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Re: need me a pistola, any suggestions? [Re: Omaney] #143204 02/01/07 12:26 AM
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sigfan what have you seen and experienced with the S&W M&P? Like I said earlier I had a sigma 40 and had more stovepipes and other mals that I more than just uncomfortable trusting that gun with. a bud of mine had the 9 and both of ours were not accurate pistols on top of malfunctions. seems like the m&p is the same gun different look and name.


Re: need me a pistola, any suggestions? [Re: crazyal] #143205 02/01/07 03:30 AM
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I understand your skepticism, I hate Sigma's too.

Actually its quite a bit different, looks are the closest thing they have in common. The Sigma's were designed/made by S&W during an age when profit was more important than function, and S&W was owned by Lear/Sigler. Don't get me wrong, Smith has its ups and downs over the years, but the Sigma was a pretty low point in my opinion.

The M&P is a completely new gun. (All them black plastic guns look alike). The slide is CNC milled from one piece, not a casting like the Sigma. The tolerances on fitted parts is the closest in the game right now. S&W invested a FORTUNE in the newest milling robots in the world of guns. Biggest difference, LIFETIME Warranty.


Re: need me a pistola, any suggestions? [Re: sig226fan (Rguns.com)] #143206 02/01/07 12:24 PM
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Give this a look, ive always wanted one. Little on the expensive side though.

http://www.magnumresearch.com/Expand.asp?ProductCode=Black-6

One bad a$$ gun for sure!!!


Re: need me a pistola, any suggestions? [Re: mike88] #143207 02/01/07 01:22 PM
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That is one COOL looking gun for sure and real pricey
I will just stick to my Tauris 40. It is paid for


Re: need me a pistola, any suggestions? [Re: John2] #143208 02/01/07 02:43 PM
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you may look at a ruger black hawk convertable. It will shoot 357mag, 38 special, or you can change the cylinder and shoot 9mm. I have one and have loved it, and changing the cylinder is very simple.


Re: need me a pistola, any suggestions? [Re: suttonco14] #143209 02/01/07 02:53 PM
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There is no single handgun caliber that will fit all needs. There is no single handgun type that will fit all needs. Determine your primary needs and buy a handgun that fits. Define your secondary needs and buy another handgun to fit. Repeat that exercise till you run out of needs or money.



Practice doesn’t make perfect.
Practice makes permanent.
Re: need me a pistola, any suggestions? [Re: suttonco14] #143210 02/01/07 07:32 PM
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Quote:

you may look at a ruger black hawk convertable. It will shoot 357mag, 38 special, or you can change the cylinder and shoot 9mm. I have one and have loved it, and changing the cylinder is very simple.





I always try to be positive, and I am positive a single action pistol is a bad choice for defensive purposes. Sorry guy, had to disagree, no offense. It may be great for you, but for most, its a poor choice. But better than a baseball bat.


Re: need me a pistola, any suggestions? [Re: sig226fan (Rguns.com)] #143211 02/01/07 08:51 PM
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I agree, sig. The correct weapon to use in any defensive situation is the one you can use well instinctively, without having to think about what you're doing. When I hunted with my Super Blackhawk and shot it extensively (as in hundreds of rounds a month), I was comfortable with it as a home defense weapon. Nowadays, though, that old FBI revolver is quite happy on my headboard or my hip.


Re: need me a pistola, any suggestions? [Re: RonKaye] #143212 02/01/07 09:05 PM
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No doubt, have customers that are CAS'ers, they'll be fine, but in general, and with the premise early of "that my wife can use", I just couldn't recommend one in good faith.

I also understand the revolver is simpler idea, but the recent schools I attend have shown the modern auto to be as reliable, easier to reload, and easier to clear when either malfunctions. If you have ever had a revolver trap a case under the star in a dark high stress environment, well, you'd be better off with a 5 iron. The gun is dead.


Re: need me a pistola, any suggestions? [Re: sig226fan (Rguns.com)] #143213 02/01/07 09:55 PM
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hey sigfan. The guy is looking for SUGGESTIONS. If he is wanting somthing with a little punch for him, but something that she could use also it may be something for him to LOOK INTO. He never said he was looking only at defensive weapons.


Re: need me a pistola, any suggestions? [Re: suttonco14] #143214 02/01/07 11:54 PM
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i like my XD springfield in .40 s&w. but i would have no problem defending my house with a ruger blackhawk



For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
Re: need me a pistola, any suggestions? [Re: txtrophy85] #143215 02/02/07 03:08 PM
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I am just giving suggestions. I have said that any weapon is a personal choice, I am just offereing my opinions, which are worth exactly what they cost.

I love Ruger Blackhawks guys. Really I do. But you can't seriously suggest a single-action revolver as a personal defense choice. They were passed up before the turn of the century, the one before last.

