|
Forums46
Topics541,425
Posts9,756,647
Members88,184
| |
Most Online38,971
|
|
|
 Re: 13" total in fines
[Re: Texan Til I Die]
#1252024
02/18/10 04:20 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,220
PHishTX
Pro Tracker
|
|
Pro Tracker
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,220 |
How ironic. The regulation is is about age and the fine is based on inches of horn. 
"If age structure is deemed to be valuable to management,...What percentage change in age structure or condition does TPWD recognize that it needs to detect in order to trigger a regulatory change?  TPWD
|
|
|
|
Re: 13" total in fines
[Re: Texan Til I Die]
#1252044
02/18/10 04:25 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 32,631
sig226fan (Rguns.com)
duck & cover
|
|
duck & cover
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 32,631 |
So now I'm confused. Was the buck killed in an AR county and tagged for that county, or was it killed in a non-AR county and mistakenly tagged for the wrong county? I am thinking from the original post, working from memory which is getting dangerous, that his hunting grounds are on the county line, where he actually shot it was a non AR county but wrote the name of the county where he drove out of the gate which was an AR county. I could be 100 percent wrong... but I would seriously doubt he's going to take a 10 inch deer to a processor if he knowingly violated the law.
|
|
|
|
Re: 13" total in fines
[Re: PHishTX]
#1252099
02/18/10 04:43 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 20,366
Curly
Overrated
|
|
Overrated
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 20,366 |
How ironic. The regulation is is about age and the fine is based on inches of horn.
|
|
|
|
Re: 13" total in fines
[Re: PHishTX]
#1252187
02/18/10 05:18 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,074
Justin T
THF Trophy Hunter
|
|
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,074 |
How ironic. The regulation is is about age and the fine is based on inches of horn. Well, on the current market, customers are willing to pay more for bigger deer. I think this is pretty obvious. Some package hunts charge a trophy fee based on B&C score.
|
|
|
|
Re: 13" total in fines
[Re: Justin T]
#1252205
02/18/10 05:26 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,220
PHishTX
Pro Tracker
|
|
Pro Tracker
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,220 |
I don't consider myself a "customer" of the government. (regardless of how they feel about me)
"If age structure is deemed to be valuable to management,...What percentage change in age structure or condition does TPWD recognize that it needs to detect in order to trigger a regulatory change? TPWD
|
|
|
|
Re: 13" total in fines
[Re: sig226fan (Rguns.com)]
#1252208
02/18/10 05:27 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,074
Justin T
THF Trophy Hunter
|
|
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,074 |
So now I'm confused. Was the buck killed in an AR county and tagged for that county, or was it killed in a non-AR county and mistakenly tagged for the wrong county? I am thinking from the original post, working from memory which is getting dangerous, that his hunting grounds are on the county line, where he actually shot it was a non AR county but wrote the name of the county where he drove out of the gate which was an AR county. I could be 100 percent wrong... but I would seriously doubt he's going to take a 10 inch deer to a processor if he knowingly violated the law. I would like to here what the TS has to say. If I shot a legal deer, but mistagged it, I would be fighting this all the way. But if shot in an AR county, then you get the fine they dole out. I've seen much worse for restitution. I've seen multiple 10K plus restitution fees.
|
|
|
|
Re: 13" total in fines
[Re: PHishTX]
#1252214
02/18/10 05:29 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,074
Justin T
THF Trophy Hunter
|
|
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,074 |
I don't consider myself a "customer" of the government. (regardless of how they feel about me) That is how you determine value. What a customer would pay a private landowner to shoot a certain deer. Come on man, this is pretty black and white. How many times have you seen an ad that went "2K for 130 B&C or less, 5K for 140-160, and 100 bucks per inch for 160+" or something to that effect. How else to you assess value?
|
|
|
|
Re: 13" total in fines
[Re: Justin T]
#1252220
02/18/10 05:32 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 32,631
sig226fan (Rguns.com)
duck & cover
|
|
duck & cover
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 32,631 |
Yeah the government is in the business of assessing value.... just look at your property taxes.
|
|
|
|
Re: 13" total in fines
[Re: Justin T]
#1252249
02/18/10 05:43 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,220
PHishTX
Pro Tracker
|
|
Pro Tracker
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,220 |
Well if the violation adversely effects the (dare I say) Age Structure of the herd...per the regulation. Say $xx.xx per year. First we need to know if the portion of the state where the deer was shot had a problem. And which age class was problematic, say not enough 2.5yr portion of the buck herd, what if it was too many 1.5 yr. old based on harvest surveys.  Did the <13" buck adversely effect the age structure, Or help it? Based on the portion of the state and the herd dynamics it used to live in. It is just another example of measuring age with a rule rather than a calendar.
