Ok ive waited this long and all im gonna say is GO CURLY!!!!! LOL.

Hoytman and Hawgg, y'all are bad influences...I might be trying to turn over a new leaf. Good thing Sig hasn't chimed in on me yet.

I'm enjoying it. Opinions are like ********. The best part of this is I can actually say I am 100% right and by god I got somebody to back me. I'll determine what's right someday down the trail.

Several over 200"? Must be behind a high fence and fed protein.

I manage a deer herd... and I wouldn't say that.

It's high fenced now, but it's only been high fenced for two years.

the place had the genetics long before it was high fenced. It's also about 8,000 acres. there are probably a lot of the deer that have never seen the fence.

It takes both bucks and does to make baby deer....maybe one's no better than the other when it comes to antlers as far as actual deer population is concerned and if you have a lot of deer, you have a lot of venison to eat and a lot of deer to be choosy with when it comes to antler size, am I wrong? And please, don't hand me the "if it's brown it's down" stereotype hunter deal either because we can all legally shoot more "browns" now than ever before. So exactly how do you define the "health" of a heard...is it by the population, or by the antler size of the bucks, by the overall body stature of both bucks and does, or by the taste of the venison? Is it all based on letting the bucks mature so we can simply see how big a buck's antlers get? A small buck can mate just as good as an old buck...in fact, maybe a younger buck can tag more doe and make more babies than an old buck because possibly he has more stamina and go power? So what if his head gear may not be as pretty? It is true that an older buck will run younger bucks off but that younger one will live longer and still have a lot of unclaimed doe that he can breed as long as folks aren't killing them off, thus making more deer. Just sayin'. This is my opinion and my questions only. It was not meant to offend or attack any one particular type of deer hunter. Honest.....just sayin'.

X2 on all your answers. On the oldest deer I've shot several that were 8.5+

yeah.. even though though they have a lot of deer over 200" and live weights exceeding 220 lbs, most of them are very unhealthy... high cholesteral, heart disease, and diabetes as well...

HIV is also rampant on the ranch from an "imbalanced" buck to doe ratio leading to more buck on buck mating.

I've been trying to get him to follow the more widely accepted east texas methodology of deer management, but for some reason, he just won't listen.... pfft.... like he knows what he's doing.

How can you possibly "control" the genetics on a low fence lease. The best you can do is influence them. Nature has a way of managing who gets to breed and why.

I believe that we should have bag limits to control the population and let the deer worry about who breeds. The deer who steps out in front of a hunter (not necessarily human) has made a "mistake" and nature doesn't forgive mistakes. It is a blessing for the hunter and it insures the survival of both species.

Controlling nature what huberis.

here is a caption of a study using antlers as a predictability of future growth

Data from bucks captured from 1998–2007 indicate 3% of spike-antlered yearling bucks scored >150 GBC, while 33% of fork-antlered yearlings scored >150 at 5.5+ years old. Of 3.5 year old deer with ≤ 8 points, only 8% scored >150 GBC, compared to 37% for those with 9 or more points. For 4.5 year old bucks with ≤9 points, 5% scored >150 GBC, whereas 24% of bucks with 10 or more points scored >150.

I say and will always say,as a hole not the exception, hammer the spikes

Thats alot of 150 class deer....

Whatever happen to the days of:

Hey son look over there, that is a nice deer. Yea dad that is a nice one, I'm gonna take him. BOOM! Son great shot, mom is gonna be proud! I can't wait to get home and cook that backstrap!

Now it's hey son let me get trusty handy dandy antler measure tool so I can make sure no one laughs at us when we take it to get processed.

Hahahhah just freaking hunt people!

You can't be serious!

I'm afraid a lot of folks believe that.

actually a significantly larger number of people believe that a deer's antlers increase in width as it gets older than do those that don't believe it....

well, to say that a deer's antlers increase as it gets older (up to a point) is entirely different than saying that antler width is the best indicator of age.

To say that antler width is an indicator of age would imply some sort of correlation between age and width such as, if a deer's antler width is X then his age must be Y.

For example, this buck has a spread of 12.5", how old is he?

Very interesting and informative. Thank you for sharing those.

I would be interested in some discussion for management decisions about whether is would be better to take a big 8 point or comparable scoring 10 or 12 point which has shorter tines and/or less mass.

we've all seen the "one time at band camp" examples about the old narrow deer, but we're talking a statistical approach to the general traits of a population of 15 million +/- whitetail deer...not the outlying deer that have 12" spreads at 5 years old, which probably constitute less than 1/2 a percent of the entire deer population.

I don't believe that every year a deer's antlers will increase in width, but I do beleive that for the first 3-4 years they do.

kyle: I agree completely that most bucks' antlers will get a little wider each year until he matures.

But the OP's original question was:

"What is the single largest piece of info you use to age a whitetail?"

And Heimer's answer was:

"ANTLER WIDTH IS THE BEST INDICATOR OF AGE"

What I am saying is that if a buck walks out and the only criterion you consider is antler width, you will have no idea how old the buck really is. He could be a very young deer with a genetically wide rack, or he could be a very old deer with a genetically narrow rack.

JJH.... I don't agree with that statement...

you can't say 17" = 3 years old... etc.

I do believe that a large percentage of yearling bucks have relatively narrow racks though. On most of the leases I've been on, I can recall seeing very few yearling bucks that were wider than 13 or 14 inches.

my post was directed towards other posts that indicate antler width means nothing.

LOOKING AT STUDIES FROM TXPWD BIOLOGISTS ON FREE-RANGING DEER FROM S. TX AND THE HILL COUNTRY, ANTLER WIDTH WAS #1 INDICATOR OF AGE, MORE THAN WEIGHT, AND EVEN MASS, ALTOUGH MOST MATURE BUCKS DO HAVE EXCELLENT MASS. THAT DOESN'T MEAN IT'S THE ONLY INDICATOR. YOU HAVE TO KNOW THE DEER IN YOUR AREA AND WHAT THEY LOOK LIKE AT CERTAIN AGES AS WELL. I HAVE KILLLED A 9.5 YR OLD 10PT IN EDWARDS CO. SEVERAL YEARS AGO THAT HAD A 12" SPREAD, I DIDN'T THINK WHEN I SAW THAT BRUISER THAT HE WAS 1.5YRS OLD. I HAVE ALSO SEEN YOUNG BUCKS WITH INCREDIBLE WIDTH, BUT I KNEW THEW WERE YOUNG. THESE ARE THE EXCEPTIONS. THINK OF SOME OF THE NICEEST DEER YOU'VE SEEN, MOST ARE WIDE, BECAUSE THEY ARE MATURE.

EXACTLY!

could you share with us some of the studies that you are referring to?