Texas Hunting Forum

Bucks getting cheaper?

Posted By: don k

Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/04/16 10:35 PM

Is it only me or does it seem like the price of individual Bucks are getting less expensive? Is it the concern with CWD, the price, to many pen raised Bucks hitting the market, not enough people willing to pay the price or maybe people just want an ordinary looking WT Buck Deer?
Posted By: 5Redman8

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/04/16 10:38 PM

Hope it plummets....better sell before TPWD shuts em down
Posted By: Big_Ag

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/04/16 10:56 PM

Don't forget the impact the price of oil has had. I have no research to back my opinion up, but it seems like I hear the same thing is happening with lease prices.
Posted By: SapperTitan

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/05/16 01:57 AM

I think people are getting smarter. They would rather pay to kill a low fence 150-180 than some genetic monster due to criticism from other hunters and friends. Nobody really give a hoot if you go pay 15K to kill a genetic monster bc they discredit it due to the circumstances.
Posted By: txtrophy85

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/05/16 01:58 AM

Originally Posted By: SapperTitan
I the no people are getting smarter. They would rather pay to kill a low fence 150-180 than some genetic monster due to criticism from other hunters and friends. Nobody really give a hoot if you go pay 15K to kill a genetic monster bc they discredit it due to the circumstances.


Imo a ranch born 180" deer is a ranch born 180" deer

Couldnt care less if it's killed on a 600 acre hf place or a 600 acre low fence ranch

What's the difference is both of them are shot under feeders anyway?
Posted By: SapperTitan

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/05/16 02:53 AM

Originally Posted By: txtrophy85
Originally Posted By: SapperTitan
I the no people are getting smarter. They would rather pay to kill a low fence 150-180 than some genetic monster due to criticism from other hunters and friends. Nobody really give a hoot if you go pay 15K to kill a genetic monster bc they discredit it due to the circumstances.


Imo a ranch born 180" deer is a ranch born 180" deer

Couldnt care less if it's killed on a 600 acre hf place or a 600 acre low fence ranch

What's the difference is both of them are shot under feeders anyway?
my point is the first question people ask now when someone kills a giant is (was it HF?) I think people are just getting to the point they don't want the stigma attached to it. Personally I don't care what people do I'm for the hunter being happy HF, LF, feeders, plots idk.
Posted By: TFF Caribou

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/05/16 04:23 AM

Originally Posted By: txtrophy85
Originally Posted By: SapperTitan
I the no people are getting smarter. They would rather pay to kill a low fence 150-180 than some genetic monster due to criticism from other hunters and friends. Nobody really give a hoot if you go pay 15K to kill a genetic monster bc they discredit it due to the circumstances.


Imo a ranch born 180" deer is a ranch born 180" deer

Couldnt care less if it's killed on a 600 acre hf place or a 600 acre low fence ranch

What's the difference is both of them are shot under feeders anyway?


I agree if both are grown naturally. But generally a high fence hunting operation is going to be feeding a very specific expensive diet to their deer to grow them as big as possible. Where as the guy on the other place is likely just putting out some corn as an attractant.
Posted By: Pitchfork Predator

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/05/16 11:43 AM

Supply and demand will alway be the deciding factor. I have noticed Don that prices for individual bucks have declined.
Posted By: MoBettaHuntR

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/05/16 02:15 PM

Originally Posted By: Big_Ag
Don't forget the impact the price of oil has had. I have no research to back my opinion up, but it seems like I hear the same thing is happening with lease prices.


supply and demmand...Lots of folks where rolling around with spare change there for a while not so much right now. The whole deer market is obscure anyhow. It's a chicken and egg type of deal kinda like the oil business.
Posted By: redchevy

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/05/16 02:18 PM

I could see it being everything mentioned above.
Posted By: txtrophy85

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/05/16 02:20 PM

Originally Posted By: Tff caribou
Originally Posted By: txtrophy85
Originally Posted By: SapperTitan
I the no people are getting smarter. They would rather pay to kill a low fence 150-180 than some genetic monster due to criticism from other hunters and friends. Nobody really give a hoot if you go pay 15K to kill a genetic monster bc they discredit it due to the circumstances.


Imo a ranch born 180" deer is a ranch born 180" deer

Couldnt care less if it's killed on a 600 acre hf place or a 600 acre low fence ranch

What's the difference is both of them are shot under feeders anyway?



I agree if both are grown naturally. But generally a high fence hunting operation is going to be feeding a very specific expensive diet to their deer to grow them as big as possible. Where as the guy on the other place is likely just putting out some corn as an attractant.



Those low fence ranches thst consistently produce Boone and Crockett class deer feed plenty of protein, trust me
Posted By: redchevy

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/05/16 02:25 PM

I have nothing against HF ranches, their owners, or hunting on them, but a big buck off a LF place is not the same as one off a HF place TO ME and I believe others as well. Its taken us 9 years to get into the 150 B&C range on our 320 acre LF place. If it was HF there is no doubt in my mind we would have been there in 1/2 that time or less.
Posted By: txtrophy85

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/05/16 07:14 PM

Originally Posted By: redchevy
I have nothing against HF ranches, their owners, or hunting on them, but a big buck off a LF place is not the same as one off a HF place TO ME and I believe others as well. Its taken us 9 years to get into the 150 B&C range on our 320 acre LF place. If it was HF there is no doubt in my mind we would have been there in 1/2 that time or less.


