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Pup Disaster
#1277672
03/02/10 02:57 AM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,485
CinchMan
OP
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OP
Pro Tracker
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,485 |
I took my 9 month old male GSP out for the first time yesterday to work with some pen raised quail, and quite frankly, it couldn't have gone worse. I let him out to work on a planted bird by himself and he couldn't find it nor did he have any intersted whatsoever in finding it. It wasn't even on his mind, he ended up stepping on the bird, it flew up and hit him in the chin. He then proceeded to yelp and hug the ground for dear life like he was being attacked. Every time a branch cracked or the wind blew he was petrified. The bird didn't fly far so I release my older GSP to find it, she did and immediatly locked up on it. The pup comes running over and trys to get her to play while she's on point...bad move, she put him down pretty quick and then went right back on point. So very discouraged I put him up and continued my hunt. At the very end we release all 3 of our dogs to find the remaining birds and so I thought what the heck I'll let him out. He stayed with me for about 5 mins then took off like a rocket, 800 yards away he went around some trees and was gone. 2 hours later I get a call from a guy who has him up the road, I go to pick him up and he is 6 MILES FROM WHERE WE WERE HUNTING!! This pup has no interest in birds, hunting, or anything. NO drive, no intensity. Just a scared good for nothin knuckle head. Is there any hope for him at all, I keep hearing "either they got it or they dont and thay pup just dont have it." He's AKC registered with a good bloodline, my friend gave him to me for free. He just doesnt listen and quite frankly, I'm lost.
Say When.....
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Re: Pup Disaster
[Re: CinchMan]
#1277722
03/02/10 03:12 AM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,723
tigger
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,723 |
Sounds to me like he had to many new things stuck it on experience and does not have any idea at to whether to $hit or go blind. Take it slow and do not shove to much on him at once. Is he a kennel dog, yard dog, does he know to come when called, has he ever been exposed to birds? The best GSP I ever hunted with showed no interest until 2 yo. Light came on and was the best singles dog, running birds dog I ever hunted with. Don't give up give him a chance to mature and experience things. Remember his brain is like a 5yo child. Very unsure of himself and no experience to relate to.
Tigger If it isn't white it is not a birddog.
KC Lying is lying. Don't bitch about one doing it and condone another. That's called hypocrisy. _________________
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Re: Pup Disaster
[Re: CinchMan]
#1277746
03/02/10 03:17 AM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 203
Irishmule
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 203 |
Please do not fret about this. My friend went through your same situation to the tee. His dog would literally walk by a planted quail on several occasions and completely ignore it and about the same age. I told my friend to let me work with him some. I did several things with him on some different training sessions and now he is lights out on birds. I think it was a combination of maturity and development. Call me if you want more detail. jw
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Re: Pup Disaster
[Re: tigger]
#1277752
03/02/10 03:19 AM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,485
CinchMan
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He is a kennel dog. He doesn't have much experience in the world at all. His dad was also a late bloomer, but I just figured with natural instinct, shouldn't he have some interest or inclination to investigate the bird or at least be attracted to the scent? He did point at 8 weeks old. But has never shown interest since then.
Say When.....
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Re: Pup Disaster
[Re: CinchMan]
#1277778
03/02/10 03:26 AM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,723
tigger
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,723 |
Give him time and socialize him and take Elhew up on his offer.
Tigger If it isn't white it is not a birddog.
KC Lying is lying. Don't bitch about one doing it and condone another. That's called hypocrisy. _________________
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Re: Pup Disaster
[Re: tigger]
#1277933
03/02/10 04:15 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,405
coolie
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,405 |
A long time ago, I was told by an old bird dog man, that if you had a dog that had no interest in birds, one possible way to get him interested was to confine the dog in an enclosed area with 10 or so birds. Then proceed to let him kill everyone of them. It sounds reasonable in theory.
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Re: Pup Disaster
[Re: coolie]
#1278280
03/02/10 01:48 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 11,657
colt45-90
Texas colt45
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Texas colt45
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 11,657 |
can't just put a pup in a kennel, then take them out and expect them to know what to do, find a safe place to just let him run, chase meadow larks,anything that will spark his instincts, its kinda like what you see about ex-convicts getting out of prison after spending 40yrs behind bars, they don't have a clue. sittin in a kennel 24-7 won't cut it.
hold on Newt, we got a runaway
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Re: Pup Disaster
[Re: colt45-90]
#1278977
03/02/10 06:02 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 115
Straight Up, No Chaser
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 115 |
I have been there with a couple of my setters. The most important thing to remember is : Don't Panic. It may take a while for the light to come on. It is critical that you do the yard work consistently and make 100% sure they are rock solid on the basic commands (Here, Heal, Whoa etc.) Every time I take them out I take 5 or 10 minutes and go through the basic commands before I let them loose to hunt or run. Get them out of the truck, let them relieve themselves then start them off with heal and work through the commands. It helped me establish in their minds that even though they were out of the kennel or the yard, in an unfamiliar setting, I was still in charge. I found it helpful with these dogs to borrow a page from the flushing dogs and spend some time teaching them to quarter (run a zig-zag pattern in front of the hunter). It took a lot of work but it was worth it. Be patient and never lose your temper.
As far as introducing the pup to birds, the best routine I have seen is to buy some pen raised quail that are weak flyers (or clip the wings of strong flyers) and let the dog chase and catch a few. Don't try to get him to point, don't do anything that might create a negative association for the dog. IF he points, by sight or scent, handle him and praise him up. If he breaks and chases let him go. If he catches and kills the bird don't say a word. IF he brings it to you praise him like that was exactly what you expected. If he kills and buries it don't say a word. Treat it like it's the most normal thing in the world.
