870 tactical, ext tube, holds 8 1-1/8 #9 skeet loads.
I have kids in the house and this size shot has less tendency to over penatrate.

and if the perp lives I want the ER doc to say ewwwwwww.

I'm gonna have to load up with some of those hornady TAP 12ga rounds. Gonna move the shotty next to the bed I guess, sounds like the best choice.

I do worry about overpenetration. I might have to do a little testing with different shot and some sheetrock and see what I come up with.

What is the minimal size shot that would stop a man dead in his tracks?

At home defense distances I'd think it would be difficult
to find an over the counter shotshell that didn't stop a man in his tracks.
I could be wrong, but I don't think so.

For the record my choice is also shotgun, though one of our 20ga
would be 1st up.

That's what I'm getting at, .. let's consider the typical home invasion or robbery. Your distance to target will be 30 feet or less!!, So don't think shot size @ those ranges even with a cylinder choke your whole pattern might be 8" in dia. The shot "column" is what's doing all the work.
Try shooting some skeet loads @ verious targets less that 30' you will be impressed!!

** old Marine also taught me to cut standard bird shot loads in half right by the middle of the wad. Tape over the cut one time with tape, Skt, or more open cyl. only!!! it creates a plastic fagmenting slug as the front of the shell, and the shot fly to your target as one**

I've done it a lot out of my 870, and 835's use @ your own risk!!

I also handload flachettes, but a trooper buddy of mine advised me that might fall under some kind of intrapment or curel means and get me introuble.. so I just use them for hogs....

I wouldn't use anything modified for home defense because I don't want to give ammunition so to speak to the scumbags lawyers, or even the thought of it.

If you empty your gun using plain old birdshot, and claim he just kept coming and you feared for your life, I doubt there will be much left where those hot home defense loads would make that much of a difference.

it doesn't matter if you're shooting loads of rice at them...in home invasion distances with a 12 gauge, theyre gonna be in a whole new world of hurt regardless!

#4 turkey loads.


I"ve also been told you can handload dimes (thats right, dimes) into a 12 guage and they are pretty nasty

Even if for no other reason than the opportunity
for FAILURE I think it best to just stick
with factory loaded and unmodified ammo
in a home defense gun. This ain't Hollywood.

#4 turkey loads do sound good to me.

+1

This is what I do. I keep BB and slugs on the stock and sling, but after shooting a coyote with some double A's, I almost pity the fool that enters my home... almost... ewwwwwww is right.

-ww

+1

What do the police cops use?

They go house to house. Apartments. Highly populated areas. They can be sued out of existence for shooting innocent bystanders.

I've yet to meet an officer with birdshot in his patrol shotgun. I don't want gimmicks. I don't want to what if myself into getting a butcher knife shoved in my gut up to the hilt by some meth monster whose face looks "eewwwww" but whose vital organs are still intact.

If, God forbid, I ever get into a situation where I have to defend my family with deadly force, I want the deadliest mo fo'ing force I can put my hands on. If they sold depleted uranium highly radioactive super flesh eating condensed panther urine high explosive heat seeking hippie hair grease 12 ga C4 rounds, that's what my bedside shotty would be loaded with. Until that time, it'll be 00 buck...



Plus a .45 in a lockbox near the front door!

+1

all of them

Might be looking at it a little backwards. The cops would be in the same position as the intruders.

45 for me. When I get home, my EDC comes off the hip and onto the nightstand.

Did this years ago..

Buy some outdated ribs, maybe a roast ect..
Thaw & cut in to test chunks or sections, 6x6 ect try dif. loads on real meat. Some shot penetration will impress you.

Try @ various CQB distances, some ribs in front roast behind & v.v.
In my worthless opinion I'll take apx. 700 #9's in 1-1/8oz. load.

Have a family member that is a NARC in the DFW area & I hear all the horror stories about stopping a durgged up guy with everthing from 9mm MP5's to 12ga... He tells me @ 10ft (typical distance you might engage someone) shot size counts for "zero", it could be rock salt and would more than likely shread them to bits @ typical ranges...

With all the little ones in the casa, I don't like the thought of .32cal OObuck sailing through multiple rooms..

On dimes.. tried that once.. made two shot shells standard 8 crimp, I want to say 14 dimes per shell, standard wad ect..
it's neat but like it was said above "this an't Hollywood" It does make some "neat" sounds headed down range....

Thinking about it...that case of heavy dove loads in the garage is probably plenty of bang for HD scenarios.