Maybe, maybe not. A lot has to depend on the genetics.

A high fence doesent automatically guarantee big deer.


The biggest thing a high fence controls is your neighbors shooting deer and somewhat controls your predator influx.

I know guys with decent sized hf places that are not managed well and they can't break 150" easily. I know places that have poor native genetics that have issues with it as well.

I know guys that hunt no pressure low fence places with non-hunting neighbors that break 150" every year. I sold 475 acres down in big wells that bordered a 6k acre place that was lightly hunted, guy shot a 165" on it last year and passed numerous 140's and 150's and the two years prior he owned it. Low fence country

There is a lot of country that is not hunted, it's not unheard of to have big, low fence neighbors that don't hunt
Posted By: txbobcat

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/05/16 09:59 PM

Prices definitely coming WAY down on those that haven't been doing the testing. Does well under $1000 now and bucks definitely down.

I think we will really start to see a premium on quality low fence deer and some severe pressure on the genetically manipulated.
Posted By: sbushee

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/05/16 10:07 PM

Price is dictated by whatever the market will bear. Everyone in this thread makes good points.
Posted By: don k

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/05/16 11:14 PM






I really don't know how many years people have been offering pen raised Deer. Everything has its cycle. Do you think the market may have dried up for this type of Deer? If that is the case it would seem logical that it would affect the entire market. I also think that the down turn in oil production has probably helped. I know many years ago when I was in the hunting business when oil went south so did our business especially out of off shore La. which at that time was really hot.
Posted By: txtrophy85

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/06/16 02:32 AM

There are still high fences getting built as we speak and the testing, while a pain, is still a minor inconvenience for hunting operations. Testing only applies for scientific release sites anyway. If you high fence your native herd your not subject to testing. What hurts the most is the restrictions placed on TTT captures.


What has softened the market the most is people are not wanting pen raised deer with 300" of non typical antlers on its head. The market got saturated and there was enough backlash over those types of deer they are not selling like they used too, the trend has reverted back to clean, typical type deer.
Posted By: majekman

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/06/16 02:37 AM

Yes Don the price of deer is down...big time. I know a couple guys in the biz and they're selling deer for half the money they were as little as 2-3yrs ago. Several intangibles involved but overall it's the oil bust that can be blamed. Money dries up and toys go by the wayside very quickly
Posted By: fouzman

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/08/16 07:02 PM

Originally Posted By: txtrophy85
There are still high fences getting built as we speak and the testing, while a pain, is still a minor inconvenience for hunting operations. Testing only applies for scientific release sites anyway. If you high fence your native herd your not subject to testing. What hurts the most is the restrictions placed on TTT captures.


What has softened the market the most is people are not wanting pen raised deer with 300" of non typical antlers on its head. The market got saturated and there was enough backlash over those types of deer they are not selling like they used too, the trend has reverted back to clean, typical type deer.



I agree with most of what you said, except the over-saturation of freak deer causing the decline in prices.

Anyone who purchases deer from a non-TC1 qualified breeder will immediately assume that breeder's status and fall under the same testing/surveillance requirements as that breeder. Whether that be a five acre release site or a five thousand acre release site. When you say a "scientific" release site, I'm not sure what you are referring to.

The other thing hurting values is deer that are liberated to a release site must remain within the confines of that release site. No more TTT from those sites, period. So let's say a guy has a 1,000 acre ranch and wants to stock it with 100 deer from a TC3 breeder. He's now a TC3 release site and must submit 50% of all hunter harvested deer plus all deer "found dead" for a period of time to attain TC2 status and, eventually, TC1.

So prices from TC3 breeders who are movement qualified will be lowest, TC2 next and TC1 highest.

The downturn in the US oil business is also playing a HUGE part in the price declines. Go look at all the nice, new vacant motels in Cotulla and all throughout the Eagle Ford. 200,000 jobs lost and $84 billion in capex slashed from budgets has an enormous impact on entertainment expenses.

I also agree that we've come to the point many folks would rather kill a pasture born deer over a pen-raised freak with holes or tatoos in his ears. Low-fence being the most sought after, but lots of big, beautiful native born deer behind fences in this state and I don't see those prices coming down.

Gene Riser was going to start attempting to breed strictly big typicals before he passed away.

Posted By: PMK

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/08/16 07:12 PM

just thinking out-loud via keyboard with some other discussions in the past few weeks...

