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Re: Ruger SFAR .308 [Re: QuitShootinYoungBucks] #8796458 02/06/23 05:34 PM
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No, just using the factory muzzle brake.


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Re: Ruger SFAR .308 [Re: GusWayne] #8796678 02/06/23 11:13 PM
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Here is my update…

I came home to clean the gun, ran a snake 4-5 passes w bore scrubber, ran 3-4 patches until the last came out clean.

Then got to thinking…this gun has an adjustable gas block. I went and found the manual….

So I went back out to my range and picked up the brass to inspect it

I was clearly over gassing the piss out of this rifle, I’ve never had an adjustable gas block and didn’t think about it trying to run it suppressed.

So my Google trail shows and over gassed gun can cause accuracy issues.

Here is the damaged brass and all the pieces are damaged the same, here is the owners manual. I was running it on dial 3 and it should be run suppresses on dial 1 bang

I will still run different loads the next chance I get. But maybe this could explain some of the groups I saw yesterday

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Re: Ruger SFAR .308 [Re: GusWayne] #8796679 02/06/23 11:18 PM
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A little better pic of some brass

[Linked Image]

Re: Ruger SFAR .308 [Re: GusWayne] #8796692 02/06/23 11:41 PM
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I will add that the brass deflector is pretty mauled up for just around 40 rounds, that brass damage and the deflector marks are telling

Re: Ruger SFAR .308 [Re: GusWayne] #8796695 02/06/23 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by GusWayne
Here is my update…

I came home to clean the gun, ran a snake 4-5 passes w bore scrubber, ran 3-4 patches until the last came out clean.

Then got to thinking…this gun has an adjustable gas block. So I went and found the manual….

I was clearly over gassing the piss out of this rifle, I’ve never had an adjustable gas block and didn’t think about it trying to run it suppressed.

So my Google trail shows and over gassed gun can cause accuracy issues.

Here is the damaged brass and all the pieces are damaged the same, here is the owners manual. I was running it on dial 3 and it should be run suppresses on dial 1 bang

I will still run different loads the next chance I get. But maybe this could explain some of the groups I saw yesterday

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]



I posted this over on the Long Range Hunting forum yesterday. Maybe it will help

Quote
Kind of a long post but I remember better if I write it...

I found the brass from the 3rd test shot. It was a little forward of where I was standing. To me that says the buffer weight is still too high at 3 oz. And... that is apparently wrong.

I found the following in an article found HERE:
Quote
The easiest way to know what effect your buffer weight has on the rifle is to look at the ejection pattern:

Think of your muzzle at 12 o'clock and the buttstock as 6 o'clock.
If the casings are flying out from the 12 to 3 o'clock positions, likely your firearm is over gassed with too light of a buffer.

From 3 to 4:30 (about a 45-degree angle from the ejection port) you're good to go.
Any further back to about the 6 o'clock position, i.e. hitting you, your buffer may be too light or the rifle is leaking gas in which case it cannot fully eject the casing with the proper force and you're soon going to experience feeding issues.

If you have anything but perfect ejection, the simplest and cheapest method of seeking a correction is to check your AR10 buffer weight, then try a heavier buffer.


You would need to see the thread for this to make sense: I converted all of the grams to oz's. The only reason I used grams was that's what the digital scale I have was set to. I don't mind metric... it's just a number. When all of the buffer weight articles are written with oz's it's time to convert smile

Aero Precision Buffer weight: 3.8 oz
Geissele Buffer weight: 4.3 oz
Removing the lightest weight in the Geissele (makes it rattle): 3.07 oz

I haven't tried the lightened Geissele buffer. I think I'll wait for the Odin Works adjustable buffer to get here or put the Geissele back to where it was. Either way I'll install the adjustable gas block.

These are the two commonly supplied buffer weights. The Geissele buffer that I bought is an H2 and that's typical for a carbine length AR10.

The following info was found HERE:

Heavy or H1:
Consists of one tungsten and two steel weights. Weighs around 3.8 oz.

H2:
Typically composed of two tungsten and one steel weight and weighs about 4.6 oz.

H3:
Normally uses three tungsten weights to weigh around 5.6 oz.

Rifle buffer:
Weighs around 5.0 oz and uses five steel weights and a steel spacer.

Configurable:
You can use different combinations of the included parts to tune your buffer weight to your needs.

If I understand all of this right, the original Geissele buffer, which was the heaviest of the buffers that I have on hand, and an adjustable gas block to let me adjust the amount of gas, should get ejection where it needs to be. This is why I prefer bolt guns laugh


Later that evening I found JP Enterprises, Inc I'm trying to solve a suppressed vs unsuppressed 8.6 Blackout problem. They make a different kind of buffer assembly that I'm going to try (JPSCS2-10H2). I think your problem is just a matter of tuning the adjustable gas block. When I put the factory Geissele H2 and spring in and fired a round it land at about the 2 o'clock position relative to the direction I aimed. That means that I was over gassing. I don't have an adjustable gas block at the moment so a heavier buffer weight would be the next thing to try. I ordered one but I think I'll wait for the JP Precision Silent Capture spring to get here. I had hoped to reload the brass that I shot. So far only 1 piece of 4 has survived testing.