Did a little research about birdshot for home defense. Don't you want to put the threat down, with no chance of him firing at you or do you just want to cause a shallow non mortal wound?? I know if he has a firearm, I want to put him down where he stands, i don't think I want to give him much of a chance to fire a single round. Buckshot balls don't really penetrate as much as one would thing, they are lead and they are light!!
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot33.htm
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot14.htm

Have done the exact test before some different results... "they are lead and they are light" compaired to what metal??? bismuth?, Gold??
Also the show on the outdoor chan. did the same thing on The Best Defense with different results than the links above.

In a nutshell;

556 m855 ball -- all 4 walls penetrated. 24" flight devance from #1 to #4
556 55gr SP --- only three walls penetrated, flight devance from # 1 to #3 (bullet fragments)
and so on...
my 12a results were far different than his.. http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3_2.htm
lot of different data....

"cause a shallow non mortal wound" put a rack of dear ribs in an old sweat shirt in front of some bottle water.. shoot it a 5,10,15 ft
then tell me it won't kill someone..

Not saying I hate 00 buck and slugs AT ALL.. They're exactly what I keep in my 835 (3-1/2 000 buck..to be exact) :-) I keep one in the shop and the one in the truck. It's just inside the home I want as much shot control as possible.

I remember when I was younger shooting some 1/2" plywood with some, I think, #6 Heavy Dove Shot, the $5 a box stuff then, and it blasting holes in the plywood from 15 ft. Why wouldnt that work for home defense?

A veteran buddy of mine swears by #4 buck.

Given that penetration is the single most important variable, anything that won't go through a few bits of sheet rock is unlikely to reliably cause mortal wounds.

I think somebody needs to kill a few 200 lb hogs and do some testing for us with these loads:

-7 1/2 birdshot
-6 birdshot
-4 steel shot
-2 steel
-bb steel
-t steel

-buckshot

I cant kill hogs out here in this dry desert, so whose it gonna be?

Yes, they are lead and deform easily and slows penetration when deformed, A oo buck .33 cal weighs around 55 grains, which is light to me!! It's not like your throwing out nine or teen 200 grain solid copper or steel balls!!!
Another test
http://thetruthaboutguns.com/2010/02/robert-farago/shotgun-penetration-with-various-rounds/

Whatever goes boom. I don't think a home invader is going to ask what your packing...or how many grains it is...when it's showtime.

For personal defense and law enforcement applications, the International Wound Ballistics Association advocates number 1 buckshot as being superior to all other buckshot sizes.

Number 1 buck is the smallest diameter shot that reliably and consistently penetrates more than 12 inches of standard ordnance gelatin when fired at typical shotgun engagement distances. A standard 2 ¾-inch 12 gauge shotshell contains 16 pellets of #1 buck. The total combined cross sectional area of the 16 pellets is 1.13 square inches. Compared to the total combined cross sectional area of the nine pellets in a standard #00 (double-aught) buck shotshell (0.77 square inches), the # 1 buck shotshell has the capacity to produce over 30 percent more potentially effective wound trauma.

In all shotshell loads, number 1 buckshot produces more potentially effective wound trauma than either #00 or #000 buck. In addition, number 1 buck is less likely to over-penetrate and exit an attacker's body.

For home defense applications a standard velocity 2 ¾-inch #1 buck shotshell (16 pellet payload) from Federal, Remington or Winchester is your best choice. We feel the Federal Classic 2 ¾-inch #1 buck load (F127) is slightly better than the same loads offered by Remington and Winchester. The Federal shotshell uses both a plastic shot cup and granulated plastic shot buffer to minimize post-ignition pellet deformation, whereas the Remington and Winchester loads do not.

Second best choice is Winchester's 2 ¾-inch Magnum #1 buck shotshell, which is loaded with 20 pieces of copper-plated, buffered, hardened lead #1 buckshot. For those of you who are concerned about a tight shot pattern, this shotshell will probably give you the best patterning results in number 1 buck. This load may not be a good choice for those who are recoil sensitive.

Third choice is any standard or reduced recoil 2 ¾-inch #00 lead buckshot load from Winchester, Remington or Federal.

If you choose a reduced recoil load or any load containing hardened Magnum #00 buckshot you increase the risk of over-penetration because these innovations assist in maintaining pellet shape integrity. Round pellets have better sectional density for deeper penetration than deformed pellets.

Fourth choice is any 2 ¾-inch Magnum shotshell that is loaded with hardened, plated and buffered #4 buckshot. The Magnum cartridge has the lowest velocity, and the lower velocity will help to minimize pellet deformation on impact. The hardened buckshot and buffering granules also help to minimize pellet deformation too. These three innovations help to maximize pellet penetration. Number 4 hardened buckshot is a marginal performer. Some of the hardened buckshot will penetrate at least 12 inches deep and some will not.