IF there is a downward trend in the trophy HF WT biz, could that be also driving up the price of the trophy LF WT biz along with the upward trend in lease prices?

example, instead of paying big $$$ for a 200+ (or whatever number) HF WT, applying similar $$$ towards a LF trophy caliber lease or semi-guided/guided LF trophy hunt

just something that popped into my head while reading thru the above and thinking back to several other recent threads ... confused2 popcorn
Posted By: SingleShot85

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/08/16 07:21 PM

Originally Posted By: redchevy
I have nothing against HF ranches, their owners, or hunting on them, but a big buck off a LF place is not the same as one off a HF place TO ME and I believe others as well. Its taken us 9 years to get into the 150 B&C range on our 320 acre LF place. If it was HF there is no doubt in my mind we would have been there in 1/2 that time or less.


you couldn't be more wrong, 9 years is the bare minimum to see any significant changes made in heard health and range conditions......... there is simply not enough time for improved development to dominate across the board short of 10 years......

if all it took was protein feeding everyone would have 150" monsters running around, I've been dumping 18 tons a year over 7K acrea and have yet to kill a 150"er, Half our place is HF the other half LF. In the past 5 years we moved the average score of ALL bucks harvested from 115"to 121" and from 135 dressed to 160 dressed[b][/b][i][/i]
Posted By: Mike Honcho

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/08/16 07:36 PM

Originally Posted By: SingleShot85
Originally Posted By: redchevy
I have nothing against HF ranches, their owners, or hunting on them, but a big buck off a LF place is not the same as one off a HF place TO ME and I believe others as well. Its taken us 9 years to get into the 150 B&C range on our 320 acre LF place. If it was HF there is no doubt in my mind we would have been there in 1/2 that time or less.


you couldn't be more wrong, 9 years is the bare minimum to see any significant changes made in heard health and range conditions......... there is simply not enough time for improved development to dominate across the board short of 10 years......

if all it took was protein feeding everyone would have 150" monsters running around, I've been dumping 18 tons a year over 7K acrea and have yet to kill a 150"er, Half our place is HF the other half LF. In the past 5 years we moved the average score of ALL bucks harvested from 115"to 121" and from 135 dressed to 160 dressed[b][/b][i][/i]


That holds water, selective hunting and genetics are your biggest factors. If the deer doesnt have the genes to reach 150bc then it wont no matter how much protein ya feed. Its like humans, if your meant to be 5'10 your gonna be 5'10 no matter how much ya wanna be 6'6.

I disagree that a HF place cant churn trophy caliber deer quickly. If running the right ratio, feed program, and more importantly access to water and causing no stress during antler and body development CAN produce trophy results in an easy 5-6 years assuming the genes are there or introduction of genes takes place. We did it on our place.
Posted By: redchevy

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/08/16 07:48 PM

Originally Posted By: SingleShot85
Originally Posted By: redchevy
I have nothing against HF ranches, their owners, or hunting on them, but a big buck off a LF place is not the same as one off a HF place TO ME and I believe others as well. Its taken us 9 years to get into the 150 B&C range on our 320 acre LF place. If it was HF there is no doubt in my mind we would have been there in 1/2 that time or less.


you couldn't be more wrong, 9 years is the bare minimum to see any significant changes made in heard health and range conditions......... there is simply not enough time for improved development to dominate across the board short of 10 years......

if all it took was protein feeding everyone would have 150" monsters running around, I've been dumping 18 tons a year over 7K acrea and have yet to kill a 150"er, Half our place is HF the other half LF. In the past 5 years we moved the average score of ALL bucks harvested from 115"to 121" and from 135 dressed to 160 dressed[b][/b][i][/i]


I don't see how your post makes me wrong at all. I never said you could dump protein and 150 inch deer would sprout forth from the ground. I said in my opinion it was easier to grow them on a HF place than a LF place. A lot of that has to do with neighbors hunting pressure and size of your property. Our place is small enough that what our neighbors do greatly affects us. Also we started out with a shot out property and that is what we built from, we didn't shoot a deer till the third year. Many many a young deer that I would dearly love to see again that either got shot somewhere else or didn't come back.
Posted By: SingleShot85

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/08/16 07:58 PM

your biggest factor for improvement and decline is time.......... you stated, you believed you could do it 1/2 the time w/ a HF, i'm telling you its not possible....... it has very little to do w a fence..
Posted By: therancher

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/08/16 07:59 PM

Originally Posted By: PMK
just thinking out-loud via keyboard with some other discussions in the past few weeks...

IF there is a downward trend in the trophy HF WT biz, could that be also driving up the price of the trophy LF WT biz along with the upward trend in lease prices?

example, instead of paying big $$$ for a 200+ (or whatever number) HF WT, applying similar $$$ towards a LF trophy caliber lease or semi-guided/guided LF trophy hunt

just something that popped into my head while reading thru the above and thinking back to several other recent threads ... confused2 popcorn


Bingo.

The attack on the breeding industry was perpetrated by the members of the parks and wildlife board. They are large low fence ranch owners. And they stand to make a tidy profit from the destruction of the breeding industry.

Everybody has seen the drop in prices of the huge non typicals. And that has more to do with personal preference and cost than the oil business drop IMO. But the prices of the 170-200" deer has remained pretty steady.

My deer prices haven't dropped. And neither have my lease prices. But I've never been in the super large buck game.
Posted By: ETXRaider

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/08/16 08:45 PM

Originally Posted By: PMK
just thinking out-loud via keyboard with some other discussions in the past few weeks...

