Sometimes I would not have time to dial. LOL.

I get it, you are not capable of making a shot unless you have a pattern displayed on a screen in front of you to connect the dots.

You're wrong. I'm not doing "the Kentucky gravity method". It's not about what you or I can do. The 6" I stated was "about" and for 300 yards using the subject scope. I stressed being confident with his DOPE. The method you describe as Kentucky gravity would apply to all shots made without a mil reticle or dialing. Call it what you want but good, ethical hunters use it sucessfully. Myself, I'd dial it. But for the OP, his application and the subject scope, he doesn't HAVE to dial it, as you stated. Knowing your equipment, knowing your range, knowing the size of your target, it's what most hunters do as I described above.

Back before the proliferation of dial scopes when you had a duplex crosshair you could through range sessions, notes and lots of practice make shots on game further than most would or should shoot without taking the time and effort with whatever they are using even today.

Now days it is easy but in the in the 90s and early 2000s I was confident on deer size game to 500 yards with a duplex scope sighted at 200 yards as long as the wind wasn't crazy which still holds today the wind calls are the hardest part. I would go for my largest target the lungs and forget the brainstem shots but a shot through the lungs is just as lethal though not as fast. several deer and a couple pronghorns were taken cleanly with on shot in the 450 to 509 yards cleanly with one without dialing and with that scope you dial you better check because it didn't track accurately at all but stayed where you set it nicely. Without knowing what it would do i would not have attempted those shots.

These days almost all my shots are within 150 yards and most well under 100 yards so I am a set it and forget it man for my hunting. Shooting longer is still fun but not required for my hunting.

Absolutely right kmon. The first years of my big game hunting life was with a Leupold duplex reticle, whether it be a Vari X IIc, or Vari X III. I was using a 7mag, sighted 2.5" high at 100, and knew the reticle subtensions, and I killed game that way for 30 years. It isn't that hard, as you well know.

I'm just waiting for the "myself, my kids, and my cousins and their cousins have dialed more scopes and fired more dialed rounds in the past 5 years than you have your entire life" and nobody knows WTH their taking about but me" BS. Or getting challenged to some sort of target shooting competition BS.

Optics wise will put Meopta up against most though not in the Swaro/Leica category, but dang good for what I have used.

Exactly, that is what I described. With the subject scope, rifle and ammo I wouldn't hesitate to take a 400 yard shot on a good sized white tail buck without dialing. We shoot on paper at 100 and 200 yards. Shoot at steel, 8"Ø, at 300 and 400 yards. One of my hunting partners has a simple duplex reticle. Not a problem for him hitting steel at those ranges. Hunters have been, and are still doing it this way.

youll be fine Bobby

Yes Sir. I'll like it or not and if I don't I'll move it.

"The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot read and write, but those who cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn."

-Alvin Toffler

Millions of animals were easily killed way before this Alvin Toffler ever existed.

Arrogance, the personality trait whereby a person has an obnoxiously elevated sense of self-worth. An arrogant person is the one who acts as if they’re superior, more worthy, and more important than others. Therefore, they tend to disrespect and put others down.

Unlearn that you have to dial the scope that you stated “You HAVE to dial that scope” if you don't want to be included in Alvin Toffler’s definition.

I wouldn't own an moa scope on a centerfire rifle if you gave it to me. I could never remember any kind of windage adjustments or quickly do calculations if wind isn't exactly what I had memorized. It's an unnecessary handicap.

Sighted in a rifle for a buddy last night for a hunt today with his moa scope. There's no difference in MOA vs Mils - measure and dial. 2 shots. The difference is in windage calculations. If someone said "you missed 3" low and 8" right" and the target was 165 yards away, what good does that do you? You're going to hold what? How many MOA is that? Quick. Until we start thinking in MOA and Mils instead of inches, none of it really does you any good for quick scope corrections. If you're punching paper, as long as your reticle and your dials are in the same units, it doesn't matter. Usually if someone says "you're a foot high", you just hold a foot low as best you can judge. You're not dialing or using the reticle for that. But if you're trying to compensate for inconsistent wind for your first shot at a target, mils is just easier.

Slow brain and a fast mouth.

Go back to where I looked at the reticle, and look at the reticle yourself. It is junk.

Tell Bobcat to hold 1.5 Mil, 2.0 Mil, 2.5 Mil and the reticle will not allow it.

You are wasting your time with a few Fudds around here.

Ssshhh….the hunters are talking. You don’t have to hold in those values. And, you don’t have to dial that scope as you incorrectly stated. That is bad advice. Hunters can hunt with that scope and make ethical, clean shots on game.

Im not disappointed in this thread, I knew it would deliver!

