Why I don’t trust cup and core bullets

Shot a doe this weekend. Neck shot with a 243 win 100 grain Sierra Prohunter less than 100 yards. Perfect broad side shot entrance dead center of neck, bullet went in hit bone and blew out top of neck did not break the spine, fortunately she fell down and bled out. Have used these before without issue. I like a bullet I can trust to work every time. Had I taken a body shot and hit a shoulder it may have never penetrated the chest cavity. Long live partitions!
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Obviously, you need to move up to a .338 WinMag.

223 and a 60 grain partition would have made it through

A 6.5 Criedmoor would never have done that.

Redchevy, I just tried to order some 60 gr Partitions, but all the places I tried were out of stock.

I just worked up a load with the Partitions (I had most of one box) and will try them out on some pigs. I’ll be stingy with them till I can get more.

Wait, so she wasn't dead?

I don't think she'd be deader with partitions

I’d be pretty upset about that neck roast, too.

Shot placement was too far from the brain stem.

Totally ineffective, back to drawing board.

Neck = sausage meat or a good place to put a bullet.

Point isn’t that the deer isn’t dead, it is if I would have taken a shoulder shot and hit the front leg and the bullet hit bone and changed course like that and just rolled up the shoulder blade no vitals would be hit and it would probably be a lost animal.

They do what they are suppose to some of the time or part of the time but if you hit bone it’s a gamble.

I think every doe I've ever shot in the brain stem has been with an A-max. Maybe 20 by now. Every time the main breaker was switched off, dead before they hit the ground.

Reminds me of that 200 plus pound hog I shot two Fridays ago, right behind the ear and out the other with an Accubond and leaving a pierced ear on exit.

Bullet tumble from hitting something on way to target?

Sure this one did to, we all know however not all shots are in the all mighty brain stem.

If you dont want to mess up neck meat, don't aim at neck meat.

I shot at the neck precisely because I think neck meat on a doe is not worth much anyway, sneaky is the one with the love affair with neck roast, I’ll pass.

Was shooting in the wide open nothing there to hit.

Yes, you could call it a love affair. My wife can cook a mean roast with a deer’s neck. I don’t like seeing them explode in that manner.

On a good day my wife could make hamburger helper.

I have shot several deer in the neck, shoulder and chest with the Prohunter 150 gr in a 30-06 and never had one not exit after hitting bone. It's been 17 years since I used that rifle, maybe they have changed.

I’d probably shoot them in the neck, too, then.

Not a 30-06 and not a prohunter, but I have had similar instances with larger bullets. Few years ago I shot a 150 or so lb boar on the trot with my 270 and 150 grain hornady interlocks. Hit the front right shoulder broad side, broke the on side leg but turned and followed the rib cage into the guts. Hog never fell and started running. Had I not got another round in him probably never would have found that one either.

I have been mostly happy with the prohunters up till now, but there is a reason I have a box of 100 grain partitions waiting on the bench. Will have to tweak my partition load a little if I can as it was the worst shooting of the three I have tried. So far the sierras shoot best followed by the hornady hpbt's and last the partitons, but they are all easily hunting acceptable.

should have used a 50BMG and "SUCKED her EYEBALLS out"

Dang didn't you learn anything from the hunting shows

Hundreds and hundreds of deer i’ve shot over the decades and every last one was shot with cup and core bullets. From the little deer in the Texas Hill Country to the larger ones in South Texas and the big ones in eastern Louisiana, they all died. Same with the hogs in Texas. I shoot em in the lungs. I’ve tried to think of the deer I shot and lost, and I can think of three. (Probably, if my brothers and cousins were here, they’d ‘help’ me remember a few more.) :-)

I will say that my cup and core Nosler BTs are not making it all the way through the 150 to 200 pound hogs. And, I will say that if I ever run out of bullets, i’ll start buying Accubonds.

Actually... I didn't even hit that deer, the bullet wizzed really close to her neck and the shock wave did all the damage

Bullet wizz shock wave.
Is that the new proper term for this eyeball/organ/neck meat sucking phenomenon?

I've seen a Accubond do similar. Hit perfect behind the shoulder but barely clipped a lung on it's turn straight down.

So you're going to trade a cup and core for a bullet with two cups and two cores?