IF there is a downward trend in the trophy HF WT biz, could that be also driving up the price of the trophy LF WT biz along with the upward trend in lease prices?

example, instead of paying big $$$ for a 200+ (or whatever number) HF WT, applying similar $$$ towards a LF trophy caliber lease or semi-guided/guided LF trophy hunt

just something that popped into my head while reading thru the above and thinking back to several other recent threads ... confused2 popcorn


Hit the nail on the head. CWD-Clayton Wolf Disease. Do just a little digging and it's amazing what you'll find.
Posted By: HWY_MAN

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/08/16 09:42 PM

Originally Posted By: Pitchfork Predator
Supply and demand will alway be the deciding factor. I have noticed Don that prices for individual bucks have declined.


The easiest explanation is just an over supply of buck's, there's more and more Hi_fences popping up daily and the low-fence guys have figured out that growing big bucks isn't that hard if you have enough acreage. People now buy land with the intention of trying to pay for it with hunting where in the past it was cattle, either way payments come due and you do what you have to do.
Posted By: don k

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/08/16 10:19 PM

TPWS got their palms greased and started Captive WT Breeding. Now they are getting their bread buttered on both sides by opposing groups. They could stop it just like they started it. OH Wait, maybe they waiting to see who can add some Honey to the buttered bread. Actually I believe the market is drying up on the amount of people that are willing to pay big bucks on a deer. Especially now when someone else is not footing the bill.
Posted By: Buzzsaw

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/08/16 10:35 PM

less $$ to spend on hunting
too many young people and their parents not into it
cost of high protein food, etc. is causing some big outfits to shut down


For me its gone WAY TO COMMERCIAL. I watch all the TV shows, the goofey people on them. I'm getting older and not quite as mad at the deer anymore. I do love going still to be with friends and the anticipation a bigun might come out
Posted By: Simple Searcher

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/09/16 01:04 AM

Originally Posted By: txtrophy85
There are still high fences getting built as we speak and the testing, while a pain, is still a minor inconvenience for hunting operations. Testing only applies for scientific release sites anyway. If you high fence your native herd your not subject to testing. What hurts the most is the restrictions placed on TTT captures.


What has softened the market the most is people are not wanting pen raised deer with 300" of non typical antlers on its head. The market got saturated and there was enough backlash over those types of deer they are not selling like they used too, the trend has reverted back to clean, typical type deer.



Yup,
For the same money I'll take 150 8 pointer over a palmated, 25 point 250 any day.
Posted By: Wacm

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/09/16 01:31 AM

Our ranch is 1000 acres. Our bucks will usually gross 160 or better when they get to 7yo. The thing is they very rarely make it. If someone shot a 180 in our area and most importantly it was low fence I would be very impressed. One cause the buck made it 3 solid years of being hunted. And two cause he must of been a smart deer to elude all the other hunters. Man with our soil it would be easy to kill high scoring bucks if we were highfenced. We could kill one every season. We generally kill a decent one every 4 or 5 years.
Posted By: Wacm

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/09/16 01:34 AM

Sorry to the point of the post. I don't understand a price drop. I used to be able to go kill and axis doe every summer for 200 bucks but not you can't touch one for under 400. Just keeps going up.
Posted By: HornSlayer

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/09/16 04:13 AM

The fact of the matter is there are now just more folks with deer breeding operations. Use to be only a handful around, now there are hundreds. The drop in oil/gas revenue decline and it has a direct effect on the number of people who can afford to hunt one of these monsters. My FIL once said; never invest in anything that gives birth, needs food, water and sunlight. Of course he raised hay and had 350 head of cows when he said it.
Posted By: MoBettaHuntR

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/09/16 12:30 PM

Originally Posted By: HornSlayer
The fact of the matter is there are now just more folks with deer breeding operations. Use to be only a handful around, now there are hundreds. The drop in oil/gas revenue decline and it has a direct effect on the number of people who can afford to hunt one of these monsters. My FIL once said; never invest in anything that gives birth, needs food, water and sunlight. Of course he raised hay and had 350 head of cows when he said it.



roflmao Classic
Posted By: Red Cloud

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/09/16 12:31 PM

Hunting prices needed to be adjusted however the economy has suffered and that IMO is the cause.
Posted By: redchevy

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/09/16 01:27 PM

Originally Posted By: Wacm
Sorry to the point of the post. I don't understand a price drop. I used to be able to go kill and axis doe every summer for 200 bucks but not you can't touch one for under 400. Just keeps going up.


I think the answer to that lies in the species. Axis are going to be sought after for many reason you can hunt year round, something different, pretty hide, and supposedly better eating, personally I prefer whitetail to axis, but in that regard I'm pretty sure I'm a minority.
Posted By: txtrophy85

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/09/16 01:53 PM

Originally Posted By: redchevy
Originally Posted By: Wacm
Sorry to the point of the post. I don't understand a price drop. I used to be able to go kill and axis doe every summer for 200 bucks but not you can't touch one for under 400. Just keeps going up.