The OP asked about a scope, he is buying scope, not using a scope he already has. I would think that one would want a reticle that can offer an advantage over a basic duplex since you are already making a new purchase. No Tremor or Horus needed, just simple sub tensions. I used a duplex for over 20 years, and had success, but there is no way I can pull off a shot with one and be as precise as I can with one that has sub tensions. Putting a bullet within 1” of my aim point on a deer at 350 yards is much better than guessing and putting it within 6”. Give yourself every advantage you have when possible.

My freezer is full of wild meat, that I killed. Same as every other year.

You don't have to have those values if you enjoy missing, gut shooting and/or taking guesses at being "hopefully close enough".

O.P. started a thread about a Mil scope. Since you do not know anything about them why don't you shh and sit down?

O.P. started a thread about a Mil scope and also preferring to make holds. That scope will not make Mil holds. The photo of the reticle clearly shows it. You do not know about Mils or MOA, yet you keep replying.

Even when we all agree that scope sucks

Some of you need to get a room and just get the leg humping over with

@J.G.: You're having trouble with reading comprehension and identifying the dynamic topic and context.

Not only are you wrong about having to dial the subject scope, you're wrong in your assertion that "you enjoy missing, gut shooting and/or taking guesses at being "hopefully close enough"." if you do it differently. Hunters make ethical shots on game in mass by knowing their DOPE and using a duplex reticle. I never stated to do anything that would lead to taking a shot and "hopefully being close enough". I stated the opposite. Learn your equipment, know your dope, be confident, know the size of your target and range.....all in my response.

I gave a response on how to use the subject reticle, which wasn't a mil reticle, so my response wasn't dependent on your assumption of my lack of knowledge on Mil. You don't know what I know, own or use.

I don't continue to reply on the subject of Mils or MOA, which you assume I know nothing about. I continue to reply because you gave bad advice when you stated that to use the subject scope, you have to dial it. He's a hunter, wanting to know how to use the scope for hunting that doesn't have a reticle with holds of any type. That was the topic, and my solution was relevant.

You are often wrong, but never in doubt. You should cut your losses and admit that you were wrong. But unless you have changed, you'll continue to make personal insults, have your customers dog pile on me and eventually the thread will be locked.

I wouldn't think of me so much as illiterate.... Maybe stubborn and lazy... Not illiterate at all. #1 I live within my means and buy the best I can to do a certain job. I'm not going to shoot matches or precision. I'm gonna kill deer, pig, or coyote etc. out to 500 yards or less. I like flat shooting calibers that take a lot of the hold over and wind out of it. 22-250, 25-06, 7mm PRC. I'll stick with those the rest of my life most likely.


At least I found out I might have a problem with the Meopta scope, corrected that by selecting a Athlon scope. Not worried about Athlon scope at all. I know MOA scopes. If I was retired and well off, I would go learn about Mil Mil scopes and how to use them.

At 67 I'll probably just stick to what I know. I've made plenty of high wind adjustments and never had to take a second shot that I can remember to kill a deer out to 432 yards. I can shoot and have used simple duplex scopes all my life. Mostly 3-9x50mm Leupold Vari x2.

I wonder how I can do with this MOA reticle with all the MOA dope from a ballistic chart? I bet even better.

Illiterate was not directed at you. You are trying to be literate, clearly by moving forward with a scope type that has been widely available for well over 20 years.

All ballistics calculations base trajectory from the same parameters.

Caliber
Bullet Weight
Ballistic Coefficient
Muzzle Velocity
Sight Height (measure center of the scope tube to the firing pin, with the bolt face right under the elevation turret. You'll be 1.8" ,1.9", 2.0" 2.1" somewhere in there.
Zero distance. And I zero everything at 100 yards, because you can get it perfect, with no real worry about what the wind is doing.

Then when the calculator has the field for elevation corrections, you plug in MOA. When the calculator has the field for wind corrections, you plug in MOA. Then go shoot those distances to confirm or deny those corrections. If the calculator and what you really shot, DOPE (Data On Previous Engagement) do not match, almost always you can adjust your Muzzle Velocity only, and get the calculator and the DOPE to line up. It is called, "truing the calculator".

But unlike some wood heads around here, you have exact places to hold on the reticle. Not just a long thin line with an educated guess to go by.

On the reticle you have, the bottom of the red portion is 10 MOA.

The calculator might say
200 yards 1 1/4 MOA, so hold the target (animal) at that value, below the center of the reticle
300 yards 2 1/2 MOA
400 yards 5 1/2 MOA
500 yards 8 MOA

You can leave your elevation turret on "0" and hold those values, if you prefer to hold.