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Re: Bucks getting cheaper?
[Re: PMK]
#6399232
08/08/16 08:45 PM
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 197
ETXRaider
Woodsman
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just thinking out-loud via keyboard with some other discussions in the past few weeks... IF there is a downward trend in the trophy HF WT biz, could that be also driving up the price of the trophy LF WT biz along with the upward trend in lease prices? example, instead of paying big $$$ for a 200+ (or whatever number) HF WT, applying similar $$$ towards a LF trophy caliber lease or semi-guided/guided LF trophy hunt just something that popped into my head while reading thru the above and thinking back to several other recent threads ... Hit the nail on the head. CWD-Clayton Wolf Disease. Do just a little digging and it's amazing what you'll find.
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Re: Bucks getting cheaper?
[Re: Pitchfork Predator]
#6399319
08/08/16 09:42 PM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 31,056
HWY_MAN
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Supply and demand will alway be the deciding factor. I have noticed Don that prices for individual bucks have declined. The easiest explanation is just an over supply of buck's, there's more and more Hi_fences popping up daily and the low-fence guys have figured out that growing big bucks isn't that hard if you have enough acreage. People now buy land with the intention of trying to pay for it with hunting where in the past it was cattle, either way payments come due and you do what you have to do.
Yes! A Weatherby does kill them deader.
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Re: Bucks getting cheaper?
[Re: don k]
#6399383
08/08/16 10:19 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 14,956
don k
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TPWS got their palms greased and started Captive WT Breeding. Now they are getting their bread buttered on both sides by opposing groups. They could stop it just like they started it. OH Wait, maybe they waiting to see who can add some Honey to the buttered bread. Actually I believe the market is drying up on the amount of people that are willing to pay big bucks on a deer. Especially now when someone else is not footing the bill.
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Re: Bucks getting cheaper?
[Re: don k]
#6399407
08/08/16 10:35 PM
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 34,046
Buzzsaw
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less $$ to spend on hunting too many young people and their parents not into it cost of high protein food, etc. is causing some big outfits to shut down
For me its gone WAY TO COMMERCIAL. I watch all the TV shows, the goofey people on them. I'm getting older and not quite as mad at the deer anymore. I do love going still to be with friends and the anticipation a bigun might come out
SPACE FOR RENT
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Re: Bucks getting cheaper?
[Re: txtrophy85]
#6399600
08/09/16 01:04 AM
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 11,939
Simple Searcher
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There are still high fences getting built as we speak and the testing, while a pain, is still a minor inconvenience for hunting operations. Testing only applies for scientific release sites anyway. If you high fence your native herd your not subject to testing. What hurts the most is the restrictions placed on TTT captures.
What has softened the market the most is people are not wanting pen raised deer with 300" of non typical antlers on its head. The market got saturated and there was enough backlash over those types of deer they are not selling like they used too, the trend has reverted back to clean, typical type deer.
Yup, For the same money I'll take 150 8 pointer over a palmated, 25 point 250 any day.
"Man is still a hunter, still a simple searcher after meat..." Robert C. Ruark
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Re: Bucks getting cheaper?
[Re: don k]
#6399641
08/09/16 01:31 AM
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,091
Wacm
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Our ranch is 1000 acres. Our bucks will usually gross 160 or better when they get to 7yo. The thing is they very rarely make it. If someone shot a 180 in our area and most importantly it was low fence I would be very impressed. One cause the buck made it 3 solid years of being hunted. And two cause he must of been a smart deer to elude all the other hunters. Man with our soil it would be easy to kill high scoring bucks if we were highfenced. We could kill one every season. We generally kill a decent one every 4 or 5 years.
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Re: Bucks getting cheaper?
[Re: don k]
#6399649
08/09/16 01:34 AM
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,091
Wacm
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Sorry to the point of the post. I don't understand a price drop. I used to be able to go kill and axis doe every summer for 200 bucks but not you can't touch one for under 400. Just keeps going up.
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Re: Bucks getting cheaper?
