calling all you usual people. so over the last year i have really embrassed reloading, started to become an obsessio actually. went to the range today to try some loads. i was successfull in the "almost" final stages of my .220 swift .6". however i have been working on one of my .30-06's. i got real discouraged. i would bug hole 2 or 3 then throw 2 or 3 by a few inches....awful!
here comes the question. i just didn't feel comfortable, and never beig trained i have tried alot of set-ups, kinda nice front benchrest, really nice "the rock BR", harris bipod, and even a lead sled. but my gunfeels like it torques. on the bench are you supposed to apply alot of pressure into the sholder and with your dominant hand, or barley touch the gun so that it eliminates human varible. some bench shooters i have observed don't even touch the gun, and they pench the trigger with finger and thumb. i got the willies so bad i have lost some coinfidence in me and some in my gun. i almost ordered a new stock on midway.why, i don't know. maybe to buy some accuracy and comfort and confidence back.

if someone could let me know i appreciate it.

30-06's put out the heat, and I've found it best to shoot a 3 shot group and give it a rest for 10 mins... especially to clear your mind. Even though you don't think you are flinching, have a person video tape you and see what you look like. It will really surprise you.

I don't put allot of pressure on my shoulder using my right hand becase it will cause you to torque the gun thru the trigger, but use my left hand up the under buttstock and keep it firm against my shoulder.

Practice your breathing also, and time your trigger pull right before you bottom out on your exhale. Don't hold your breath.

Sounds like you have a project on your hands. To me, this is where things get interesting. If not fun in some masochistic way.

tx_basser gave some great advice. If you're sure your form is not the problem, then it's time to question the gun. Which we all want to do first.

There are possibly a lot of things "rifle related" that could cause this. You're talking about buying a new stock. Just curious, why exactly?

basser nailed it, they make some real heat. do as he said, try that. also if your working up a load measure every load don't rely on the charge to be right double check every one of them.

my loading is maticulous, case prep, seating depth, charging, ect... do i let the rifle "free recoil" for load development or what is the best way to mount/rest the gun?

Kyle, if you really think the rifle is the problem, and not the shooter, here is what I would do. Take the rifle home, scrub the bore until you have removed EVERY piece of contaminant in the bore. You want it down to bare metal. Check all the screws on your rings & bases to make sure they are tight. Then go back to the range, shoot a couple fowlers, and then get the gun set up on the bags. What I try and do is just let the gun lay on the bags without me touching it. Get the scope lined up, and keep your shoulder as close to the butt of the gun as possible without touching it. Don't use your hand to prop up any part of the gun. Get the cross-hairs on the target with the gun fully supported by bags. Let the gun free-recoil into your shoulder. If the recoil is too great, fold up a hand towel, and then drape it over your shoulder. If you are concerned about your manly image, put the towel on the inside of your shirt, and your shirt will hold it in place. What you are trying to do is figure out if the problem is really the gun, or your loads. This method removes the human flinch, and breathing errors, and jerking, or heart-beats moving the cross-hairs.

Then, review your groups after that. How long are you waiting between shots? Is it a sporter-weight barrel? Could be heat building up in the barrel. Is the barrel free-floated?

If you don't mind me asking-what type of gun? Barrel length? What powder, charge weight, & bullet are you using? Has this gun ever been accurate with other loads before? What's the history on the rifle?

I'll bet txbasser has it right, after the first 2 shots, you are probably expecting the recoil of the 3rd shot and flinching. Happens to the best of us.

do you check bullet run out ?
I found out that my bullets werent seating very true. I now seat the bullet a little spin the case 1/4, seat a little more spin the case again and again till its seated all the way.
Place one of your loaded rounds on a piece of glass or mirror and roll it, see if the bullet wobbles any, mine were untill I started doing it the other way.

a far as resting the gun, well whatever works for you. a good trigger is a must, 2 1/2 lbs at the most.

Kyle, post of your Rifle specs and Load specs. I've done allot of -06 reloading and would interested to see them.

ok here we go:
i dont need abuse but it is a ruger m77 mkII stainless. gun is 10 years old. had that boat paddle stock on it. found a stock at gunshow that was pretty wood and glass bedded. me and a QUALITY gunsmith checked the bedding and it fit actually pretty well. has a nice exact 2lb. timney tigger. barrell is completly free floated. forgive my ignorance but the "recoil lug screw down by the floor plate" is torqued to 45 inch pounds. benchrest magazine follwer instaled ( i will explain later), ruger rings and nikon monarch have been installed for years, rings are also lapped. the scope and rings i would say are 99.9% chance of NOT being my problem. this gun shot core lokts and other factory ammo around 1.5 MOA before reloading. got into reloading. found a few good loads, but as most some days the were .5 some days i would reverify and they were 1moa. then i found some 175 sierra matchkings seated long .005 off lands (hince mag follower) to stay under .75 every single time. did shoot a deer with the loads. AND dropped it! but i only did it becuase it was a load i trusted. poor bullet performance though. f.y.i that was over IMR 4350. played with berger, got picky results. to finiky and wouldn't repeat consistant results very well, and leery about game performance. that load was tried with IMR 4064 and R19. i got some other toys and decided if i could find another consistant 1 moa +/- "game round, i would load it up and leave that gun as a hunter like it should be. currently the gun feels like it has more recoil for some reason, and i am not comfortable on that stock anymore. that was the only reason for getting another stock. plus wonder if any bedding spots cracked or chipped over time. i clean my barrell with sweets, hoppes, and rem oil. i use bore guides and nice rods. i wait (this time of year) 2 minutes between shots. barrel isn't even warm to touch. current eventory o hand is low. i have H322, R19, IMR 4064 and nosler BT 150, berger VLD 155, sierra match 175, seirra gameking 165. LET ME HAVE IT BOYS. anybody live close to hurst and want to come over to make sure i am setting dies right, play with my stuff, whatever, i am open to learn.
p.s. "free recoil" method i have thought about, but this gun is freaking "spikey"

