our lease is on 3 sides of this guys place. It's real funny though, I met that guy here on the THF. He seems to be a great guy. Always PM's me with rain reports and such. The very 1st thing he said to me when we met on here is, "Dude, you have a serious Coyote problem." Put some trail cams out on trails and roads and on gut piles to see just how bad they are. I know they can wreck a fawn crop once they get started.
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: Friday Afternoon Stirring the Pot Thread
[Re: stxranchman]
#1732053
10/08/10 06:18 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,131
postoak
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stxranchman -- do you mean that buck, which was (as far as the ranch knows) native stock, is also the champion for imported stock Texas HF?
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Re: Friday Afternoon Stirring the Pot Thread
[Re: postoak]
#1732057
10/08/10 06:20 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296 |
If you mean he kicked all the high dollar deer breeders butts..yeah he did as far as ranch raised and managed deer. By the way all Texas pen deer that claim to be Texas deer were grandfathered into breeders in the 80's had native deer to start with so they are one in the same. Now some have used Northern deer and semen in thier pens.
Last edited by stxranchman; 10/08/10 06:22 PM.
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: Friday Afternoon Stirring the Pot Thread
[Re: stxranchman]
#1732072
10/08/10 06:24 PM
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 105
BEAVERBUSTER
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 105 |
Sorry fellows but taking animals in a pen is like playing world of warcraft on the easy level. If you really want to be an extreme hunter you need to track and face your prey on there terms.
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Re: Friday Afternoon Stirring the Pot Thread
[Re: BEAVERBUSTER]
#1732099
10/08/10 06:31 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,131
postoak
OP
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OP
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Yeah, I'm still waiting to hear that you've faced a bobcat with just a knife.
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Re: Friday Afternoon Stirring the Pot Thread
[Re: postoak]
#1732100
10/08/10 06:32 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,131
postoak
OP
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Anyway, I hunt public land. I'm just curious about these big deer.
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Re: Friday Afternoon Stirring the Pot Thread
[Re: postoak]
#1732191
10/08/10 06:53 PM
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 105
BEAVERBUSTER
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 105 |
Yeah, I'm still waiting to hear that you've faced a bobcat with just a knife. Its not on my list sir, but I might be willing to give it a try.
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Re: Friday Afternoon Stirring the Pot Thread
[Re: Big Tony]
#1732272
10/08/10 07:16 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 11,124
LandPirate
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
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Posts: 11,124 |
true...but there is only a small handful of deer available for the general public in TX. On my Deer lease in NW San Saba County, we are seeing fewer Deer every year. We are seeing more HF ranches every year. Are they related? I can't prove it, but I believe they are. Me and my family have owned property in San Saba Co. for many years (still do) and we've noticed a marked decline in the numbers of deer too. However, There are no HF ranches near us. It's all the day leases and "shoot'em all" hunters that have moved into the area. Hence the reason for the HF's. If we had the money we'd HF too. As it is our property is useless as a hunting ranch. I haven't hunted it in more than 10 years because of this.
Mike
Buda, Tx
Hunt near Freer
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