They are great guns. I am sure you guys are great with them. But not for a personal defense firearm. I hate to argue, really do, normally I just agree to disagree, but I can't end with, "well OK, use the single action must cock before each shot and load one at a time for personal defense" as a viable suggestion.

Most gun battles take place at about 7 feet and last about .6 seconds...I don't want someone using any of that time cocking a hammer.


Re: need me a pistola, any suggestions? [Re: sig226fan (Rguns.com)] #143216 02/02/07 09:08 PM
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don't know about you, but i would have my hammer cocked and ready as soon as the gun was in my hand. in a "gunfight" i would rather have a semi auto, but in a home defense situation where there might be one or two bad guys to deal with, i would feel fine with a ruger single action. just cause you can rattle off ten shots quickly doesn't mean you will hit the target. but yes, from a professional standpoint, you can't reccomend a single action for defense



For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
Re: need me a pistola, any suggestions? [Re: txtrophy85] #143217 02/02/07 09:40 PM
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I can't believe no-one has mentioned the CZ 75 pistol. Don't get me wrong, I have my "old 1911" under my sports-coat right now. But when I want to have fun and feel comfortable shooting multiple rounds, I always reach for my trusty CZ 75 chambered in 9mm !!!!!


.45 ACP rules in semi-auto knock-down power, but....

9mm inflicts alot of damage and lets you have fun doin' it



If the world was made of gold, man would die for a handful of dirt !!!
Re: need me a pistola, any suggestions? [Re: ThaDude] #143218 02/03/07 12:26 AM
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CZ's are good guns, underrated actually, and somewhat unknown, but good guns.

I hope ya'll all understand I ain't knocking the Rugers, got some hate mail from some that thought that, never ever said that.

Like I said I try to be temperate in my opinions, just sometime I hit the obstinate button instead.


Re: need me a pistola, any suggestions? [Re: sig226fan (Rguns.com)] #143219 02/03/07 02:41 AM
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I just bought a Colt in 38 super. I know it costs more to shoot, but it kicks like a 9 and hits like a 40. Though, I had to pass up a P226 navy edition to get it, I wish it had been in somehting other than 9mm.



As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind...Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks--Thomas Jefferson
Re: need me a pistola, any suggestions? [Re: sig226fan (Rguns.com)] #143220 02/04/07 03:45 AM
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Quote:

If you have ever had a revolver trap a case under the star in a dark high stress environment, well, you'd be better off with a 5 iron. The gun is dead.




Vernon, You have mentioned this situation before. Obviously it gave you an opinion on revolvers. But I have been shooting quite a great deal since I bought my first pistol in about 1972 and have never had a failure of any kind with a revolver period, whether single or double action.

I cannot say that about autos. I have stove-piped, or just flat jammed good clean Berettas, Colts, and my current Kimber. I haven’t had any kind of failure with a Glock or Springfield XD.

But take the number of available rounds, (high cap mags), out of the picture, and if I only had to depend on any gun firing a second shot without a failure, I will take a S&W or Colt revolver over any auto period.


Re: need me a pistola, any suggestions? [Re: DannyB] #143221 02/04/07 04:50 AM
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Quote:

Quote:

If you have ever had a revolver trap a case under the star in a dark high stress environment, well, you'd be better off with a 5 iron. The gun is dead.




Vernon, You have mentioned this situation before. Obviously it gave you an opinion on revolvers. But I have been shooting quite a great deal since I bought my first pistol in about 1972 and have never had a failure of any kind with a revolver period, whether single or double action.

I cannot say that about autos. I have stove-piped, or just flat jammed good clean Berettas, Colts, and my current Kimber. I haven’t had any kind of failure with a Glock or Springfield XD.

But take the number of available rounds, (high cap mags), out of the picture, and if I only had to depend on any gun firing a second shot without a failure, I will take a S&W or Colt revolver over any auto period.




I haven't been shooting since the 70's and sure don't have that experience level. I have been on police and military ranges since 1984, and have seen about as many failures in revolvers as with semi-autos. I wish I had documented them all, so I had scientific data to work off of.

I can see the scenario that makes a revolver popular. I can see the scenario that makes it obsolete as well. I have not had as many failures(shot and witnessed) with Sigs total as I have with Smith revolvers, total, and have shot and witnessed many many more rounds with the Sigs. Glocks have been phenominal as well. With limited exposure the XD's and Beretta's have never been bad either; its just that I have tons more experience training people with Sigs than anything else. I am sure not knocking any of them, they are all great firearms.

There's a lot of variables here. Someone mentioned beside the bed, so location/carry mode is a variable. Location and mode of carry also brings to mind number of assailants, which brings up the availability or lack thereof of assistance. These are among the myriad of things to be considered when selecting a defensive handgun (someone chastised the term defensive earlier, all handguns are defensive in my vernacular, sorry!)

