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Feb 7th, 2025
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 My buddy's 7mm Sendero rifle: WHY???????
#115286
11/30/06 05:23 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 128
wileyporker
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Woodsman
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Woodsman
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My good friend won a NIB Rem Sendero 7 mag in a raffle 3 years ago. The rifle cost him 60 bucks. He just now went out and bought a Bushnell Trophy scope for it for 50 bucks. 1. Why o why did he keep it boxed up this long? 2. Why not spend some $$ and get a Leupold, Burris, Nikon, or something? 
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Re: My buddy's 7mm Sendero rifle: WHY???????
[Re: wileyporker]
#115287
11/30/06 06:43 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
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redchevy
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He probably didnt have a use for it until now. THe reason for the cheap scope could vary.
1. It isnt a gun he really likes, so he isnt going to spend too much cash on it.
2. Alot of times there is nothing wrong with cheap scopes, I have out shot alot of people with my scope that had a better one then I did. Also I have an $80 simmons special that has kept pace with my Leupold just fine.
matt
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: My buddy's 7mm Sendero rifle: WHY???????
[Re: redchevy]
#115288
11/30/06 07:28 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 128
wileyporker
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Woodsman
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I'm not picking on the Bushnell scope. Personally I like lower priced scopes. I have a 6x40 Charles Daly on my 280 and aa Simmons 6.5-20x44mm on my 220 swift. They've held up very well. I do have a Leupold on my 338 but that's for recoil reasons (I had a Simmons 8 point 3-9 on it first but the recoil turned it into a strictly 3 power scope). I was just saying that the guy could endulge a little more on the scope since he paid so little for the gun. He has no shortage of money.
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Re: My buddy's 7mm Sendero rifle: WHY???????
[Re: wileyporker]
#115289
11/30/06 08:09 PM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,802
booger
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maybe he just don't know no better. I think optics are like a wedding ring for your wife... spend the money to be happy and it will last a lifetime. What would you rather have on your gun something that was cheap and easy or something that you have confidense in day in and day out year after year.
Big ones line-up, little ones bunch-up
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Re: My buddy's 7mm Sendero rifle: WHY???????
[Re: booger]
#115290
12/02/06 12:01 AM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,203
Jimbo
THF Trophy Hunter
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I have to agree, that he doesn't know any better. He is not a gun nut, and will if he ever "gets it" will probably go with a higher quality scope.
Make your friend an offer he can't refuse!
Last edited by Jimbo; 12/02/06 12:04 AM.
Thursday at 12:45 PM
#33
Once i learned that i didn't "NEED" to kill something, and that if i did kill something all the fun stopped and work began, i was a much better hunter.
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Re: My buddy's 7mm Sendero rifle: WHY???????
[Re: Jimbo]
#115291
12/02/06 06:54 AM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 7,026
psycho0819
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Yep, optics are a funny thing to ask opinions on. Some people swear by cheap scopes, some are strictly upper end buyers. But I believe you pay for what you need, and you get what you pay for. Chinese optics,IMHO, are junk for the most part. Seen too many loose zero, and fog up. And never seen a chink scope w/target knobs that would track correctly.
Japanese optics are not, IMHO. Most American, and European optics are of good quality, but also cost loads of cash. I use Japanese optics myself. I'm a Weaver fan (V-Series). Nikon (Monarch)is a great scope for the money too. We have tortured many of these scopes on PD towns, cranking and twisting knobs back and forth all day. And for the money I think they are two of the best scopes a shooter can buy.
I do own a Simmons. It is on my Sako 222rem. I have shot 1/4" five shot groups with this combo. And it works great for Varmint hunting. But it sux on a PD town where I'm looking thru it all day. The reticle is so heavy that it completely covers a PD at about 400yds. And the optics cause too much eye strain. Most shooters would never notice this, and therefore swear their Simmons is just as good as someone's Leupold, Weaver,Burris,Insert Name Here. I've seen the other end of the spectrum as well. I know a guy that has a $1000 Nightforce on a .270 deer rifle. It was the biggest waste of money that I'd seen in a long time. But he'll NEVER, EVER, have to buy another scope for that gun.
The more a person looks thru a scope, the better scope they will need. Just like Bino's.
These are just my Opinions/Observations. They are not meant to degrade ANYONE for their choice in glass.
Jay
Tolerance is the virtue of a man without conviction.
The end of the world began the day it was created, and life is a sexually transmitted terminal disease.
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Re: My buddy's 7mm Sendero rifle: WHY???????