[Re: don k]
#6399879
08/09/16 04:13 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,005
HornSlayer
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The fact of the matter is there are now just more folks with deer breeding operations. Use to be only a handful around, now there are hundreds. The drop in oil/gas revenue decline and it has a direct effect on the number of people who can afford to hunt one of these monsters. My FIL once said; never invest in anything that gives birth, needs food, water and sunlight. Of course he raised hay and had 350 head of cows when he said it.
They make ammo specifically for hunting for a reason!
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Re: Bucks getting cheaper?
[Re: HornSlayer]
#6400012
08/09/16 12:30 PM
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 686
MoBettaHuntR
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The fact of the matter is there are now just more folks with deer breeding operations. Use to be only a handful around, now there are hundreds. The drop in oil/gas revenue decline and it has a direct effect on the number of people who can afford to hunt one of these monsters. My FIL once said; never invest in anything that gives birth, needs food, water and sunlight. Of course he raised hay and had 350 head of cows when he said it. Classic
-Those who say money can't buy happiness never bought a dog.
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Re: Bucks getting cheaper?
[Re: don k]
#6400014
08/09/16 12:31 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,111
Red Cloud
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Hunting prices needed to be adjusted however the economy has suffered and that IMO is the cause.
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Re: Bucks getting cheaper?
[Re: Wacm]
#6400120
08/09/16 01:27 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,575
redchevy
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Sorry to the point of the post. I don't understand a price drop. I used to be able to go kill and axis doe every summer for 200 bucks but not you can't touch one for under 400. Just keeps going up. I think the answer to that lies in the species. Axis are going to be sought after for many reason you can hunt year round, something different, pretty hide, and supposedly better eating, personally I prefer whitetail to axis, but in that regard I'm pretty sure I'm a minority.
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: Bucks getting cheaper?
[Re: redchevy]
#6400186
08/09/16 01:53 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 32,015
txtrophy85
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Sorry to the point of the post. I don't understand a price drop. I used to be able to go kill and axis doe every summer for 200 bucks but not you can't touch one for under 400. Just keeps going up. I think the answer to that lies in the species. Axis are going to be sought after for many reason you can hunt year round, something different, pretty hide, and supposedly better eating, personally I prefer whitetail to axis, but in that regard I'm pretty sure I'm a minority. That's cause you've never killed one. If you did I'm sure it would change your mind I remember about 15 years ago guys couldn't give a fallow deer away. We would pass on them left and right while hunting axis and blackbuck. Now all of a sudden they are the hot kid on the block. I could kill a bull elk or a caribou for what I've seen some fallow go for
For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
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Re: Bucks getting cheaper?
[Re: don k]
#6400200
08/09/16 01:59 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,575
redchevy
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No I haven't personally killed one but I have eaten it enough times. To me it tastes very similar to aoudad, I'll eat it but its far from my favorite.
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: Bucks getting cheaper?
[Re: Red Cloud]
#6400202
08/09/16 01:59 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 32,015
txtrophy85
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Hunting prices needed to be adjusted however the economy has suffered and that IMO is the cause. You don't think an over saturation of deer causes the market to drop?
For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
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Re: Bucks getting cheaper?
[Re: don k]
#6400291
08/09/16 02:47 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,075
Wilhunt
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It is not much of a challenge to shoot pen raised bucks usually. Agree with Simple Searcher, it is a lot more fun to take a beautiful 8 pointer than the 25 "unnatural" pointer.
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Re: Bucks getting cheaper?
[Re: SapperTitan]
#6400860
08/09/16 09:25 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,611
MarkE
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I think people are getting smarter. They would rather pay to kill a low fence 150-180 than some genetic monster due to criticism from other hunters and friends. Nobody really give a hoot if you go pay 15K to kill a genetic monster bc they discredit it due to the circumstances. Amen! Paying to shoot stuff in a pen is nuts anyway.
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Re: Bucks getting cheaper?
[Re: don k]
#6401218
08/10/16 01:25 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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IMO it's a combination of all the above factors. I think the oversaturation of breeders combined with the stigma/issues associated with HF deer increasing over time delivered serious body blows, and the publicity/pressure/new restrictions over disease transmission will likely be the knockout blow.