The condition of the firearm, as you mentioned "clean" Beretta's, would be a variable too, as would the age and total rounds per weapon-life. It takes less grit to end the functionality of a revolver than it does a modern automatic. Failures will occur, whatever machine we choose to operate..be it a handgun or a 200 mph stock car...or a new Mercedes. I can clear a handgun quicker and easier than a revolver, and can reload much faster. Most people can learn these traits with minimal training. All of us need more practice. I haven't ever had a professional tell me they had all the practice they wanted.

I think the biggest issues are training and comfort levels, and would hope that a lot would agree on that at least. I said somewhere that I would be comfortable with an agency that mandated Glocks, Berettas, Sigs, XD's, even M&Ps. My heart still likes 1911's as well...

I will say this and hope to end the controversial part of the discussion (not here, just the PM's about it), consider as many things as possible, try as many as you can, seek input from many, and weigh that with your own knowledge, experience, and situation. Buy a good reliable modern firearm, seek a good training course from a reputable source, and practice a lot.


Re: need me a pistola, any suggestions? [Re: sig226fan (Rguns.com)] #143222 02/04/07 03:32 PM
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Vernon -
I guess it's pretty inevitable that whenever you advise against selecting a given weapon as a defensive tool, you're gonna rile those folks who happen to have chosen that weapon. Sometimes, people's need to defend their personal choices - logical or not - trumps objectivity.

While I depended on my Super Blackhawk for many years, I'd be the last one to recommend one as the ultimate defense weapon. But I shot mine enough that by the time the gun was up, the hammer was cocked. Not playing CAS-er, just technique borne of many hours' practice. Lacking that practice, I'd have been better off with something else.

I've been shooting since the early '60s, and the only failures I've ever experienced with revolvers were with a cheapie Rg and a badly abused Smith that a friend owned. Keep them clean and full of good, fresh ammo, and failure of a quality revolver is rare, to put it mildly. While modern autos have achieved a much higher degree of reliability, I still believe that all things being equal, they are more likely to malfunction than a revolver. But that's probably as much a statement of my own hard-earned bias as anything else, so while I'll continue to rely upon my FBI-issue Smith, I'll grudgingly acknowledge that others are welcome to make their own choices. I'll even try not to be smug in my assessments of their judgment! And I'll save the angry PM's for folks who push my buttons on other topics, like politics or the classification of chocolate as a major food group.



Re: need me a pistola, any suggestions? [Re: ThaDude] #143223 02/04/07 04:19 PM
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Quote:




.45 ACP rules in semi-auto knock-down power, but....

9mm inflicts alot of damage and lets you have fun doin' it





actually, the .45 isn't the baddest of the bad in a semi-auto. from what i read off of ballistics tables, the .45 is actually behind the .40 S&W in terms of energy in most loads. if you really want a big semi-auto, my buddy just bought two 10mm's, a smith and wesson and a sub-compact glock. both are hard hitting mothers. the sub kicks a bit but its not un managable



For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
Re: need me a pistola, any suggestions? [Re: RonKaye] #143224 02/04/07 04:48 PM
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Quote:

Vernon -
I guess it's pretty inevitable that whenever you advise against selecting a given weapon as a defensive tool, you're gonna rile those folks who happen to have chosen that weapon. Sometimes, people's need to defend their personal choices - logical or not - trumps objectivity.

While I depended on my Super Blackhawk for many years, I'd be the last one to recommend one as the ultimate defense weapon. But I shot mine enough that by the time the gun was up, the hammer was cocked. Not playing CAS-er, just technique borne of many hours' practice. Lacking that practice, I'd have been better off with something else.

I've been shooting since the early '60s, and the only failures I've ever experienced with revolvers were with a cheapie Rg and a badly abused Smith that a friend owned. Keep them clean and full of good, fresh ammo, and failure of a quality revolver is rare, to put it mildly. While modern autos have achieved a much higher degree of reliability, I still believe that all things being equal, they are more likely to malfunction than a revolver. But that's probably as much a statement of my own hard-earned bias as anything else, so while I'll continue to rely upon my FBI-issue Smith, I'll grudgingly acknowledge that others are welcome to make their own choices. I'll even try not to be smug in my assessments of their judgment! And I'll save the angry PM's for folks who push my buttons on other topics, like politics or the classification of chocolate as a major food group.





Well said. Spoken like a true gentleman. I don't even get into politics much, no reason for me to debate it, I can't change and I don't think I ever changed anyone else. I'll answer direct questions about anything though.

On guns, I think I will start noting failures on our range and on others that I see. I also think that you are right that cleanliness is important, in all of them. Guess I have just been around a different "caliber" of revolvers over the years.

On the chocolate issue, are you for including it as a food group or against?