[Re: wileyporker]
#115292
12/02/06 01:10 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 16,474
Crazyhorse
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Re: My buddy's 7mm Sendero rifle: WHY???????
[Re: Crazyhorse]
#115293
12/02/06 02:21 PM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,203
Jimbo
THF Trophy Hunter
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That gun is capable of hitting a silver dollar at 300 yards.
I know because I've shot one, and I would have to believe that the individual doesn't really know what he has.
For having only $60.00 in the gun I guess he wants to keep it on the cheap.
It's his gun, his choice, and I'm sure he will enjoy it even with a cheap scope.
Thursday at 12:45 PM
#33
Once i learned that i didn't "NEED" to kill something, and that if i did kill something all the fun stopped and work began, i was a much better hunter.
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Re: My buddy's 7mm Sendero rifle: WHY???????
[Re: Jimbo]
#115294
12/02/06 04:04 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 605
biz
Tracker
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Tracker
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PULL the TRIGGER, SHOOT to KILL!!!
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Re: My buddy's 7mm Sendero rifle: WHY???????
[Re: Jimbo]
#115295
12/02/06 11:18 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 16,474
Crazyhorse
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Re: My buddy's 7mm Sendero rifle: WHY???????
[Re: Crazyhorse]
#115296
12/03/06 12:09 AM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 33,585
txtrophy85
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CHC,
as you already know, fixed optics are always going to be more reliable than any variable powered scope. also, despite being a house brand, cabela's scopes and optics are considered to be very dependable and rugged. their alaskan guide scope is top rated among rifle scopes. but i have to agree somewhat with the theory that you should at least do yourself a favor and put decent optics on a nice rifle setup. i would try and go mid range. when i got my first deer rifle in 97, i put a redfield tracker on it, which was considered the best buy for the money. i haven't had a problem with it yet. i even had my rifle fall after it was leaned against the side of my jeep, and it still held zero. i tried to cheap out on my 22-250 and got a cheap simmons and it lasted about 5 shots, literally. went and got a $109 dollar busnell banner and haven't had a problem. it's kinda like buying an king ranch diesel and putting 200 tires on it and then complaining about blowouts.
For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
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Re: My buddy's 7mm Sendero rifle: WHY???????
[Re: txtrophy85]
#115297
12/03/06 03:36 AM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 11,215
DannyB
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You buy what you can afford. Everybody has their own opinion as to the balance of investment between the gun and scope. I swing a little more to the scope over the gun. I figure that the gun will always be better than my shooting ability resting on shooting sticks. But I don’t want the scope to actually fail, (fog, be loose inside, etc.).
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Re: My buddy's 7mm Sendero rifle: WHY???????
[Re: Jimbo]
#115299
12/03/06 12:28 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 16,474
Crazyhorse
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First, I don't recall us ever meeting so I don't know where your coming up with that "Friend" business.
Second, 75% of the reasoning behind why most people buy the high end scopes is because it sounds more impressive, has nothing to do with the quality of the scope, it has to do with trying to impress people.
With way too many folks anymore, it is the price of the toys that matters, not their ability to use them.
Third, I ain't a self proclaimed "Anything". I am just someone that likes to hunt and fish, and have been able to do more than my share of both. I have no trouble what so ever about voicing my opinions on subjects, because my opinions were developed from being in various hunting camps and sharing them with all sorts of folks, and I have yet to see a situation where the price of someones equipment made up for their lack of ability.
I just don't buy into the high dollar scope concept, same with binoculars and range finders. People are relying too heavily on gadgets and relying and working less on honing their own natural abilities. JMDO.
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Re: My buddy's 7mm Sendero rifle: WHY???????
[Re: Crazyhorse]
#115300
12/03/06 01:03 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 32,631
sig226fan (Rguns.com)
duck & cover
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Quote:
First, I don't recall us ever meeting so I don't know where your coming up with that "Friend" business.
Second, 75% of the reasoning behind why most people buy the high end scopes is because it sounds more impressive, has nothing to do with the quality of the scope, it has to do with trying to impress people.
With way too many folks anymore, it is the price of the toys that matters, not their ability to use them.
Third, I ain't a self proclaimed "Anything". I am just someone that likes to hunt and fish, and have been able to do more than my share of both. I have no trouble what so ever about voicing my opinions on subjects, because my opinions were developed from being in various hunting camps and sharing them with all sorts of folks, and I have yet to see a situation where the price of someones equipment made up for their lack of ability.
I just don't buy into the high dollar scope concept, same with binoculars and range finders. People are relying too heavily on gadgets and relying and working less on honing their own natural abilities. JMDO.