"If age structure is deemed to be valuable to management,...What percentage change in age structure or condition does TPWD recognize that it needs to detect in order to trigger a regulatory change? TPWD
|
|
|
|
Re: 13" total in fines
[Re: PHishTX]
#1252254
02/18/10 05:45 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,074
Justin T
THF Trophy Hunter
|
|
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,074 |
Really? This is how restitution was assessed before ARs. This is what they do to poachers as well. (Not that TS is a poacher, just unknowingly broke the law.)
|
|
|
|
Re: 13" total in fines
[Re: Justin T]
#1252269
02/18/10 05:53 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 20,366
Curly
Overrated
|
|
Overrated
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 20,366 |
Most laws ARE necessary, I personally think ARs aren't but that doesn't mean I'm gonna intentionally break the antler law.
Last edited by Curly; 02/18/10 05:54 PM.
|
|
|
|
Re: 13" total in fines
[Re: PHishTX]
#1252299
02/18/10 06:03 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 32,631
sig226fan (Rguns.com)
duck & cover
|
|
duck & cover
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 32,631 |
Well if the violation adversely effects the (dare I say) Age Structure of the herd...per the regulation. Say $xx.xx per year. First we need to know if the portion of the state where the deer was shot had a problem. And which age class was problematic, say not enough 2.5yr portion of the buck herd, what if it was too many 1.5 yr. old based on harvest surveys. Did the <13" buck adversely effect the age structure, Or help it? Based on the portion of the state and the herd dynamics it used to live in. It is just another example of measuring age with a rule rather than a calendar. !
|
|
|
|
Re: 13" total in fines
[Re: Texan Til I Die]
#1252518
02/18/10 07:51 PM
|
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 9,794
ILUVBIGBUCKS
THF Trophy Hunter
|
|
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 9,794 |
1st of all let me say that I'm sorry to hear about you getting this fine. 2nd of all, IMO, you should not have had to pay restitution for this deer because it WAS NOT POACHED! I can understand you getting a ticket for not meeting the 13" rule but in no way, shape, or form should they have taken the deer away from you or made you pay a restitution to the state for that animal.
This is NOT what the law should be about!!!!
High fence, low fence, no fence, it really doesn't matter as long as you're hunting!
|
|
|
|
Re: 13" total in fines
[Re: ILUVBIGBUCKS]
#1252833
02/18/10 09:39 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 17,104
Closed Traverse
THF Celebrity
|
|
THF Celebrity
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 17,104 |
shouldnt u just have gotten a ticket for filling the tag out wrong???
i would imagine that the law states something to the effect of "if u harvest the animal in an AR county then it must follow the AR rules" i doubt it say that u have to follow the AR rules because u filled out the tag wrongly.
|
|
|
|
Re: 13" total in fines
[Re: Curly]
#1253031
02/18/10 10:46 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 26
swk
OP
Light Foot
|
|
OP
Light Foot
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 26 |
I shot the deer in eastland county thinking it was legal. The majority of the 155 acres is in callahan and we put up this stand in eastland up this year. I got the counties mixed up. Since I got the ticket I started thinking, if you shoot a deer in a non AR county and the deer dies in a AR county what county goes on the tag? When the Game Warrden was writing me the ticket I told him that I got the counties mixed up. He told me it is a felony to purposely write the wrong county down. It's falsifing a state document.
|
|
|
|
Re: 13" total in fines
[Re: swk]
#1253039
02/18/10 10:50 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,483
Hawgg
THF Trophy Hunter
|
|
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,483 |
If it was a mistake then it was not on purpose. Bud I think he made an example out of you and that sucks.