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Re: Ruger SFAR .308 [Re: GusWayne] #8796755 02/07/23 01:03 AM
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My SFAR won't cycle consistently on the #2 gas setting even when running hot loads so I leave it on #3. It seems to prefer mild loads, possibly due to the dual ejectors. Some on this forum say dual ejectors cause pressure issues or shows pressure signs earlier.

If you're running a suppressor, you should probably be running on the #1 gas setting.

Last edited by BigDad; 02/07/23 01:20 AM.

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Re: Ruger SFAR .308 [Re: BigDad] #8796767 02/07/23 01:19 AM
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Originally Posted by BigDad
My SFAR won't cycle consistently on the #2 gas setting even when running hot loads so I leave it on #3. It seems to prefer mild loads, possibly due to the dual ejectors. Some on this forum say dual ejectors cause pressure issues or shows pressure signs earlier.


Interesting, I am still keeping an open mind on this

I really had high hopes for this being what I was after

I will still run my test(s) spoke of earlier as soon as I can

Mine is clean, lubed and ready for the next range day

The adjustable gas block has been adjusted

Re: Ruger SFAR .308 [Re: GusWayne] #8796816 02/07/23 02:20 AM
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Dual ejectors are a solution looking for a problem.

Major fail, they actually cause a problem, that would not have been there.

28 Nosler and 300 PRC that are showing pressure on factory ammo. Then I got them, and dropped powder charge lower than I normally would have started and worked back up. I got them to shoot well, and reliably cycle, while not tearing up brass. But thr dual ejector rifles are running a bit milder powder charge than rifles with one ejector.


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Re: Ruger SFAR .308 [Re: GusWayne] #8800238 02/12/23 04:59 PM
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Ive got a mini update coming....

I found 1/2 a box of ammo from when I owned a .308 a few years ago

Re: Ruger SFAR .308 [Re: GusWayne] #8800262 02/12/23 05:32 PM
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I’m on to something here…

1st, I’ve misplace my calipers

So, here is what I have done since the terrible 3”-4” groups last week.

Between work and the pig contest I haven’t had any time to run and get more ammo to try but I did find 10, 165 Federals from when I owned another .308 a few years ago.

-I cleaned it good
-adjusted the gas block according to Rugers guidelines
-I think I stumbled upon the biggest reason why this rifle shot so poorly

The rifle shot much better but I did have 2 failure to feeds in 10 rounds.

Pic 1, I started at 50 yards…remember I only have 10 rounds to play w here…
[Linked Image]

Pic 2, I moved back to 100 yards…hmmm
[Linked Image]

Things are going ok…

Pic 3, another 3 round group…oh hell starting to open back up

[Linked Image]

Pic 4, figured out why and that’s all my ammo…but I am on the issue now

[Linked Image]

Re: Ruger SFAR .308 [Re: GusWayne] #8800270 02/12/23 05:39 PM
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I think the biggest issue I have found is in the barrel harmonics…

When I got the rifle I took the nut and muzzle break off and screwed on suppressor, just like this.

[Linked Image]

So I have been thinking about this all week and today, I screwed the nut back on and then suppressor, like this

[Linked Image]

Also everything was tight in groups 1 and 2 above.

Group 3, the groups opened up and I was a little baffled. But I grabbed the end of the suppressor and hand torqued it and noticed had ever so slightly loosened up and I mean this would be measure in fractions…barley loose. So after tightening the suppressor back up. It shot about 1” groups in the last group of 3 round pics I posted above.

That’s where I am today, the barrel does seem super sensitive and if everything isn’t right this rifle won’t shoot worth a crap

More testing to come when I get ammo

Re: Ruger SFAR .308 [Re: GusWayne] #8800283 02/12/23 05:58 PM
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-clean it
-leave the threaded nut on barrel
-adjust gas block
-make sure suppressor is super snug

Now, I need to try a few more grains and see what it likes best

But I had intentions of making this my day time pig rig and it aint there yet...even for pigs

Re: Ruger SFAR .308 [Re: GusWayne] #8800318 02/12/23 06:54 PM
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Did you try unsuppressed?

If the barrel is really that sensitive that suppressor is probably throwing it all out of whack. Also I can’t really tell from the picture but if that is a crush washer you’re putting behind the suppressor remove it. Don’t shoot with a suppressor and crush washer. They’re meant to crush so they aren’t concentric to the barrel. Could get a baffle strike or even worse blow up your suppressor.