I think the answer to that lies in the species. Axis are going to be sought after for many reason you can hunt year round, something different, pretty hide, and supposedly better eating, personally I prefer whitetail to axis, but in that regard I'm pretty sure I'm a minority.


That's cause you've never killed one.


If you did I'm sure it would change your mind




I remember about 15 years ago guys couldn't give a fallow deer away. We would pass on them left and right while hunting axis and blackbuck. Now all of a sudden they are the hot kid on the block. I could kill a bull elk or a caribou for what I've seen some fallow go for
Posted By: redchevy

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/09/16 01:59 PM

No I haven't personally killed one but I have eaten it enough times. To me it tastes very similar to aoudad, I'll eat it but its far from my favorite.
Posted By: txtrophy85

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/09/16 01:59 PM

Originally Posted By: Red Cloud
Hunting prices needed to be adjusted however the economy has suffered and that IMO is the cause.


You don't think an over saturation of deer causes the market to drop?
Posted By: Wilhunt

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/09/16 02:47 PM

It is not much of a challenge to shoot pen raised bucks usually. Agree with Simple Searcher, it is a lot more fun to take a beautiful 8 pointer than the 25 "unnatural" pointer.
Posted By: MarkE

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/09/16 09:25 PM

Originally Posted By: SapperTitan
I think people are getting smarter. They would rather pay to kill a low fence 150-180 than some genetic monster due to criticism from other hunters and friends. Nobody really give a hoot if you go pay 15K to kill a genetic monster bc they discredit it due to the circumstances.


Amen! Paying to shoot stuff in a pen is nuts anyway.
Posted By: Nogalus Prairie

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/10/16 01:25 AM

IMO it's a combination of all the above factors. I think the oversaturation of breeders combined with the stigma/issues associated with HF deer increasing over time delivered serious body blows, and the publicity/pressure/new restrictions over disease transmission will likely be the knockout blow.

There certainly are places where monster deer can be taken consistently and rather easily LF, but the number of them pales in comparison to the thousands of HF places where it can be done.

Whatever your personal stance on them, I just think many people in general are growing tired of the HF stuff....
Posted By: txtrophy85

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/10/16 01:53 AM

Originally Posted By: Nogalus Prairie
IMO it's a combination of all the above factors. I think the oversaturation of breeders combined with the stigma/issues associated with HF deer increasing over time delivered serious body blows, and the publicity/pressure/new restrictions over disease transmission will likely be the knockout blow.

There certainly are places where monster deer can be taken consistently and rather easily LF, but the number of them pales in comparison to the thousands of HF places where it can be done.

Whatever your personal stance on them, I just think many people in general are growing tired of the HF stuff....


We have seen a general shift away from high fence properties in general although hf places are still selling very well.

That will never change although with today's management you can kill bucks that on lf places that wouldn't have been possible 15 years ago
Posted By: Nogalus Prairie

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/10/16 02:11 AM

Originally Posted By: txtrophy85
Originally Posted By: Nogalus Prairie
IMO it's a combination of all the above factors. I think the oversaturation of breeders combined with the stigma/issues associated with HF deer increasing over time delivered serious body blows, and the publicity/pressure/new restrictions over disease transmission will likely be the knockout blow.

There certainly are places where monster deer can be taken consistently and rather easily LF, but the number of them pales in comparison to the thousands of HF places where it can be done.

Whatever your personal stance on them, I just think many people in general are growing tired of the HF stuff....


We have seen a general shift away from high fence properties in general although hf places are still selling very well.

That will never change although with today's management you can kill bucks that on lf places that wouldn't have been possible 15 years ago


We will see. I think it will change - and is already doing so. A "shift away" from them will be reflected in the market.
Posted By: therancher

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/10/16 02:43 AM

I will bet anyone HF places won't suffer any more or less than low fence places. Let me know when you figure out how much $ you're comfortable losing.
Posted By: Nogalus Prairie

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/10/16 02:57 AM

Originally Posted By: therancher
I will bet anyone HF places won't suffer any more or less than low fence places. Let me know when you figure out how much $ you're comfortable losing.


rolleyes
Posted By: SniperRAB

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/10/16 03:20 AM

Has Glenn Sodd seen a downturn on his HF Breeding Operation over at the Refuge NP....

http://www.refugewhitetails.com/

Seen alot of downturn in the Industry as a whole...
Most Quality Guys down South are still Pumping Along in Quality Markets up
Posted By: txtrophy85

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/10/16 03:24 AM

Originally Posted By: therancher
I will bet anyone HF places won't suffer any more or less than low fence places. Let me know when you figure out how much $ you're comfortable losing.


I wouldn't hesitate one bit to high fence a appropriate size pasture then turn around and sell it for a premium.

So much of the state already is high fenced, we will never see a reversal
Posted By: SniperRAB

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/10/16 03:26 AM

Originally Posted By: txtrophy85
Originally Posted By: therancher
I will bet anyone HF places won't suffer any more or less than low fence places. Let me know when you figure out how much $ you're comfortable losing.


