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Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#7051525
01/24/18 08:32 PM
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 5,938
Jgraider
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This is a thread about bullet performance characteristics.
Why do you maneuver every thread to end up (and usually then end period) with you telling everyone how great a shot you are? Geez. We get it.
Because that's his identity. Sad isn't it?
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Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets
[Re: Jgraider]
#7051526
01/24/18 08:34 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,206
J.G.
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Whole lot in this thread worried about relying heavily on bullet construction, instead of putting a bullet where one wants it. That's because not everyone hunts of out of stands, blinds, trees, etc over feed or green fields. If a guy has hunted enough he knows there are no absolutes, stuff happens, etc. I'd guess probably half of the 45 muley bucks I've killed were moving in one way or another. I can assure you I can make a steady shot with nothing but a backpack in hand. Might not even need that. Lots of assumptions you made there. Talk to anyone that's been out with me for a day, and ask the strange things I have at the range to shoot off of. That carries right over into hunting. I hit a hog at 343 yards a few evenings agao, standing, with the rifle rested on a hackberry limb. Try again. Then that doesn't apply to you then does it? I've had over 150 hunters in camp over the past 15 years, and have been hunting myself for over 45 years. I can assure you with absolute certainty that the very vast majority of hunters are much better off the bench that in hunting situations. Well, of course. That's where rifles and ammo are tested. Some-what the person shooting them. As I told you before, I have the luxury of getting to watch Hodnett's "pupils" shoot ever once in a while. It's not a mystery why these guys shoot from prone positions and not off of hackberry limbs, shooting sticks, limbs, free handing it, or anything else you can dream up. So which side are you taking? About 5 minutes ago it was talking about how the less than perfect rest isn't always available. And now, you're already flip-flopping?
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Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets
[Re: J.G.]
#7051528
01/24/18 08:34 PM
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 5,938
Jgraider
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That was a response to his assumptions, which are incorrect. And that is as plain as day, for anyone to see.
But you too want to cause trouble. Nothing new under the sun. So you will shoot just as good of groups off a hackberry limb than you will of the bench at 300 yards? or prone?
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Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets
[Re: Jgraider]
#7051529
01/24/18 08:34 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,206
J.G.
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This is a thread about bullet performance characteristics.
Why do you maneuver every thread to end up (and usually then end period) with you telling everyone how great a shot you are? Geez. We get it.
Because that's his identity. Sad isn't it? Wrong again. I guess you don't get tired of being wrong, since you do it so often.
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Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets
[Re: Jgraider]
#7051530
01/24/18 08:35 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,206
J.G.
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That was a response to his assumptions, which are incorrect. And that is as plain as day, for anyone to see.
But you too want to cause trouble. Nothing new under the sun. So you will shoot just as good of groups off a hackberry limb than you will of the bench at 300 yards? or prone? Again, which side are you taking? You're talking out both sides of your mouth.
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Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets
[Re: redchevy]
#7051536
01/24/18 08:37 PM
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 5,938
Jgraider
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The point is obvious FJG. Having a dead solid rest (bench, blind/stand even prone) in hunting conditions isn't always available. That's why solid bullet construction is the most important aspect of a hunting bullet to many. PERFECT placement, rests, etc doesn't always happen. That's as simple as I can make it.
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Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets
[Re: J.G.]
#7051538
01/24/18 08:38 PM
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 5,938
Jgraider
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That was a response to his assumptions, which are incorrect. And that is as plain as day, for anyone to see.
But you too want to cause trouble. Nothing new under the sun. So you will shoot just as good of groups off a hackberry limb than you will of the bench at 300 yards? or prone? Again, which side are you taking? You're talking out both sides of your mouth. Answer the question. Since I already know the answer is that you, nor anyone else can consistently do it, many see the need for a premium bullet to crush through bone, etc, which was the premise of my posts, because of this stupid comment. Whole lot in this thread worried about relying heavily on bullet construction, instead of putting a bullet where one wants it.
Last edited by Jgraider; 01/24/18 08:41 PM.
