I was noticing alot of people on here saying they got their pup from Iron Spike. I am planning on getting my first hunting dog in the near future and was just wondering if yall you have bought a dog before have an opinion on if it is better to get a dog that has been started (introduced to guns, water, etc) or go with a propect and train it yourself from scratch?

Depends on if you have the time it takes to train one yourself. I will only buy a puppy since that is the most important time for the both of you to bond. However my boss who go this dog last week does not have time to do all the training or patience to train a puppy so he went qith a started dog from Iron Spike. I enjoy doign the training it helps me learn as well. Differant strokes for differant folks

I didn't want to go thru the year of chewing so I bought a started dog. I don't regret it at all.

I have 2 buddies that bought hunting dogs that are now just house pets...not worth a thing besides that. One even paid a well renown local trainer to train it and it still isn't worth a dime for hunting. I already had 2 house dogs and I only had one shot at a duck dog so I wanted to make sure I was getting something worth hunting with. I hunted over her one morning and then gave the guy the money.

She is AWESOME and I got far more than I paid and bargained for. She is a long way from done and I have been working her almost every day since I got her in Jan...so I have still had the gratification and bonding with her.

Tough call and only you can decide that...

By buying a started dog you should be able to see what you are buying, personality,hunting abilities, etc. If you buy a puppy even with the best bloodlines(which better your odds) you can get a dog that doesn't have much desire. Generally, a started dog also will save you money. Because by the time you buy a puppy, food, vet. bills, training bills, time. But if you enjoy the puppy stages, going to pick out a puppy, going through the training and learning with your dog you are missing an opportunity.

I don't ever plan to buy anything but a puppy. I just love puppies and watching them grow and progress. If you buy a puppy you always get to pick the name.

I bought a started dog at 15 months, and I hit the jackpot. She just turned 3, won two Qualifying stakes, and is now running all-age field trials.

You have to really know what you are looking for, but you sure can eliminate alot of undesirable outcomes. And if you are planning on having your dog trained, a started dog is usually a much better deal when you put the pencil to it.

So breeders selling started dogs are losing money? I would think it would be the other way around. Just trying to understand that one.

I like the puppy stage myself. A lot of bonding takes place during this time, I could not imagine skipping this stage. But that is just me.

too bad they cant be started as puppies, haha. but yeah I would only buy a puppy bc thats how they get to know you and especialy you get to know them. best time of a dogs life

Make that three!!!
My beautiful white lab is a nothing more than a lap dog. I dropped a tennis ball in the garage the other night with no distractions. She slowly wanderd over to it and sniffed it. Then just looked at me.
We sent her to a recognized trainer. Ad he called me month and a half early and said come get her. She will not do it.
She passed obedince but would not respond to fetch period. No force,no motivational,no jealosy,no fetch!!!!!
By the time a pup eats your couch or AC u are definatly cheaper to get a dog that is a proven tool.
This dog must work first but also be a pet.
No dought!!!! Buy a started dog.

I have three from Iron Spike and LOVE THEM! All trained and worth more than every penny!

Sometimes you do lose money in training a gun dog or started dog because you spend all that investment for a dog that just ends up being a house dog, usually donated or get a few hundred bucks to cover vet bills. But most of the time, no, they don't lose money on started dogs. However the profit margin is very small so not very profitable. It is a great deal for the buyer, but not the seller. I trained two gun dogs. I bought them at a discount because the breeder could not find homes for them. Came from good blood lines, but lacked good introduction for most of their young puppy life. I bought each one for $300 and sold them for $800. The owners are happy with them, but they didn't turn out good enough to command a higher price. Take away food, one vet visit per each dog, and the 4 months of hard work it took to train them, I pretty much lost money. Revenue was around $400 per dog, but 4 months of training a client dog at $500 per month, training the gun dog was not very profitable. 2 gun dogs, $800 for 4 months work. 2 client dogs, $4,000 for 4 months work.

Many people came to the kennels to find a started dog and ended up with a wash out that was trained. Not good enough for the orginal owner in the dog games, but perfect for the duck hunter. I much rather train a dog and wash it out, than try to make a business of selling trained dogs.

Eric

Eric

Iron Spikes does well because she breeds them herself, so does not have the initial purchase price. Plus she sells them young with just an introduction to gun dog, not a true gun dog.

The trained gun dog I am talking about is different than the trained gun dog she is talking about. Our training does not start until 6 months and also has a much higher standard of performance. You buy a gun dog I trained, you can go straight to the field with it as if been hunting before.

Eric

FYI, I don't train anymore. So not trying to sell any dogs or anything.

NVM

OH NOOOO!!!! NOT ANOTHER IRON SPIKE DEBATE!!!!

Just pointing out the difference. More than just you out there selling dogs, so it would be unfair to think everyone out there is selling the same product. People should shop around and actually go to different kennels and see what is available to get a better idea of what is out there. Instead of everyone jumping on any one person's bandwagon.

People might be happy, but how do they know if they don't know any better. I might be happy making $7 an hour working at McD's, but if I found out I could be making $10 an hour working at Burger King, I would guess I won't be so happy anymore. Same goes with dogs. I have noticed most people on here don't know what par is when it comes to these dogs. So everyone lets the mass make the decision for them. An so ignorance brees more ignorance. Like all the spam emails that make it out and I watch people just believe it instead of research it, no matter how false or ridiculous they are. Some of them even say on there, I checked snopes.com and it says it true. So everyone believes it and never checks. But when I check snopes.com, low and behold, it is false.

Some are happy below par, while others prefer to be above par. Each has it's costs, but everyone should know what par is. So go out and see more than one kennel and form your own opinion. Not what 95% of people's reponse is on here.

Eric

Exactly

Very insightful, Eric. In fact, you just nailed how & why we got started with the Jump Start pups. 30+ years in the outdoor industry, a Texas Huntmaster, hunter ed instructor, wilderness instructor/outdoor specialist, I've had occasion to run across and work with a number of trainers and guides. I also worked with a lot of hunters, especially those new to the sport. My focus has always been from a hunting perspective, when it comes to the dogs.

What I realized was that there was a gap in traditional training options - many breeders sold pups at 7-8 weeks and many trainers (such as yourself) didn't pick them up til 6 months. I sought to fill that gap with our program and not allow a pup to have that 'down time' in which many pups invariably go south. So, we started the Jump Start program to maximize that time, rather than have the pup do nothing - or even go backward. The benefits to what we offer are that the buyer can:

1) get a young pup that already demonstrates it's potential (no bad surprises down the road); and
2) get a pup with the foundation to go on to more advanced training (such as yours) with a drive/response that is ingrained at a young age.

We know that a pup is learning something every day - whether it's preparing to become a gun dog... or a coach potato. We seek to make sure that between 5 weeks and 5 months of age, everything in that pup's life is geared toward becoming not only a good gun dog, but a great family member and citizen, as well. No, it's not the traditional thing that everyone does, but it fills a need and a niche and we have fun doing it, too!

I love the whole puppy stage, myself. But we do something different... we let the buyers who reserve pups in advance pick their own names - registered and call name. Funny, but oftentimes folks prefer we name them, anyway. They say they like the names we come up with. Just thought I'd point out that some breeders will let you participate in the naming.

So I see I forgot a few letters, lol. We need spell checker