I wouldn't hesitate one bit to high fence a appropriate size pasture then turn around and sell it for a premium.

So much of the state already is high fenced, we will never see a reversal



Yes Sir...

No one wants a Drake
Posted By: Nogalus Prairie

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/10/16 03:39 AM

Originally Posted By: SniperRAB
Has Glenn Sodd seen a downturn on his HF Breeding Operation over at the Refuge NP....

http://www.refugewhitetails.com/

Seen alot of downturn in the Industry as a whole...
Most Quality Guys down South are still Pumping Along in Quality Markets up


I don't know. He's been around and successful for a long time. I've just seen what you are referring to also.
Posted By: SniperRAB

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/10/16 03:43 AM

Well Good Deal...

Seems the markets having the "Ping Pong" effect we have seen for years... J Lindsey said they are buying with a "frenzy"

HF is alive and prospering up
Posted By: Cow_doc.308

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/10/16 04:07 AM

I'm far from an economist or an expert on the deer business, but I feel like 2 things have hurt deer sales this year....oil prices and uncertainty over CWD testing regs.

Lots of hunts are bought by companies tied to oil industry and a fair number of ranches are owned by people in the oil industry.

CWD live testing regs still aren't officially official I don't think. I know I've been testing some though and so have a bunch of others. I talked to the lab today. What used to be a 7-10 day turn around is now 4-5 weeks. Got some folks sweating over if they'll have what they need to move deer in time.
Posted By: therancher

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/10/16 04:54 AM

Originally Posted By: Nogalus Prairie
Originally Posted By: therancher
I will bet anyone HF places won't suffer any more or less than low fence places. Let me know when you figure out how much $ you're comfortable losing.


rolleyes



"We will see. I think it will change - and is already doing so. A "shift away" from them will be reflected in the market."

You're the one that made the bold statement. I just offered a friendly wager.
_________________________
Posted By: therancher

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/10/16 04:57 AM

Originally Posted By: Cow_doc.308
I'm far from an economist or an expert on the deer business, but I feel like 2 things have hurt deer sales this year....oil prices and uncertainty over CWD testing regs.

Lots of hunts are bought by companies tied to oil industry and a fair number of ranches are owned by people in the oil industry.

CWD live testing regs still aren't officially official I don't think. I know I've been testing some though and so have a bunch of others. I talked to the lab today. What used to be a 7-10 day turn around is now 4-5 weeks. Got some folks sweating over if they'll have what they need to move deer in time.


The big players in breeding aren't going to be affected by cost or turnaround. It's the middle and little guy that are dropping out.
Posted By: don k

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/10/16 01:27 PM

I would venture to say that the majority of places that are now HF and those that will be are because of two things. One is that the person that HF's is going to raise Exotics. Two is because of neighbors.
Posted By: therancher

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/10/16 02:11 PM

It's as easy as asking a fencing co what the wait time is. 6 months or more in my areas. Some will tell you they can get to it sooner. But typically they're lying.
Posted By: bp3

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/10/16 02:23 PM

Can shoot a grain fed steer for a lot less money and a lot better eating. peep
Posted By: Navasot

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/10/16 02:30 PM

Originally Posted By: bp3
Can shoot a grain fed steer for a lot less money and a lot better eating. peep


Ill take venison over beef anyday. but yes quantity to $ cattle make a good deal
Posted By: stxranchman

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/10/16 02:57 PM

The price one is willing to pay depends on what that person is looking for in a hunt. That is their choice, always has been and always will be. I don't see prices changing anymore today than they have in the past. Nothing is getting cheaper these days.
Posted By: Nogalus Prairie

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/10/16 05:00 PM

Originally Posted By: stxranchman
The price one is willing to pay depends on what that person is looking for in a hunt. That is their choice, always has been and always will be. I don't see prices changing anymore today than they have in the past. Nothing is getting cheaper these days.


Actually, the prices for the genetically/nutritionally enhanced megabucks are way cheaper than they used to be.
Posted By: Nogalus Prairie

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/10/16 05:27 PM

IMO the trend is not analogous to the oil & gas cycles because the major driver in that cycle has been/is supply (at least to date). Folks still need gas and oil.

The driver for the big bucks has been/is demand. Folks don't need big bucks. I believe attitudes are changing and will continue to change. Therefore, I believe that demand will stabilize at some point and supply will have to necessarily change to adapt. The good businessmen will adapt and survive, the not-so-good ones will not.

In other words, there will always be some demand for artificially bred megabucks and there will always be some demand for HF hunts of different types - but IMO that demand is lessening and will find its floor as time passes. Time will tell where that floor will be.

HF hunting will never go away unless it is made illegal for some reason. I do not see that happening in Texas - certainly not across the board.
Posted By: TXHOGSLAYER

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/11/16 05:33 AM

Originally Posted By: Nogalus Prairie
Originally Posted By: txtrophy85
Originally Posted By: Nogalus Prairie
IMO it's a combination of all the above factors. I think the oversaturation of breeders combined with the stigma/issues associated with HF deer increasing over time delivered serious body blows, and the publicity/pressure/new restrictions over disease transmission will likely be the knockout blow.