Wow, Randall and I agreeing again, what is the world coming to?
I pretty much agree with everything, but might take one point a little further. I always agree that most people need practice more than products, but if someone is an accomplished shooter to start with, some higher quality (not necessarily higher priced) optics and equipment can help. I guess I am a hypocrite, my Savage 10FP has a Springfield Government 4-14 Gen III on it (about $600, built by Leica in Japan) and my Remington 742 Carbine has a 3-9 Tasco (built by low-bidder, who knows where). Both work well for their intended purposes.
As for the original premise posed by Wiley....maybe he is just wanting to shoot 100 yards and that's enough scope, at least for a while until the recoil kicks its tail.
And just for free, here is my opinion after 21 years in the business....for the money, Leupold is the best, Nikon is good too, Burris is up there as well, then B&L (not Bushy's yet);drops off a little to the Upper end tasco's (some were good, some were junk); then comes the upper Bushy's and Upper BSA's; then all the others.......and at the end of the line is the wal-mart Simmons line.
Most of the manufacturers, even Leupold and Nikon, have developed lower end products and upper end products. Don't make generalizations about "all XXXX" brands.
In general, I like to see someone spend about as much on optics and mounts as they do on rifles. Most rifles today will outshoot 99.99% of the shooters today (sorry guys, me included). Biggest dumb move I see in the shop are the guys with Sendero's or the like, Leupold B&C series scopes or equivalent, and A-frame cast aluminum rings and bases...use steel.
OK, soory if I snubbed someone, it wasn't intentional.
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Re: My buddy's 7mm Sendero rifle: WHY???????
[Re: sig226fan (Rguns.com)]
#115301
12/03/06 01:19 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 16,474
Crazyhorse
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 While we are so agreable this a.m., I believe that the skilled and knowledgable hunters buy such equipment to enhance their abilities and know how to use them to do so. It is the novices that are listening too or reading all the hype and figure that buying the equipment will if nothing else get them accepted as a hunter,....................... until they open their mouths. I have no problem with folks buying equipment at whatever the cost if they are getting it to improve their abilities. I have a problem with it when an inexperienced person buys stuff trying to cvompensate for their lack of knowledge or ability. Reason why I hate variable scopes. Experienced shooters know how to use them, inexperienced shooters will invariably start playing with those things and then something will walk out 50 yards away and they can't see it thru the scope. Then when the animal runs off the newbie will finally look at the scope, get red in the face and make that famous remark, "Oh Crap, I had it set on 12 power."
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Re: My buddy's 7mm Sendero rifle: WHY???????
[Re: sig226fan (Rguns.com)]
#115302
12/03/06 02:59 PM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,203
Jimbo
THF Trophy Hunter
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Quote:
In general, I like to see someone spend about as much on optics and mounts as they do on rifles. Most rifles today will outshoot 99.99% of the shooters today (sorry guys, me included). Biggest dumb move I see in the shop are the guys with Sendero's or the like, Leupold B&C series scopes or equivalent, and A-frame cast aluminum rings and bases...use steel.
OK, soory if I snubbed someone, it wasn't intentional.
Thank You!
I rest my case! This is no BS. This man knows what he is talking about!
Thursday at 12:45 PM
#33
Once i learned that i didn't "NEED" to kill something, and that if i did kill something all the fun stopped and work began, i was a much better hunter.
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Re: My buddy's 7mm Sendero rifle: WHY???????
[Re: Crazyhorse]
#115303
12/03/06 05:13 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 33,585
txtrophy85
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Quote:
Reason why I hate variable scopes. Experienced shooters know how to use them, inexperienced shooters will invariably start playing with those things and then something will walk out 50 yards away and they can't see it thru the scope. Then when the animal runs off the newbie will finally look at the scope, get red in the face and make that famous remark, "Oh Crap, I had it set on 12 power."
so your really don't hate variable scopes, you hate inexperanced hunter? lol. i agree with the keeping up with the jones attitude. i recall once when i was at cut rate fishing tackle in houston, and we were buying sand eels. three guys in line in front of us rang up over 1300 dollars worth of gear,and when asked where they were going to fish, they replied, well, we'll troll around till we see fish on the hummingbird, then drop anchor. i bet they caught nothing but hard heads. these were the guys in columbia wear and tommy bahama clothes. we were in old wranglers, tennis shoes and no shirts. we looked like we could't afford a glass of water. but we caught the hell out of trout and flounder. also, we wern't out there with Zebco's either. abu's and allstars were the tools of the trade. people who fished shimano's were yuppies. point is, we had good enuff gear, to get the job done and more, yet did't show off with our fancy gear. same with hunting optics. i became a believer in leupolds when my uncle bought one in 1974 and it still is on his model 70, hunts with it every year without a problem. get yourself something that will fill your need and will last, nothing more, nothing less
For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
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Re: My buddy's 7mm Sendero rifle: WHY???????