If you shoot enough deer, anything can happen eventually. You can't extrapolate what that bullet would have done in a different location because you didn't shoot it in that location. That's like saying your truck would have gotten better mileage driving on 281 instead of HWY 16. Well, since you didn't drive 281 on that day, with that brand of gas, and that weather, you just don't know. You may have just hit her in the exact right spot, with the muscles and bone at the perfect angles, to deflect any bullet up and out like that.

We killed nearly 200 whitetails at our place with Remington Corelokts and never had a problem with the performance of the bullet itself. But I guess I shouldn't have trusted them.

Stuff happens.

Yes i will readily trade for 2 cores. The partition changes the ball game big time. Ive shot quite a few critters in my day enough to know that sometimes i get a 6 inch exit with a cup and core soft point out of my 270 and sometimes no exit with the same bullet and shot placement. The consistency is all over the board. The partition for me has done the exact same thing every time from 223 to 300 wby. On every one that i have recovered (only one out of an animal, i have intentionally lined up many deer/hogs with trees so i can recover a bullet) the front core expands and sheds reducing the retained weight to just over 60% and the rear core remains intact and penetrates. I have never recovered one with an intact first core. That is why i love them, they readily expand and they always penetrate.

I agree stuff does happen. Some say i like x bullet because i always shoot through the ribs, well if you hit the shoulder stuff happens not with a partition it will perform great on either. For what people spend on hunting stuff and how its almost cool now a days to spend more on stuff just because i cant figure why so many people shoot the cheapest bullets they can get. I have seen first hand what the results are of using them. I'm a tinkerer and reloader so I am always messing with the next thing or some other bullet. My brother and dad have refused to shoot anything other than partitions because of their observations with the other bullets. They are not fancy, they are not flashy, they are not the new hot thing on the market, but i do think since their inception they have yet to be rivaled as the ultimate all around hunting bullet.

I was just giving you a bit of grief, RC. I can understand why you like the Partitions-why didn't you have one in that load already? And due to accuracy issued, I've moved on from the Corelokts. The bullets were always great; shoulder-ribs-neck, it didn't seem to matter. The 6-8 I recovered over the years were always just like the picture in the magazines-a perfect mushroom.

The best news is that you got the deer!

Originally bought the 243 as a mostly range gun to get my wife to shoot more. She insists she doesn't like the 243 and likes shooting my 270 better. I bought the prohunters because they were cheap and I had always been well pleased with sierra's accuracy and figured if I ended up taking it hunting it would suffice, which it has.

I cant count the number of 1/2 shot boxes of bullets on my loading bench and a year or so ago I decided I would shoot them till they were gone. I think I have a dozen or so of the sierras left then they will be gone. After them I have a 100 round box of hornady btsp's with 25 missing that is on the shoot list and finally I will start with the partitions. My best load with the Sierras is 40 grains of IMR 4350, I decided after I pillar bedded it to take 5 of each of the sierras hornady's and partitions loaded over the same 40 grain charge seated to the same depth and see how they shot. The sierras were best followed closely by the hornadys and the partitions brought up the rear, but they were all sub moa at 100 yards, I was really surprised, rifle seems to like that charge with a 100 grain bullet. I will tweak a little to see if I can improve the partition load in the future.

Partitions are the closest thing to a perfect hunting bullet that exists IMO. They work as they are designed to every time. There's a reason every bullet maker has been trying to emulate partition performance for 65 years now.

Barnes TTSX's are now the bullet of choice for every one of my rifles except for one. Partitions are another excellent all around choice, but not every rifle shoots them well. The TTSX's are very accurate in every one of my rifles. Note - my comment only applies to the Tipped TSX, not the previous version the TSX.

I never thought much of the accuracy of Partitions. I tried them in my 223’s first barrel and used a long list of powders, but groups weren’t great. Yesterday as I caught up on loading all the ammo the grandkids shot up, I decided to try some Partitions in the new barrel. I had H335 in the thrower, so I went with that. At near max I found a great load that amazingly prints right where the 40 gr BTs print. I’m happy.

I read that the solid copper bullets causes lot of fouling over time, do you have any fouling issues?

Which Pro Hunter bullet?
RN, SPT, SMP, FN or HP/FN



And this;

Really depends on the barrel. The current Barnes TTSX's foul less than the previous versions. In my MRC's, the TTSX's foul no more so than anything else. In my Accuracy International barrel, they cause lots of fouling, which is the one rifle I do not use them for hunting. That barrel has over 4,000 rounds through it, so maybe that is a factor? The Barnes Copper Solvent makes quick work of removing the copper or else use Wipe Out overnight. They are not a bullet that is going to be used in a high round count scenario, so it really is not an issue.