There certainly are places where monster deer can be taken consistently and rather easily LF, but the number of them pales in comparison to the thousands of HF places where it can be done.

Whatever your personal stance on them, I just think many people in general are growing tired of the HF stuff....


We have seen a general shift away from high fence properties in general although hf places are still selling very well.

That will never change although with today's management you can kill bucks that on lf places that wouldn't have been possible 15 years ago


We will see. I think it will change - and is already doing so. A "shift away" from them will be reflected in the market.


Says the guy in the glass house.
Posted By: Nogalus Prairie

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/11/16 01:57 PM

Originally Posted By: TXHOGSLAYER
Originally Posted By: Nogalus Prairie
Originally Posted By: txtrophy85
Originally Posted By: Nogalus Prairie
IMO it's a combination of all the above factors. I think the oversaturation of breeders combined with the stigma/issues associated with HF deer increasing over time delivered serious body blows, and the publicity/pressure/new restrictions over disease transmission will likely be the knockout blow.

There certainly are places where monster deer can be taken consistently and rather easily LF, but the number of them pales in comparison to the thousands of HF places where it can be done.

Whatever your personal stance on them, I just think many people in general are growing tired of the HF stuff....


We have seen a general shift away from high fence properties in general although hf places are still selling very well.

That will never change although with today's management you can kill bucks that on lf places that wouldn't have been possible 15 years ago


We will see. I think it will change - and is already doing so. A "shift away" from them will be reflected in the market.


Says the guy in the glass house.


rolleyes

If form holds, your next post will accuse me of trolling. smile
Posted By: txtrophy85

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/11/16 05:16 PM

Originally Posted By: Nogalus Prairie
Originally Posted By: stxranchman
The price one is willing to pay depends on what that person is looking for in a hunt. That is their choice, always has been and always will be. I don't see prices changing anymore today than they have in the past. Nothing is getting cheaper these days.


Actually, the prices for the genetically/nutritionally enhanced megabucks are way cheaper than they used to be.



It's cheaper to shoot a bigger deer now than it used to be because there are more of them. Kinda like when flatscreen tv's came out.

I've seen 170" deer advertised for $7500

Posted By: therancher

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/11/16 05:43 PM

Originally Posted By: txtrophy85
Originally Posted By: Nogalus Prairie
Originally Posted By: stxranchman
The price one is willing to pay depends on what that person is looking for in a hunt. That is their choice, always has been and always will be. I don't see prices changing anymore today than they have in the past. Nothing is getting cheaper these days.


Actually, the prices for the genetically/nutritionally enhanced megabucks are way cheaper than they used to be.



It's cheaper to shoot a bigger deer now than it used to be because there are more of them. Kinda like when flatscreen tv's came out.

I've seen 170" deer advertised for $7500



Is that supposed to be high or low?
Posted By: Matpk

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/11/16 05:55 PM

cheers up
Very well said PMK.
clap
Posted By: batman

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/11/16 11:38 PM

There's a post in the outfitter section for up to 200" for $4500. Says most will be 170". Selling deer ain't what it used to be.
Posted By: stxranchman

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/12/16 10:47 AM

Originally Posted By: therancher
Originally Posted By: txtrophy85
Originally Posted By: Nogalus Prairie
Originally Posted By: stxranchman
The price one is willing to pay depends on what that person is looking for in a hunt. That is their choice, always has been and always will be. I don't see prices changing anymore today than they have in the past. Nothing is getting cheaper these days.


Actually, the prices for the genetically/nutritionally enhanced megabucks are way cheaper than they used to be.



It's cheaper to shoot a bigger deer now than it used to be because there are more of them. Kinda like when flatscreen tv's came out.

I've seen 170" deer advertised for $7500



Is that supposed to be high or low?

It would be neither if the landowner is getting that for a hunt and the hunter is paying it. That would make the correct asking price in their situation. Every hunting situation is different. Those who are over priced and want to sell hunts will either drop their prices or not sell as many hunts. Those that have been in-line or below others with their prices will always stay booked on hunts. We all know there is more to a price of a hunt than just the animal. The way hunts are priced have always been like that, some in-line and some over priced. The hunts are priced one way or the other for a reason. Some manage for numbers of mature animals and limit/adjust their hunts each year while others just sell the same "x" number of hunts every year. One place may place more value on the deer without food/lodging while the next might place more value on the hunt, accommodations/ food/lodging, and the deer as a package.
Posted By: don k

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/12/16 12:14 PM

Very true Ranchman. I sell hunts every year not to make any money but to remove X amount and also to help pay for feeding my Ibex. I would think after seeing what it cost in time and price of feed trying to sell WT hunts and make any real money out of it would be tough. I am sure at one time when the captive breeding started the sky was the limit in what could be charged. Now that the market is saturated with those deer supply and demand comes into play. Also everyone knows that deer like some of these are not running around in the wild and you can't with any honesty say what a tough hunt it was. But I also believe the down turn of the oil and gas industry has had quite a bit of effect on it. I know for a fact it did for me when we did it for a living back in the 80's.
Posted By: EddieWalker

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/12/16 01:28 PM

I've noticed whitetails being offered for lower prices and associated it with the same thing happening with different animals in South Africa. Sable and Cape Buffalo are now being advertised at thousands of dollars less then what they where going for a few years ago. In my opinion, I feel it's because the world economy is flat and fewer people are spending the money they used to. At the same time, outfitters and land owners have increased their herds and are losing money feeding them. Supply and Demand. The drop in oil has caused a lot of big spenders to hunker down and wait it out.