Colt 45 is correct, good breeding is only part of the equation, it's up to you to "spark his instincts" and keep it fun for him.
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: Pup Disaster
[Re: Straight Up, No Chaser]
#1279074
03/02/10 06:38 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 13,204
CCBIRDDOGMAN
Bird Herder
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Bird Herder
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 13,204 |
I have been there with a couple of my setters. The most important thing to remember is : Don't Panic. It may take a while for the light to come on. It is critical that you do the yard work consistently and make 100% sure they are rock solid on the basic commands (Here, Heal, Whoa etc.) Every time I take them out I take 5 or 10 minutes and go through the basic commands before I let them loose to hunt or run. Get them out of the truck, let them relieve themselves then start them off with heal and work through the commands. It helped me establish in their minds that even though they were out of the kennel or the yard, in an unfamiliar setting, I was still in charge. I found it helpful with these dogs to borrow a page from the flushing dogs and spend some time teaching them to quarter (run a zig-zag pattern in front of the hunter). It took a lot of work but it was worth it. Be patient and never lose your temper.
As far as introducing the pup to birds, the best routine I have seen is to buy some pen raised quail that are weak flyers (or clip the wings of strong flyers) and let the dog chase and catch a few. Don't try to get him to point, don't do anything that might create a negative association for the dog. IF he points, by sight or scent, handle him and praise him up. If he breaks and chases let him go. If he catches and kills the bird don't say a word. IF he brings it to you praise him like that was exactly what you expected. If he kills and buries it don't say a word. Treat it like it's the most normal thing in the world.
Colt 45 is correct, good breeding is only part of the equation, it's up to you to "spark his instincts" and keep it fun for him. Good post.
Haven't had it in years but never spit any out. I am a sucker for happy endings and strapped cowboys.
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Re: Pup Disaster
[Re: CCBIRDDOGMAN]
#1280369
03/03/10 02:35 AM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,485
CinchMan
OP
Pro Tracker
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OP
Pro Tracker
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,485 |
I'm taking Elhew up on his offer. I have extremely high hopes for this dog. I hunt with a buddy that has the father of my 2 yr old GSP and he's 10 now so we needed a dog to eventually replace him in our lineup. I'm hoping I can get this worked out and he will be ready for next year.
Say When.....
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Re: Pup Disaster
[Re: CinchMan]
#1282693
03/04/10 12:37 AM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 411
Birddogger
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 411 |
Straight up did make a great post. Check out the training book by Delmar Smith! Love his theory on training. First full year is happy time. Let the dog run, chase birds and just have fun out in the field. Work your commands and such at the house. Main thing is to let your pup get out in the fields as much as possible and chase and have fun. Its great if you have seasoned dogs they can chase around but I definately would be careful of putting him with the dog that put him down when he tried to play. Basically the dog has to get out and have fun. Get as much exposure to birds in a fun way as possible but also you have to make sure the dog will obey and stay around if you call him b/c its no good to lose the dog either.
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Re: Pup Disaster
[Re: CinchMan]
#1283854
03/04/10 02:12 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 581
Redboneman
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 581 |
give him time brother. dogs take patience...and lots of it. my young coon dog isn't running by himself even though i would like him to....patience is key. Keep adding ONE variable at a time and put him in the field.
My dog needs to be in the woods, and yours needs to be worked the same in his field. Hold fast man, he'll get there.
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Re: Pup Disaster
[Re: Redboneman]
#1284044
03/04/10 03:37 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 115
Straight Up, No Chaser
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 115 |
give him time brother. dogs take patience...and lots of it. my young coon dog isn't running by himself even though i would like him to....patience is key. Keep adding ONE variable at a time and put him in the field.
My dog needs to be in the woods, and yours needs to be worked the same in his field. Hold fast man, he'll get there. Patience IS the key.... it will pay off in the long run. In the case of my 6 year old setter, I hunted her by herself for the first 3 seasons and I didn't shoot freely over her until the end of that third season. I killed a few birds (wild and released) over her in very select situations the first two seasons and then she really got with the program in that third season. By the end of that third season she was finding a ton of birds and we really cleaned up. In fairness I must admit that I wasn't making a big sacrifice because I had another older dog who was rock solid. I worked with the younger dog in the mornings and killed birds over the older dog in the evenings. [u][/u]
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: Pup Disaster
[Re: Straight Up, No Chaser]
#1285731
03/05/10 02:30 AM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 90
Kenyon
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 90 |
Developing prey drive when a dog is young is key in the process. I introduce birds to my pups early on wing locked pigeons, chase them catch them also field larks. If at nine months the pup has never seen a bird he is behind the eight ball. Try wing locked pigeon or pigeon on a pigeon pole get him crazy about birds....Sounds like he lacks some prey drive. Don't give up develop it
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Re: Pup Disaster
[Re: Kenyon]
#1291741
03/08/10 12:51 AM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 14
Billy C
Light Foot
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Light Foot
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 14 |
You just wait till next year and get that young dog on a covey of wild quail downwind and you will find out what he's got. Lots o' things going on in his young dog brain.
Spend some time developing some basic command and companionship with him this off season and I can assure you when the opener comes around give him an opportunity. Way too early to pass judgement on this dog.
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