Like most I concur the partition is as reliable as a hunting bullet gets. That said for deer I mostly shoot cup and core and Sierra's are some of my favorites. They perform different than a bonded bullet. If they are loaded up around 3000 fps you may very likely have the core and jacket seperate at close range. On a broad side shot, not taking on large bone, you can expect substantially larger exits if you get one, as well as more damage from a cup and core. The 243 is a wonderfully effective little cartridge, but it does garner the reputation of erratic terminal performance on big game from time to time. No question the partition along with other premium bullets somewhat mitigates that. Especially when taking on large bone or marginal angles with small fast cartridges. The cup and core is at is best on deer with heavy for caliber bullets in larger calibers, shooting heavier slugs. FWIW I would not have been afraid to take the same shot with prohunters out of a 243.....It does appear to have worked out ok.....experience tells me that same shot to the base of the cranium or the brain pan would have been instant lights out.

Reliable, depending on where shot placement is intended. They are notorious for not shooting very tight. And I don't mean groups, I mean same CBS, same POI every time. When the target area on an animal is very, very small, maybe they aren't the bullet to choose.

Whew... you saved me a lot of typing!!

No disagreement from me. I went through it last summer, trying to work up a load for a 7 RM. Eventually punted it cause i could not get it to shoot well enough to suit me. BUT if you get partitions shooting to your satisfaction, they have few equals for on game performance. The argument could be made that the light fast cartridges like 243/6mm get the biggest boost on deer size game from bonded core bullets.

Could you explain that?

When they hit what someone meant for them to hit, there's no denying they work great. But if the load just doesn't shoot tight enough for a guy to be able to put them where he wants them, then they aren't doing much good.

Months ago, remember, I went through more work than usual to get my AR-15 to shoot 60 gr Partitions well. And I finally got a decent load. Really the best of the worst. Four days ago, same exact powder lot, same exact rifle and scope but 55 gr Sierra Game King spire point boattail. The Game Kings shot well inside the Partitions. Like, grouped half as large. Though I have am unusal 1:9, it should have zero trouble stabilizing a 60 gr bullet. In fact, I should be able to go with an even longer bullet than 60 gr. The nature of the Partition, is they don't shoot tight for many rifles. It comes down to different strokes for different folks.

In the case of my AR-15, I loaded about 100 of the Partitions. Once those are shot, I will not buy more, as I have 700 SGKs on the shelf, that go where I tell them to go.

Now, if a person has a Partition load that'll stay inside 8" out to 200 yards, they will probably do exactly what he needs them to do, every time they are lined up on lungs of big animals.

Didn't you also do most of your load work up either jamming them or with very little jump? They like a jump and quite a bit of it in my experience. I guess I have never experienced the side of them that has been hard to get them to shoot.

2 270 Winchesters, a 280 rem, a 223, 2- 243's, and a 300 wby will all shoot them an inch or less with little to no load work up. They are also all factory original except the 2 243's one has been pillar bedded and the other pillar/glass bedded. They will all super easily do better than 8" at 200.

When I reloaded for the 223, I had been shooting federal premium 60 grain partitions before. I took one of the factory loads set my seating die off of it. Looked at my load data for the powder I had and loaded the powder charge that most closely mimicked the speed of the factory load about 3050 fps and that is it. It shoots really well, easily under an inch if I can do my part and that's with a cheap arse ADL and factory trigger.

I was also probably 12-15 at the time, not exactly sure.

The Partitions jumped, and the SGKs jumped. The Partitions just didn't shoot well in that particular rifle.

Shot another doe this weekend. 150 yards same gun same bullets. Placed behind the shoulder quartering away. I shot from an elevated stand. Bullet entered mid body behind shoulder, hit inside of shoulder on the off side and traveled up the shoulder blade through the far side back strap and exited between the tops of the shoulder blade on the top of the back. Up till this had really been pretty pleased with the prohunters, but am very glad they will be all used up long before next deer season.

Excellent, I never tried the Pro Hunters, but Sierra has some nice bullets especially the Gamekings.

The Pro Hunters are flat based, how much difference from the Game Kings with a boat tail at long distances before you see a drop? I am sure not much under 300 yards.

Game kings should be better at long range. I bought prohunters because ill probably never shoot over 300 yards and prohunters are supposed to be a little heavier constructed than the gamekings.