When Saudi Arabia stops dumping oil on the market, and Iran runs out of US money, the price of oil will go back up and spending by those in the oil industry will increase again. I think the down turn is going to continue for another year at least.
Posted By: txtrophy85

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/12/16 02:23 PM

Also whitetail in general may be losing popularity.

I have no desire to pay to shoot a whitetail but I will pay to shoot a mule deer or elk. I know many other people who feel the same way who have no problem affording high end package hunts.

Hunters can only shoot so many whitetail before they want to hunt something else
Posted By: stxranchman

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/12/16 09:11 PM

Originally Posted By: txtrophy85
Also whitetail in general may be losing popularity.

I have no desire to pay to shoot a whitetail but I will pay to shoot a mule deer or elk. I know many other people who feel the same way who have no problem affording high end package hunts.

Hunters can only shoot so many whitetail before they want to hunt something else

trout Really? Where exactly do I fit into that statement? popcorn
Posted By: bossbowman

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/15/16 05:01 PM

Originally Posted By: 5Redman8
Hope it plummets....better sell before TPWD shuts em down
Yep, lot of uncertainty in that industry right now...
Posted By: ETXRaider

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/15/16 05:34 PM

Originally Posted By: bossbowman
Originally Posted By: 5Redman8
Hope it plummets....better sell before TPWD shuts em down
Yep, lot of uncertainty in that industry right now...


Why hope that it plummets?
Posted By: titan2232

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/15/16 05:56 PM

Originally Posted By: txtrophy85
Also whitetail in general may be losing popularity.

I have no desire to pay to shoot a whitetail but I will pay to shoot a mule deer or elk. I know many other people who feel the same way who have no problem affording high end package hunts.

Hunters can only shoot so many whitetail before they want to hunt something else


Heck no
Posted By: SniperRAB

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/15/16 06:00 PM

Originally Posted By: titan2232
Originally Posted By: txtrophy85
Also whitetail in general may be losing popularity.

I have no desire to pay to shoot a whitetail but I will pay to shoot a mule deer or elk. I know many other people who feel the same way who have no problem affording high end package hunts.

Hunters can only shoot so many whitetail before they want to hunt something else


Heck no





Everyone's a Big Country Elk Hunter now rofl

Tickles me to Death...Less Pressure

Colorado and NM are that a way roflmao
Posted By: Wilhunt

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/15/16 06:36 PM

Don't believe the WT hunters will ever reach the point of many hunters tiring of hunting them. Perhaps those who travel extensively and spend many $ on other hunts will reach that point. The economy and fewer hunters as time passes, will have more effect. For me, I still get excited seeing any buck.
Posted By: TxDispatcher

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/15/16 08:19 PM

Originally Posted By: wilhunt
Don't believe the WT hunters will ever reach the point of many hunters tiring of hunting them. Perhaps those who travel extensively and spend many $ on other hunts will reach that point. The economy and fewer hunters as time passes, will have more effect. For me, I still get excited seeing any buck.

WT hunters as a general whole, probably won't tire of it. Trophy hunters who want to go out and shoot a huge buck without the "thrill" of the actual hunt? Maybe
Posted By: therancher

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/16/16 07:56 AM

I'm sold out. At list prices. I don't import bucks so I can't speak to that. But either I'm too low on list prices, or prices/demand haven't dropped in my customer base.
Posted By: txtrophy85

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/16/16 01:54 PM

Originally Posted By: stxranchman
Originally Posted By: txtrophy85
Also whitetail in general may be losing popularity.

I have no desire to pay to shoot a whitetail but I will pay to shoot a mule deer or elk. I know many other people who feel the same way who have no problem affording high end package hunts.

Hunters can only shoot so many whitetail before they want to hunt something else

trout Really? Where exactly do I fit into that statement? popcorn


Your just weird
Posted By: hunterbuck

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/17/16 03:37 PM

HF hunting to me is like purchasing art. I have a 241" double drop tine buck I killed on HF ( took 3 days to hunt him, but knew he was out there ). I also have a 163" main frame typical 13pt. from low fence. The double drop buck is beautiful but I catch myself starring at the LF buck way more often. Nothing wrong with hunting HF especially now if your budget allows, there's some deals out there. I'm starting to see HF and LF hunts close the gap on pricing.
Posted By: Buckenvy

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? - 08/19/16 01:29 PM


3 1/2 yr old low fence, gets to walk another yr...about $8k invested for 2yrs.... what was the real question again? I didn't understand I huess...
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