|
|
|
|
Re: 13" total in fines
[Re: Hawgg]
#1253061
02/18/10 10:59 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 17,104
Closed Traverse
THF Celebrity
|
|
THF Celebrity
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 17,104 |
yep, i think u have been wrongly convicted. First off, u did not have the mens rea, and u surely didnt have the actus rea as long as we are talking harvesting an illegal buck.
now for not filling out the tag properly, u had the actus rea, but not the mens rea. You need both to be convicted.....
|
|
|
|
Re: 13" total in fines
[Re: Closed Traverse]
#1253082
02/18/10 11:05 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,483
Hawgg
THF Trophy Hunter
|
|
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,483 |
Going to law school Brandon? Or studying Latin? Good work anyways!
|
|
|
|
Re: 13" total in fines
[Re: Curly]
#1253093
02/18/10 11:10 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 645
Stick-n-String
Tracker
|
|
Tracker
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 645 |
and they say it's not about the antlers, yet the civil restitution is based on B&C.
Hate that it happened and thanks for sharing. Shelling out that much $$ for antlers being too narrow? Sounds to me like it WAS all about the antlers (the antler law)! That little opinion from me was for you HawgNutz! Actually it was all about breaking the law. And it was less than 10" wide. Give me a break. Whay are you so rough? I said (antler law). Give me a break. Rough because I am sick of seeing people break the rules/laws (whether intentional or not) only to have people say it shouldn't have been. Facts are the law was broken (it was admitted by TS) and now you have to pay for breaking the rule/law. That simple. But instead we have to hear a bunch of people give other ways to get around the rules/laws, as well as hearing people taking up for someone that broke the law. Its the whole reason more and more rules/laws get have to be put into place.
|
|
|
|
Re: 13" total in fines
[Re: Stick-n-String]
#1253105
02/18/10 11:17 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,483
Hawgg
THF Trophy Hunter
|
|
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,483 |
From what he posted Stick, sounds like he made a mistake and was crucified for it. Nobody knows but him and I don't really think anybody around here is trying to maliciously break a law.
|
|
|
|
Re: 13" total in fines
[Re: Hawgg]
#1253107
02/18/10 11:18 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 17,104
Closed Traverse
THF Celebrity
|
|
THF Celebrity
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 17,104 |
Going to law school Brandon? Or studying Latin? Good work anyways! took a politics class where we learned a lot of court cases and stuff like that. i was interested.
|
|
|
|
Re: 13" total in fines
[Re: Closed Traverse]
#1253108
02/18/10 11:18 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,410
Tye
Veteran Tracker
|
|
Veteran Tracker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,410 |
Who was the game warden who wrote the ticket? Zach?
If you shoot a young deer because a neighbor will shoot it, you are that neighbor.
|
|
|
|
Re: 13" total in fines
[Re: Stick-n-String]
#1253122
02/18/10 11:26 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 17,104
Closed Traverse
THF Celebrity
|
|
THF Celebrity
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 17,104 |
Rough because I am sick of seeing people break the rules/laws (whether intentional or not) only to have people say it shouldn't have been. Facts are the law was broken (it was admitted by TS) and now you have to pay for breaking the rule/law. That simple. But instead we have to hear a bunch of people give other ways to get around the rules/laws, as well as hearing people taking up for someone that broke the law. Its the whole reason more and more rules/laws get have to be put into place.
if he did not shoot a deer less than 13'' IN an AR county then he did not break that law....
|
|
|
|
Re: 13" total in fines
[Re: Hawgg]
#1253136
02/18/10 11:30 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 645
Stick-n-String
Tracker
|
|
Tracker
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 645 |
From what he posted Stick, sounds like he made a mistake and was crucified for it. Nobody knows but him and I don't really think anybody around here is trying to maliciously break a law. Either way it is our responsibility as hunters to know the laws/rules. If you mess up so be it, just know you are going to pay for it. And crucified for it? He should have been fined more. I do agree that most don't maliciously break the law, however I still believe it is every hunters responsibility to know the laws, if you still mess up, you have to pay.
|
|
|
Moderated by bigbob_ftw, CCBIRDDOGMAN, Chickenman, Derek, DeRico, Duck_Hunter, kmon11, kry226, kwrhuntinglab, Payne, pertnear, sig226fan (Rguns.com), Superduty, TreeBass, txcornhusker
|