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Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets
[Re: redchevy]
#7051560
01/24/18 08:49 PM
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,100
TackDriver
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Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets
[Re: TackDriver]
#7051574
01/24/18 08:57 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,568
redchevy
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Me too! I'm not diving into that. I just think that had I used a 100 grain partition instead of a 100 grain sierra I would have had straight line penetration on both of these deer. A relative non issue as they both still dies where they stood and didn't move... but still I don't like how the bullets performed.
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets
[Re: redchevy]
#7051580
01/24/18 09:00 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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Me too! I'm not diving into that. I just think that had I used a 100 grain partition instead of a 100 grain sierra I would have had straight line penetration on both of these deer. A relative non issue as they both still dies where they stood and didn't move... but still I don't like how the bullets performed. I’m sure you’re right.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets
[Re: Jgraider]
#7051592
01/24/18 09:05 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,206
J.G.
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That was a response to his assumptions, which are incorrect. And that is as plain as day, for anyone to see.
But you too want to cause trouble. Nothing new under the sun. So you will shoot just as good of groups off a hackberry limb than you will of the bench at 300 yards? or prone? Again, which side are you taking? You're talking out both sides of your mouth. Answer the question. Since I already know the answer is that you, nor anyone else can consistently do it, many see the need for a premium bullet to crush through bone, etc, which was the premise of my posts, because of this stupid comment. Whole lot in this thread worried about relying heavily on bullet construction, instead of putting a bullet where one wants it. Like shooting a deer in the butt?
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Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets
[Re: redchevy]
#7051599
01/24/18 09:08 PM
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 5,938
Jgraider
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Like shooting them anywhere other than EXACTLY where you are aiming.
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Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets
[Re: redchevy]
#7051604
01/24/18 09:11 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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One day you will miss, JG. Or choke. Or get buck fever. Or take a raking shot because that’s all you have and you’re confident you can make it and put the animal down.
You may have already. But, of course, we will never know about it.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets
[Re: redchevy]
#7051614
01/24/18 09:19 PM
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 618
Texasteach
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I think that JG's point is that there is a lot of difference in chasing mulies in the sandhills and whitetails at the feeder. Sometimes mulies don't wait for that opportunity to give you the perfect shot angle or to even get to anything other than a "snapshot" position. I have "leather cherried" a few mulies that were jumped and were two bounces from being gone. That's why I want a bullet that will go from stem to stern.
On the other hand, from a steady rest, and waiting for the animal to give a good shot opportunity, accuracy becomes an important factor. That is why I believe in not only matching the bullet to the game, but also matching the bullet to the "worst case scenario".
Personally, I love shooting a precision rifle from a solid rest with a good bullet. Something wonderful about waiting that split second for the sound to reverberate back to you letting you know of a solid hit. But my rifle for hunting mulies in the sandhills of my homestate of NM is a 20" barreled Ruger 77 Boat Paddle Ultralight shooting 165 grain Accubonds. I know that I can expect penetration if that big wide SOB is "stotting" over the next dune. YMMV
You did what?
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Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#7051622
01/24/18 09:26 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,206
J.G.
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One day you will miss, JG. Or choke. Or get buck fever. Or take a raking shot because that’s all you have and you’re confident you can make it and put the animal down.
You may have already. But, of course, we will never know about it.
Of course I already have. That's why I shoot as much as I do, to get better prepared, and reduce the chances of that happening.
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Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets
[Re: redchevy]
#7051623
01/24/18 09:27 PM
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 5,938
Jgraider
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Well said Tteach. I really thought the "worst case scenario" concept was very basic.
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Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#7051626
01/24/18 09:29 PM
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 5,938
Jgraider
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One day you will miss, JG. Or choke. Or get buck fever. Or take a raking shot because that’s all you have and you’re confident you can make it and put the animal down.
You may have already. But, of course, we will never know about it.
People that haven't missed, or misplaced a shot, or choked on a shot either haven't hunted much, have shot all their game from a dead solid hunting blind type setup, or aren't telling the truth. Out of the 300 or so big game animals I've killed, I've [censored]-shot, gut shot, missed, and even crippled a few that required follow up shots. I certainly didn't intend to, but stuff happens.