[Re: wileyporker]
#115304
12/03/06 05:25 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 812
SplitTimeHunter
Tracker
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Luck of the draw. Maybe he got a good one.
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Re: My buddy's 7mm Sendero rifle: WHY???????
[Re: SplitTimeHunter]
#115305
12/03/06 10:49 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 11,215
DannyB
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This is sidetracking the scope discussion a little but still somewhat on topic. A long time ago I used to shoot skeet quite a bit and had a pretty decent used Citori at the time. I took two friends of mine with similar quality guns to this range in Tyler for a competition shoot one afternoon. We had never been there before. This range was more like a country club than a shooting range. I’m sure some of you Tyler folks know where I am talking about. It was a very different game than anything I had ever heard of before. You and two partners stood out in front facing a trap machine. The thrower threw thirty birds at the three shooters about as fast as the machine would cycle. The idea was not to let any get by you. We had never shot this game before, but we won second place against all the locals. The most fun about the whole afternoon to me was this: There was this snob sort of a man that had a Krieghoff O/U shotgun. His team shot right after us. His gun failed and wouldn’t fire a second shot. When he walked by me on his way to get another gun from his vehicle I smarted off and said, “That’s a mighty nice $5,000 single shot you have there.”  The point being that the equipment doesn't always produce the results, or that is the most expensive equipment can actually fail.
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Re: My buddy's 7mm Sendero rifle: WHY???????
[Re: Jimbo]
#115306
12/03/06 11:11 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 16,474
Crazyhorse
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You wouldn't make a very good attorney. Your resting your case on one person posting what they preferred, funny thing, that is all I was doing, posting what my preference or opinion was.
He wasn't taking anyones side, he was just voicing his opinion. I have no problem with someone doing that, I have a problem when people start equating things with $$$ spent or brand bought.
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Re: My buddy's 7mm Sendero rifle: WHY???????
[Re: Crazyhorse]
#115307
12/04/06 12:33 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 33,585
txtrophy85
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what are u talking about, thats what most attorneys do anyway
For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
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Re: My buddy's 7mm Sendero rifle: WHY???????
[Re: Crazyhorse]
#115308
12/04/06 04:41 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 32,631
sig226fan (Rguns.com)
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Quote:
While we are so agreable this a.m., I believe that the skilled and knowledgable hunters buy such equipment to enhance their abilities and know how to use them to do so.
It is the novices that are listening too or reading all the hype and figure that buying the equipment will if nothing else get them accepted as a hunter,....................... until they open their mouths.
I have no problem with folks buying equipment at whatever the cost if they are getting it to improve their abilities. I have a problem with it when an inexperienced person buys stuff trying to cvompensate for their lack of knowledge or ability.
Reason why I hate variable scopes. Experienced shooters know how to use them, inexperienced shooters will invariably start playing with those things and then something will walk out 50 yards away and they can't see it thru the scope. Then when the animal runs off the newbie will finally look at the scope, get red in the face and make that famous remark, "Oh Crap, I had it set on 12 power."
See, we still agree. I too think that some think they can buy ability with equipment, and that is not the case.
I also agree that most people use too much scope (magnification). I seldom turn my big scopes up from 4 (which in reality is nearly 5). I may if I need the magification, but usually keep it as low as it goes. Especially if stalking/still hunting. Anytime you get surprised, its going to be up close, or moving, and the less power more field of view the better. If the surprise comes with time and distance, you can adjust as needed.
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Re: My buddy's 7mm Sendero rifle: WHY???????
[Re: sig226fan (Rguns.com)]
#115309
12/04/06 04:55 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 128
wileyporker
OP
Woodsman
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Woodsman
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Well we sighted the Sendero in Saturday with Hornady 140 gr BTSPs. I boresighted the rifle then took only 5 rounds to get zero (+1.5" at 100 yards). My friend then shot the rifle a couple times at the same target to see if he could duplicate the zero. The resulting 5 shot group was one big, multi-lobed hole measuring a little more than 5/8". The rifle doesn't kick so it's a dream to shoot. The trigger, however, is touchy. It's much lighter than any other Remington I have.
It takes a big man to admit that he's wrong...and I'm definitely a big man.
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