I did put them on paper at 200 yards this weekend. I managed a 2 inch group... after falling in a tractor rut and spraining my ankle pretty badly and a 25 mph crosswind.

Plus, I don’t take neck shots where you have several vastly different mediums the bullet may encounter within a 3-4” area. My .270 likes a 150 grain cup and core bullet.

I get your love for NPs as they are great bullets. My issue is the few rifles I have tried them with always shot something else that would also work well for my intended use more accurately. Similar to what Fireman outlined above.

The problem here started with a .243 and not cup and core bullets

A partition is about the best of both worlds as you can get with a hunting bullet. IME it doesn’t produce the shock that a more explosive bullet does but that’s the trade off. Been shooting accubonds the past 4 years and haven’t been that impressed over cup and core, but maybe they do help at higher velocities. Pass thrus are an issue for them

I’m a cup and core fan in standard calibers

My thoughts too. As a general rule, I use tougher bullets (TSX, TTSX/ABs) in the smaller calibers (.257 and below), cup and cores/ABs in medium calibers (.270-300) and usually back to tougher ones in the medium heavy/heavy calibers.

I would not hesitate to use NPs for almost any use if I ever find a rifle that likes them as well or better than other choices. NPs and ABs are good, versatile bullets that fit many applications.

There are many other options in the various categories I’m just listing the ones I have the most familiarity with.

I don’t handload so that limits me.

I’ve had similar results with various cup and cores in 270’s and 280’s as well. Heck even a 300 mag but I was shooting a bullet not intended for the velocity I was using it at, 220 round noses don’t like 300 why velocity.

Partitions shoot really well in all my guns and within the ranges I will shoot game are more than accurate enough and provide the consistent performance I’m looking for on game.

Last year my wife shot her buck and hit a cattle panel 10-20 feet in front of the deer, the partition stopped just under the far side skin with some small pieces exiting. I don’t think the same could be said of many bullets and maybe not even that one again, I have the utmost confidence in them and that’s why I use them.

I’ve seen Accubonds penetrate from one end of a deer to the other at some very high speeds. They did a lot of damage, but that’s to be expected. I’ve always been impressed with them.

at 100yrds any 243 bullet on the market better do its job

my little girl shot a doe at 100yrds this weekend with 50gr barnes out of a 22-250... she was quartered away it went in through the last rib and though the vitals and exited through the front point of the opposite shoulder

I agree. While both these technically did their job, both resulted in a DRT deer, hitting the spine and going around and hitting a shoulder blade and going around weren't satisfactory to me. That 22-250 is what that 50 grain tsx is made for.

Those mono metals will penetrate for days.

Killed an handul of animals with my .257 wby shooting 110 grain accubonds.

Only pass thru I got was on a low neck shot. I find the bullet oftentimes mushroomed under the hide, including a big bull elk I shot, which is impressive. But never a full passthru

For what it’s worth these arnt broadside lung shot animals though, save for the elk. They are shoulder or quartering shots mostly

I agree Sneaky. I have been equally impressed. This bullet came from a big mule deer buck my buddy shot at a whopping distance of 30 yds.....jumped him out of a sandhill and pasted him with his 140 AB our of his 7STW. Had to be going 3300'ish at impact, which was through rear ham, penetrated the length of his body and was found under the off side skin at base of neck. Still weighed 86 grains.

Whole lot in this thread worried about relying heavily on bullet construction, instead of putting a bullet where one wants it.

That’s just what I’d expect at Weatherby velocities. I love finding the bullet under the hide.

JGraider, that is one fine looking mushroom.

I will say this about the accubonds, when you pull them out of the animal they look exactly like you would expect them too as advertised

That's because not everyone hunts of out of stands, blinds, trees, etc over feed or green fields. If a guy has hunted enough he knows there are no absolutes, stuff happens, etc. I'd guess probably half of the 45 muley bucks I've killed were moving in one way or another.

Here are some more AB's from 5 of the 12 animals I killed in Namibia a couple of years ago. These were the only ones caught, the rest were pass through's from a 7mm Rem mag/ 160 AB combo running 3015 at muzzle. Impacts were from 90-150 yards, and purposely drilled through shoulders. As you guys know, African game's vitals are further forward that our big game.

What does a blind have to do with anything

Dead steady rest, bench rest type shooting, etc

I shoot better off a backpack or shooting sticks than I do off a blind window... shooting out of a blind has got to be the most terrible shooting position other than free hand unless you have a shelf to hold your trigger arm elbow up.