Hmm, my only actual load advice, I have found one particular load the will shoot well in every '06 I ever tried it in. It shoots phenomenal on my old Win70 built in the late 60's, with a worn out pitted up barrel that looks like a Kaufman county road inside (you have to drive some of our roads to truly appreciate that statement). Sierra Gameking 150's over 58-60 grs of IMR 4831. This will be a coompressed load, so work up to it. With my rifle, I use the 60gr load. I could pretty much trim the case to length, fill it up with powder and level it off with a butter knife. Then tap it on the head of the case to settle the powder a bit and seat the bullet. I literally don't think I could get any more powder in it if I wanted. I've yet to see a rifled chambered in an '06 parent cased round that would give at least acceptable results with 4831 (except one, read on for more info on that). I'm sure others would say the same of 4350 though.

I've never been a fan of the boat paddle stock. But my opinion is base mostly on looks alone. I certainly wouldn't blame you if you chose to chunk it for something more attractive and stable though.

The only Ruger I ever had trouble with was the 25-06 I had, it was made in '76. I went round and round with it. I ended up getting the barrel re-crowned as a last resort. It woke up and shot like a house on fire. So who knows?

Sounds like you're confident in the rifle's optic set-up. So I don't know if that would be where to start.

You said in your first post, this was one of at least a couple of '06's you have, right? No problems with the others? Same loading technique providing good results with them? Same bench discipline I assume?

My advice is to get away from the match style bullets, and try something tried and true before you get too discouraged. If for no other reason than just verifying the rifle's potential and establishing a fall back load before the experiments begin. The Pro Hunter and Game King bullets from Sierra have been accurate bullets for decades in just about any offering. They're relatively inexpensive as well. If you're incline to try some different loads that is.

I've seen the Nosler BT's do well in some rifles, not so well in others. The Bergers, I could so where they could be picky. Never actually used them, or the Match Kings. But have played around with some match grade bullets in the past and got the same picky/finicky feeling from them. Gave up on that whole train of thought pretty quick and went back to basics. Got better, more consistent accuracy, and saved money by using cheaper bullets.



Jay

that 165 gr Sierra Gameking is a great bullet and I loaded it in all of my -06's in Service Rifle and Hunter class. As far as powder I don't care for extruded powders, and prefer spherical. I think they burn more uniform and provide constant pressure throughout ignition. Favorites were H414 and H380, with best results coming from H414. It is hard finding the right balance between velocity and accuracy, but I will take better accuracy over another 50 - 75 fps.

Also, I would shoot 1 or 2 fouling shots before I start measuring results, as I found that you need to heat up that residue of Rem Oil left in the barrel to get best results. Stock sounds suspect since it was the last thing that was changed. There would be stress points that are not seen that could cause occilations that throw off your results.

Your load may not be your problem. You said that you and a gunsmith checked the bedding and it was "close"... Sorry, gotta question that. This rifle needs to be bedded to this stock. Period. "Close" won't cut it. Not if you're looking for bugholes.

I have become convinced that bedding (Or something loose..)is the cause of a large percentage of flyers. Especially when they are "a few" inches. Bed that rifle. Check the action screws and rings for tightness often, too. Good Luck.

ordered hougue full length bed block stock, it will be here saturday, making more loads and range on sunday!

I wanna come play!

come on....my shop is open to anyone

57.5 of h4350
165 sierra gameking
mosler brass
cci lr benchrest
.015 out of lands
moa= .474"

stock didn't show up, thanks alot midsouth shooters supply!

Going to be hard to beat that load. Good work and shooting

hogue showed up today, we will see what that load will replicate.

Chronograph your loads to check for consistant velocities.

haven't invested in one yet...:(

They are worth it. You can get the entry level Chrony from Cabela's for $100. No bells or whistles just the facts. Of course, you can spend more. Chrony even lets you trade it in on a more expensive model any time you want. It will tell you a lot about your reloads. I know it will come as a shock to a lot of people but the velocities shown in the loading manuals "ain't necessarily so."
I'd let you borrow mine but it is out at the hunting lease right now. Maybe you can sell your old stock for $100 and get one.

CABELA'S CHRONY F-1

what do you set them up on?

tripod