[Linked Image]



Re: Ruger SFAR .308 [Re: GusWayne] #8800393 02/12/23 08:51 PM
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Why are you using a nut in addition to the suppressor? There should be nothing between your direct thread mount and the shoulder on the barrel. Thread it on, and crank that sucker down so it won't move when the barrel heats up.

Last edited by HicksHunter; 02/12/23 08:52 PM.
Re: Ruger SFAR .308 [Re: KRoyal] #8800441 02/12/23 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by KRoyal
Did you try unsuppressed?

If the barrel is really that sensitive that suppressor is probably throwing it all out of whack. Also I can’t really tell from the picture but if that is a crush washer you’re putting behind the suppressor remove it. Don’t shoot with a suppressor and crush washer. They’re meant to crush so they aren’t concentric to the barrel. Could get a baffle strike or even worse blow up your suppressor.


It is not a crush washer, here are some better pics

What cause the possible thought of harmonics being an issue is that nut originally wasn’t easy to get off but wasn’t hard. I just originally believed it all needed coming off w the suppressor.

Then I got to thinking I’ve never saw basically a 2 piece muzzle break and wonder if that nut wasn’t supposed to stay.

The rifle for sure shot better w it on, it suddenly got worse when the suppressor got slightly loose and then again shot about a 1” group with the nut and suppressor tight.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Re: Ruger SFAR .308 [Re: HicksHunter] #8800443 02/12/23 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by HicksHunter
Why are you using a nut in addition to the suppressor? There should be nothing between your direct thread mount and the shoulder on the barrel. Thread it on, and crank that sucker down so it won't move when the barrel heats up.


That’s what I originally did and got 3” to 4” groups

Re: Ruger SFAR .308 [Re: GusWayne] #8800444 02/12/23 10:11 PM
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This is how I had it and got good groups, see that I have the nut added

It’s just my belief so far that the barrel gets out of whack without it

Now, I still need to shoot a few more boxes but it appears to be the case.

I’ve never saw such in my life

[Linked Image]

Re: Ruger SFAR .308 [Re: GusWayne] #8800448 02/12/23 10:25 PM
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And all week id get home at night and get on a Google trail or YouTube trail over this

Then after watching all these videos and reading I remembered 1 guy who gave a good review of his SFAR showed a good video of the entire rifle set up

So I went back and found that video and sure enough I could see that he left that nut on while he shot suppressed...

Re: Ruger SFAR .308 [Re: GusWayne] #8800486 02/12/23 11:28 PM
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Gotcha, just a timing nut for the brake. Like Hicks said there should be nothing between your suppressor and barrel shoulder. I understand it shoots like crap without it, but this is a bandaid work around. I’d be contacting Ruger if I were you.


[Linked Image]



Re: Ruger SFAR .308 [Re: KRoyal] #8800523 02/13/23 12:34 AM
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Originally Posted by KRoyal
Gotcha, just a timing nut for the brake. Like Hicks said there should be nothing between your suppressor and barrel shoulder. I understand it shoots like crap without it, but this is a bandaid work around. I’d be contacting Ruger if I were you.


10-4

When I get the time, Ill give it 4-5 boxes of various good stuff

I almost went w the Sig Tread .308 at the time of purchase too bang

Id probably be making a ragged hole w ammo by now if I had of

Re: Ruger SFAR .308 [Re: GusWayne] #8800577 02/13/23 01:43 AM
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A QD mount would solve the suppressor coming loose problem. I dislike direct thread for that very reason, I’ve never not had one loosed after a shooting. We torque every muzzle device down to a certain ft/lb, yet we trust our hands to tighten down a suppressor properly rolleyes


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Re: Ruger SFAR .308 [Re: GusWayne] #8801076 02/13/23 08:01 PM
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Stupid question, but how do you brace the muzzle during testing? Bipod? And rear bag, Y or N?

Are you using a long magazine, 10 rounder, or single loading?

I've got a box of 168 grain FGMM I'd donate to the cause if you're local. That's not a pig (or game) round, but that's all I could get the neighbor's to shoot.


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Re: Ruger SFAR .308 [Re: GusWayne] #8802429 02/16/23 01:18 AM
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How loose is the thread fit on the suppressor? I ask because on my 243s, which are dpms g2s, the threads were a pretty sloppy fit and accuracy was so-so. I decided to wrap 3 wraps of teflon tape like plumbers use around the threads and the tight threads resulted in an amazing improvement in accuracy and the suppressor no longer comes loose on it's own.

Any looseness will definitely ruin accuracy. So can being significantly overgassed. The course gas block adjustments might be what I dislike most about the SFAR, just from reading about it so far.

Re: Ruger SFAR .308 [Re: GusWayne] #8803234 02/17/23 02:18 PM
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A large frame AR is difficult to shoot well to begin with, much less one that weighs 7 pounds.

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