I can assure you I can make a steady shot with nothing but a backpack in hand. Might not even need that. Lots of assumptions you made there. Talk to anyone that's been out with me for a day, and ask the strange things I have at the range to shoot off of. That carries right over into hunting.

I hit a hog at 343 yards a few evenings agao, standing, with the rifle rested on a hackberry limb.

Try again.

I much prefer shooting prone off a bipod down a sendero than off a blind window. If it works out right I can stick my elbow onto something to stabilize it the blind isn't bad, but still not as good as the bipod.

This is a thread about bullet performance characteristics.

Why do you maneuver every thread to end up (and usually then end period) with you telling everyone how great a shot you are? Geez. We get it.

Then that doesn't apply to you then does it? I've had over 150 hunters in camp over the past 15 years, and have been hunting myself for over 45 years. I can assure you with absolute certainty that the very vast majority of hunters are much better off the bench that in hunting situations.

As I told you before, I have the luxury of getting to watch Hodnett's "pupils" shoot ever once in a while. It's not a mystery why these guys shoot from prone positions and not off of hackberry limbs, shooting sticks, limbs, free handing it, or anything else you can dream up.

That was a response to his assumptions, which are incorrect. And that is as plain as day, for anyone to see.

But you too want to cause trouble. Nothing new under the sun.

Because that's his identity. Sad isn't it?

So you will shoot just as good of groups off a hackberry limb than you will of the bench at 300 yards? or prone?

Wrong again. I guess you don't get tired of being wrong, since you do it so often.

Again, which side are you taking? You're talking out both sides of your mouth.

The point is obvious FJG. Having a dead solid rest (bench, blind/stand even prone) in hunting conditions isn't always available. That's why solid bullet construction is the most important aspect of a hunting bullet to many. PERFECT placement, rests, etc doesn't always happen. That's as simple as I can make it.

Answer the question.

Since I already know the answer is that you, nor anyone else can consistently do it, many see the need for a premium bullet to crush through bone, etc, which was the premise of my posts, because of this stupid comment.

Me too! I'm not diving into that.

I just think that had I used a 100 grain partition instead of a 100 grain sierra I would have had straight line penetration on both of these deer. A relative non issue as they both still dies where they stood and didn't move... but still I don't like how the bullets performed.

I’m sure you’re right.

Like shooting a deer in the butt?

Like shooting them anywhere other than EXACTLY where you are aiming.

One day you will miss, JG. Or choke. Or get buck fever. Or take a raking shot because that’s all you have and you’re confident you can make it and put the animal down.

You may have already. But, of course, we will never know about it.

I think that JG's point is that there is a lot of difference in chasing mulies in the sandhills and whitetails at the feeder. Sometimes mulies don't wait for that opportunity to give you the perfect shot angle or to even get to anything other than a "snapshot" position. I have "leather cherried" a few mulies that were jumped and were two bounces from being gone. That's why I want a bullet that will go from stem to stern.

On the other hand, from a steady rest, and waiting for the animal to give a good shot opportunity, accuracy becomes an important factor. That is why I believe in not only matching the bullet to the game, but also matching the bullet to the "worst case scenario".

Personally, I love shooting a precision rifle from a solid rest with a good bullet. Something wonderful about waiting that split second for the sound to reverberate back to you letting you know of a solid hit. But my rifle for hunting mulies in the sandhills of my homestate of NM is a 20" barreled Ruger 77 Boat Paddle Ultralight shooting 165 grain Accubonds. I know that I can expect penetration if that big wide SOB is "stotting" over the next dune. YMMV

Of course I already have. That's why I shoot as much as I do, to get better prepared, and reduce the chances of that happening.

Well said Tteach. I really thought the "worst case scenario" concept was very basic.

People that haven't missed, or misplaced a shot, or choked on a shot either haven't hunted much, have shot all their game from a dead solid hunting blind type setup, or aren't telling the truth. Out of the 300 or so big game animals I've killed, I've [censored]-shot, gut shot, missed, and even crippled a few that required follow up shots. I certainly didn't intend to, but stuff happens.

Yeah, if I was going to try to shoot one in the hind quarter, I would want a very strong bullet going fast.

But, it's a crap shot, and no one on this forum would admit to trying it. The vitals aren't in the hind quarters, they're in front of the diaphragm, and just below the head.

That's my point.