There certainly are places where monster deer can be taken consistently and rather easily LF, but the number of them pales in comparison to the thousands of HF places where it can be done.
Whatever your personal stance on them, I just think many people in general are growing tired of the HF stuff....
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Bucks getting cheaper?
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#6401286
08/10/16 01:53 AM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 32,015
txtrophy85
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IMO it's a combination of all the above factors. I think the oversaturation of breeders combined with the stigma/issues associated with HF deer increasing over time delivered serious body blows, and the publicity/pressure/new restrictions over disease transmission will likely be the knockout blow.
There certainly are places where monster deer can be taken consistently and rather easily LF, but the number of them pales in comparison to the thousands of HF places where it can be done.
Whatever your personal stance on them, I just think many people in general are growing tired of the HF stuff.... We have seen a general shift away from high fence properties in general although hf places are still selling very well. That will never change although with today's management you can kill bucks that on lf places that wouldn't have been possible 15 years ago
For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
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Re: Bucks getting cheaper?
[Re: txtrophy85]
#6401322
08/10/16 02:11 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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IMO it's a combination of all the above factors. I think the oversaturation of breeders combined with the stigma/issues associated with HF deer increasing over time delivered serious body blows, and the publicity/pressure/new restrictions over disease transmission will likely be the knockout blow.
There certainly are places where monster deer can be taken consistently and rather easily LF, but the number of them pales in comparison to the thousands of HF places where it can be done.
Whatever your personal stance on them, I just think many people in general are growing tired of the HF stuff.... We have seen a general shift away from high fence properties in general although hf places are still selling very well. That will never change although with today's management you can kill bucks that on lf places that wouldn't have been possible 15 years ago We will see. I think it will change - and is already doing so. A "shift away" from them will be reflected in the market.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Bucks getting cheaper?
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#6401364
08/10/16 02:43 AM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,179
therancher
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I will bet anyone HF places won't suffer any more or less than low fence places. Let me know when you figure out how much $ you're comfortable losing.
Crotchety old bastidge
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Re: Bucks getting cheaper?
[Re: therancher]
#6401379
08/10/16 02:57 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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I will bet anyone HF places won't suffer any more or less than low fence places. Let me know when you figure out how much $ you're comfortable losing.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Bucks getting cheaper?
[Re: don k]
#6401427
08/10/16 03:20 AM
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 21,271
SniperRAB
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Has Glenn Sodd seen a downturn on his HF Breeding Operation over at the Refuge NP.... http://www.refugewhitetails.com/Seen alot of downturn in the Industry as a whole... Most Quality Guys down South are still Pumping Along in Quality Markets
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Re: Bucks getting cheaper?
[Re: therancher]
#6401438
08/10/16 03:24 AM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 32,015
txtrophy85
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I will bet anyone HF places won't suffer any more or less than low fence places. Let me know when you figure out how much $ you're comfortable losing. I wouldn't hesitate one bit to high fence a appropriate size pasture then turn around and sell it for a premium. So much of the state already is high fenced, we will never see a reversal
For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
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Re: Bucks getting cheaper?
[Re: txtrophy85]
#6401439
08/10/16 03:26 AM
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 21,271
SniperRAB
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I will bet anyone HF places won't suffer any more or less than low fence places. Let me know when you figure out how much $ you're comfortable losing. I wouldn't hesitate one bit to high fence a appropriate size pasture then turn around and sell it for a premium. So much of the state already is high fenced, we will never see a reversal Yes Sir... No one wants a Drake
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Re: Bucks getting cheaper?
[Re: SniperRAB]
#6401462
08/10/16 03:39 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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Has Glenn Sodd seen a downturn on his HF Breeding Operation over at the Refuge NP.... http://www.refugewhitetails.com/Seen alot of downturn in the Industry as a whole... Most Quality Guys down South are still Pumping Along in Quality Markets I don't know. He's been around and successful for a long time. I've just seen what you are referring to also.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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