How about counting a coors light or two as part of your recommended daily allowance of grains and water?

Now there are some topics worth debating. As long as my wife is not here.

BTW, I just bought a Smith and Wesson revolver...really! Still got the sigs, just wanted this one for old times sake!


Re: need me a pistola, any suggestions? [Re: sig226fan (Rguns.com)] #143225 02/04/07 05:21 PM
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Re: chocolate... IMHO, a day spent without any chocolate is a day wasted. That answer your question?

Not big on the Coors light... However, I spent 6 months touring Mexico on a BMW many years ago, and developed a real fondness for Dos Equis.

My S&W wasn't a purchase. A client we'd written a book for (and who taught classes to FBI agents) was presented it by an FBI section chief, and gave it to me as a bonus. While some S&W 13-3's (bull barrel) are available on auctions, most are refurbed FBI guns that have been pretty well shot out. Mine was never fired until I got it. Sweet shooter, with a tuned, staged trigger.

BTW - What model Smith did you get?


Re: need me a pistola, any suggestions? [Re: RonKaye] #143226 02/05/07 03:17 AM
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Its a 442 that I bought from a great guy here. Got a good deal and have practiced enough to be comfortable carrying it some.

I am getting old. As much as I want the Sig, sometimes I leave it behind when I shouldn't due to weight. I have boots with a holster made onto them by a bootmaker. The Airweight Smith is not even noticed. Damnsight better than a baseball bat or that 5 iron!

BUT.....if I get to choose, I want my Sig! hehehehehehe


Re: need me a pistola, any suggestions? [Re: sig226fan (Rguns.com)] #143227 02/05/07 12:46 PM
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Sig, you mention training and comfort levels. I think that is overlooked when someone is buying a pistol for home defense. It also leads into my next paragraph.

Lots of well considered posts regarding the merits of different actions, brands and calibers. However, the original post indicated that he wanted it for, among other things, home protection for his wife. It is a very rare person who will practice with a pistol long and often enough to make a pistol useful for home protection. It has to really become part of you. I think it provides a very dangerous false sense of security.

Do a test. Have both parties practice with the pistol. Then wake either from a sound sleep yelling BURGLAR. Most people will blow their foot off after wetting the bed. I have a bunch of pistols and have used them off and on for many years. I doubt that I could pass that test.

I have been asked many times about my choice of pistols for home defense. My response is to buy the prettiest one you can afford. That way, if confronted by a bad guy, you can offer them the pretty pistol if they won't hurt you. Keep some Vaseline handy for where it can get stuck.

IMO, for 99% of the public, a pistol is a toy. For home defense, I prefer a pump shotgun, any guage. Just the sound of of one going into the chamber will make perps jump plumb through perfectly good windows. Combine that with an absolutely useless little yapping dog to give a guy time to wake up and get his shotgun.

Just my opinion.



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Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley, Rancher Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
Re: need me a pistola, any suggestions? [Re: Dave Davidson] #143228 02/05/07 01:18 PM
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Quote:

Sig, you mention training and comfort levels. I think that is overlooked when someone is buying a pistol for home defense. It also leads into my next paragraph.

Lots of well considered posts regarding the merits of different actions, brands and calibers. However, the original post indicated that he wanted it for, among other things, home protection for his wife. It is a very rare person who will practice with a pistol long and often enough to make a pistol useful for home protection. It has to really become part of you. I think it provides a very dangerous false sense of security.

Do a test. Have both parties practice with the pistol. Then wake either from a sound sleep yelling BURGLAR. Most people will blow their foot off after wetting the bed. I have a bunch of pistols and have used them off and on for many years. I doubt that I could pass that test.

I have been asked many times about my choice of pistols for home defense. My response is to buy the prettiest one you can afford. That way, if confronted by a bad guy, you can offer them the pretty pistol if they won't hurt you. Keep some Vaseline handy for where it can get stuck.

IMO, for 99% of the public, a pistol is a toy. For home defense, I prefer a pump shotgun, any guage. Just the sound of of one going into the chamber will make perps jump plumb through perfectly good windows. Combine that with an absolutely useless little yapping dog to give a guy time to wake up and get his shotgun.

Just my opinion.




No doubt. I prefer selective yield thermo-nuclear slugs in the shotgun too!

I was just giving opinions about handguns, based on his original premise. In my opinion, most women will never practice enough with a shotgun to get proficient (sorry ladies, jmo). Again I would rather see anyone, male or female, have something that they are comfortable shooting, and that they practice with.

Now, here's a whole new debate that I get to start. I know all of you purist will tell me I am wrong, but its not a pump shotgun that's out of the safe every night at my house. It's a Benelli M1 Super 90.

OK, now its time for someone to tell me it should be a pump or a hammered double barrel....


Ya'll have a nice day!


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