What kind of ammo do you carry in your CC weapon?

He killed it dead as a hammer with that shot. Sometimes animals are actually moving when taking a shot. Once you've hunted enough you'll understand.

Speer Gold Dot, FMJ, Speer Gold Dot, ect.

I have no ego to stroke. I have purposely shot more than one animal from stern to bow. Never lost a single one, and don't plan on ever losing one with that shot. It is DEADLY. You run a good bullet out of an adequate rifle from tailpipe to engine, and that animal dies, quickly.

Sure, the gut job is nasty, but I can live with that for a few minutes.

There's also the matter of follow up shots on tough and/or dangerous game.

Quigley must not understand that between "stem" and "stern" there lies the vitals.

At 100 yds or less, who would pass up this shot?

I'll put it at the back of the neck / skull.

Exactly!!!

This ain't rocket surgery.

Been a Paramedic since 2002. I know anatomy of humans and animals quite well.

What if he was trotting/moving/etc?

That would be rocket science there Quigley.

I read the whole thing. Man.... cup and core Bullets are plenty adequate to kill any mulie alive. Bonded Bullets are a better choice if you don't have the restraint to lay off marginal angles or are pushing light Bullets real fast. I've shot lots of deer but never drew down on ones a$$. That shot is a red light for me personally. It goes against the lessons I was taught as a boy, and the same lessons I taught my son. As for the big mulie in the pic, I'm with Tack Driver. If I could center up on his neck and snap his spine I would peg him, but I don't purposely shoot deer in the a$$, and I'm not ready to start. Sometimes you just say "that's a beauty" as you watch them leave.

If it was moving or trotting, I'll be patient and wait till it changes course and put it in the vitals. If it keeps going and over the hill, then I'll stalk it and find the right moment to run a bullet in the vitals to put him down humanely and effectively. I don't run a bullet straight up its rear end and hope he'll go down like its the end of the world. There is tomorrow and the day after where he will come back and you will find a perfectly killing shot. There are many big bucks out there and I never shot one in the azz / hams and never will. It's just me.

What percentage of shots do you think would have resulted in a different outcome if you had a different bullet?

You're not very bright are you?

That went over your head, and you are alright with shooting deer in the butt. The largest muscle there is, and 20% of the meat from an animal.

I swear you guys are like an old married couple.

I didn't shoot the deer in the butt, my buddy did. Also, I kill probably 25 deer per year including MLD doe culling, so having enough meat is never an issue. I will say that the last thing I worry about is if I will ruin some meat. I'm trying to kill it stone cold dead immediately. I probably give 90% of them to Hunters for the Hungry.

"Stone cold dead" means you're supporting shots in the hind quarter. Got it.

Guess we should all try to hit that area, even on a broad side shot, according to you.

"You can't fix stupid" -Ron White

Bit of a stretch there Quigley, but keep trying. You're doing good.

By far, the largest deer I’ve ever hunted gave no second chances, in that sort of scenario. He was a mule deer, walking away, and a clean 4 point north of 200”. Didn’t matter, as I was bow hunting and he was beyond that range, but with a rifle in hand, I’d have figured something out. As it were, I followed him to the top of the hill he crested, without spooking him, and the big bastard was just gone. I could see, from that hill, much farther than anywhere he had time to possibly escape to, and in the wide open country of the Gila. But, by God, he was gone. I’m still amazed by that act and haunted by that deer. But, to be relevant, with a rifle in hand, that kind of experience could have been a dream or a nightmare. The deciding factor would have been the bullet, not the decision to shoot.

Great post Sneaky.

Weak.

And "Quigly Down Under" is one of my favorite movies. Well done!

+1

My biggest mule deer buck has a similar story but I was carrying a rifle and he is now on my wall. I jumped him at about 50 yards while walking a draw and he only gave me a running straight away shot. Not an ideal situation but it didn't stop me from pulling the trigger. It was a cup and core bullet (InterLock) that brought him down.

Agreed.

X2.

I have personally been a part of and witnessed SEVERAL deer that were either lost or suffered longer than necessary due to neck shots that were slightly off, thus missing the spinal cord.

I have never seen a deer that was shot from south to north last more than 30 seconds. All were shot with appropriate calibers/bullets.

Heck, as "dead-eye" as some on here claim to be, don't they know that a shot precisely up the rectum will travel through the pelvic void into the abdominal/chest cavity without ruining any meat???