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Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets
[Re: redchevy]
#7051629
01/24/18 09:30 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,206
J.G.
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Had to be going 3300'ish at impact, which was through rear ham, penetrated the length of his body and was found under the off side skin at base of neck. Yeah, if I was going to try to shoot one in the hind quarter, I would want a very strong bullet going fast. But, it's a crap shot, and no one on this forum would admit to trying it. The vitals aren't in the hind quarters, they're in front of the diaphragm, and just below the head. That's my point.
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Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets
[Re: redchevy]
#7051634
01/24/18 09:33 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,959
ChadTRG42
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Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets
[Re: J.G.]
#7051640
01/24/18 09:37 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,568
redchevy
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Had to be going 3300'ish at impact, which was through rear ham, penetrated the length of his body and was found under the off side skin at base of neck. Yeah, if I was going to try to shoot one in the hind quarter, I would want a very strong bullet going fast. But, it's a crap shot, and no one on this forum would admit to trying it. The vitals aren't in the hind quarters, they're in front of the diaphragm, and just below the head. That's my point. What kind of ammo do you carry in your CC weapon?
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets
[Re: J.G.]
#7051650
01/24/18 09:44 PM
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 5,938
Jgraider
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Had to be going 3300'ish at impact, which was through rear ham, penetrated the length of his body and was found under the off side skin at base of neck. Yeah, if I was going to try to shoot one in the hind quarter, I would want a very strong bullet going fast. But, it's a crap shot, and no one on this forum would admit to trying it. The vitals aren't in the hind quarters, they're in front of the diaphragm, and just below the head. That's my point. He killed it dead as a hammer with that shot. Sometimes animals are actually moving when taking a shot. Once you've hunted enough you'll understand.
Last edited by Jgraider; 01/24/18 09:46 PM.
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Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets
[Re: redchevy]
#7051671
01/24/18 09:55 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,206
J.G.
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Had to be going 3300'ish at impact, which was through rear ham, penetrated the length of his body and was found under the off side skin at base of neck. Yeah, if I was going to try to shoot one in the hind quarter, I would want a very strong bullet going fast. But, it's a crap shot, and no one on this forum would admit to trying it. The vitals aren't in the hind quarters, they're in front of the diaphragm, and just below the head. That's my point. What kind of ammo do you carry in your CC weapon? Speer Gold Dot, FMJ, Speer Gold Dot, ect.
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Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets
[Re: Jgraider]
#7051673
01/24/18 09:55 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,206
J.G.
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Had to be going 3300'ish at impact, which was through rear ham, penetrated the length of his body and was found under the off side skin at base of neck. Yeah, if I was going to try to shoot one in the hind quarter, I would want a very strong bullet going fast. But, it's a crap shot, and no one on this forum would admit to trying it. The vitals aren't in the hind quarters, they're in front of the diaphragm, and just below the head. That's my point. He killed it dead as a hammer with that shot. Sometimes animals are actually moving when taking a shot. Once you've hunted enough you'll understand.
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Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets
[Re: J.G.]
#7051685
01/24/18 10:01 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,586
ckat
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Had to be going 3300'ish at impact, which was through rear ham, penetrated the length of his body and was found under the off side skin at base of neck. Yeah, if I was going to try to shoot one in the hind quarter, I would want a very strong bullet going fast. But, it's a crap shot, and no one on this forum would admit to trying it. The vitals aren't in the hind quarters, they're in front of the diaphragm, and just below the head. That's my point. I have no ego to stroke. I have purposely shot more than one animal from stern to bow. Never lost a single one, and don't plan on ever losing one with that shot. It is DEADLY. You run a good bullet out of an adequate rifle from tailpipe to engine, and that animal dies, quickly. Sure, the gut job is nasty, but I can live with that for a few minutes.
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Re: Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets
[Re: redchevy]
#7051698
01/24/18 10:06 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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There's also the matter of follow up shots on tough and/or dangerous game.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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