I’ve never sent one up the tailpipe, so to speak, but I did shoot a doe head on in the chest. The bullet exited just above her tail. It was an Accubond, of course.

It's very misleading to call a hard quartering away, shot through the back ham and up through front shoulder an [censored] shot, as some attempt to do.

I killed this buck with a similar shot, except that entry was just behind the rear rib while the bullet traveled up through the front shoulder, found right under the skin. A 160 accubond from my 7Mag. I guess some would try and categorize is as gut shot?

Me either but only because the deer was running slightly uphill providing an opportunity at the mid point of the spine. The bullet entered the mid point of his spine and exited the neck. If he had been running away from me on flat ground I am pretty sure the bullet would have still left the barrel with the crosshairs trained on his tailpipe!

You do what you have to. The proper bullet broadens your options.

Agreed

As for hunters, as a last resort, who agree to shoot mulies in the a$$ must be shooting in open fields ( look at the picture from Jgraider's post on page 7 ) where you can see the buck run a ways and find them down a ways. Try to hunt whitetails in South Texas heavy brush, where I hunt, and I bet you that you will barely find them if you shoot them in the a$$, so its reason why I shoot right into the vitals so its DRT so I won't have to waste time chopping through catclaws and brush to find my deer and drag them out. I have seen hunters lose deer in heavy brush. Even one of my hunters shot a 150 lb.hog two weeks ago right in the ham towards the vitals at 100 yards with a 30 06 and 180 Partitions and never found it, we saw blood trailing a long ways into the brush, but was too thick to get in more than 50 yards. I have patience, that some don't have, to wait till the right moment comes to pull that shot. Cheers.

It is my preference to use a bullet that will work for any shot I might ever choose to take. Variations in impact velocity come into play. Then there are circumstances such as proximity to property lines, it might be the last hour of the last day of the season, etc. etc. Opinions vary, but mine is that Partitions, Accubonds, TTSXs, A-Frames, and the like are the most universally reliable performance choices for large animals. If you need to put them through bone at 3100 fps, they stand a good chance of doing what you want them to do. If you need to put them between the ribs at an impact velocity of 2300 fps, in all likelihood they'll work there too. Just my

+1.

That's my take as well. Perhaps I didn't approach it the right way.

Well I shot 2 deer this year, they are both reference in this post... so 100% for the year lol.

I used the bullets with good results the past 3 years, that is why I kept using them this year. I'd have to concentrate and think hard about it to figure how many over the past few years, but it would also be a biased number because the majority of the guns I hunt with are loaded with partitions which I have never had a complaint about on game performance with. My only complaint with them is cost and I have gotten over that for what they provide.

IMO neck shots are not the deadly be-all/end-all shots most think they are either. Risky with whatever bullet you use (for different reasons depending on the bullet).

But that’s another discussion.

Certainly neck and head shots can go poorly. I have never experienced it personally but have seen the results of a few head shots gone bad. I will take a shot if I feel I can make it. My internal processor has taught me to be more than less conservative over the years.

That said ive heard of as many deer that get their lower leg get shot off or gut shots that were not recovered from shoulder shooting as I do from neck/head shots gone wrong.

We are hunters it is up to us individually to know our limits and stay within them. Some will stay within their limits without question some will flirt with the line, and some will go past them with little regard for anything but having a good time and bragging rights.

Perfectly stated.

I agree. That’s why every shot I can remember for a long time now has been in heart/lung area. Whatever the angle. Not to say I wouldn’t take a different shot if: 1) I had no other option and 2) I felt I could for sure make it. (My first elk was a free-handed base of the neck shot at 75 yards, for example.) Everyone has to know their capabilities and stay within them.

You also dont have to take a shot if your not sure about it... bullet construction is only going to make up a very small window of help for a poor placed shot... a larger caliber would do more than a better bullet

East Tx heart shot would put him down

Negative, IMO/IME.

You can take that shot or you could simply get his attention. Deer turns to look and you send one through both lungs.

You can take that shot or you could simply get his attention. Deer turns to look and you send one through both lungs. [/quote]


Big bucks like that, contrary to popular opinion, seldom stop and look back. They get the heck outa Dodge quickly. Also, you seldom see those mega-bucks twice.

Big bucks like that, contrary to popular opinion, seldom stop and look back. They get the heck outa Dodge quickly. Also, you seldom see those mega-bucks twice. [/quote]

That photo is a strong motivator to practice offhand. Amazing deer, thanks for sharing JGR.