Well Good Deal...

Seems the markets having the "Ping Pong" effect we have seen for years... J Lindsey said they are buying with a "frenzy"

HF is alive and prospering

I'm far from an economist or an expert on the deer business, but I feel like 2 things have hurt deer sales this year....oil prices and uncertainty over CWD testing regs.

Lots of hunts are bought by companies tied to oil industry and a fair number of ranches are owned by people in the oil industry.

CWD live testing regs still aren't officially official I don't think. I know I've been testing some though and so have a bunch of others. I talked to the lab today. What used to be a 7-10 day turn around is now 4-5 weeks. Got some folks sweating over if they'll have what they need to move deer in time.

"We will see. I think it will change - and is already doing so. A "shift away" from them will be reflected in the market."

You're the one that made the bold statement. I just offered a friendly wager.
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The big players in breeding aren't going to be affected by cost or turnaround. It's the middle and little guy that are dropping out.

I would venture to say that the majority of places that are now HF and those that will be are because of two things. One is that the person that HF's is going to raise Exotics. Two is because of neighbors.

It's as easy as asking a fencing co what the wait time is. 6 months or more in my areas. Some will tell you they can get to it sooner. But typically they're lying.

Can shoot a grain fed steer for a lot less money and a lot better eating.

Ill take venison over beef anyday. but yes quantity to $ cattle make a good deal

The price one is willing to pay depends on what that person is looking for in a hunt. That is their choice, always has been and always will be. I don't see prices changing anymore today than they have in the past. Nothing is getting cheaper these days.

Actually, the prices for the genetically/nutritionally enhanced megabucks are way cheaper than they used to be.

IMO the trend is not analogous to the oil & gas cycles because the major driver in that cycle has been/is supply (at least to date). Folks still need gas and oil.

The driver for the big bucks has been/is demand. Folks don't need big bucks. I believe attitudes are changing and will continue to change. Therefore, I believe that demand will stabilize at some point and supply will have to necessarily change to adapt. The good businessmen will adapt and survive, the not-so-good ones will not.

In other words, there will always be some demand for artificially bred megabucks and there will always be some demand for HF hunts of different types - but IMO that demand is lessening and will find its floor as time passes. Time will tell where that floor will be.

HF hunting will never go away unless it is made illegal for some reason. I do not see that happening in Texas - certainly not across the board.

Says the guy in the glass house.

If form holds, your next post will accuse me of trolling.

It's cheaper to shoot a bigger deer now than it used to be because there are more of them. Kinda like when flatscreen tv's came out.

I've seen 170" deer advertised for $7500

Is that supposed to be high or low?

Very well said PMK.

There's a post in the outfitter section for up to 200" for $4500. Says most will be 170". Selling deer ain't what it used to be.

It would be neither if the landowner is getting that for a hunt and the hunter is paying it. That would make the correct asking price in their situation. Every hunting situation is different. Those who are over priced and want to sell hunts will either drop their prices or not sell as many hunts. Those that have been in-line or below others with their prices will always stay booked on hunts. We all know there is more to a price of a hunt than just the animal. The way hunts are priced have always been like that, some in-line and some over priced. The hunts are priced one way or the other for a reason. Some manage for numbers of mature animals and limit/adjust their hunts each year while others just sell the same "x" number of hunts every year. One place may place more value on the deer without food/lodging while the next might place more value on the hunt, accommodations/ food/lodging, and the deer as a package.

Very true Ranchman. I sell hunts every year not to make any money but to remove X amount and also to help pay for feeding my Ibex. I would think after seeing what it cost in time and price of feed trying to sell WT hunts and make any real money out of it would be tough. I am sure at one time when the captive breeding started the sky was the limit in what could be charged. Now that the market is saturated with those deer supply and demand comes into play. Also everyone knows that deer like some of these are not running around in the wild and you can't with any honesty say what a tough hunt it was. But I also believe the down turn of the oil and gas industry has had quite a bit of effect on it. I know for a fact it did for me when we did it for a living back in the 80's.

I've noticed whitetails being offered for lower prices and associated it with the same thing happening with different animals in South Africa. Sable and Cape Buffalo are now being advertised at thousands of dollars less then what they where going for a few years ago. In my opinion, I feel it's because the world economy is flat and fewer people are spending the money they used to. At the same time, outfitters and land owners have increased their herds and are losing money feeding them. Supply and Demand. The drop in oil has caused a lot of big spenders to hunker down and wait it out.

When Saudi Arabia stops dumping oil on the market, and Iran runs out of US money, the price of oil will go back up and spending by those in the oil industry will increase again. I think the down turn is going to continue for another year at least.

Also whitetail in general may be losing popularity.

I have no desire to pay to shoot a whitetail but I will pay to shoot a mule deer or elk. I know many other people who feel the same way who have no problem affording high end package hunts.

Hunters can only shoot so many whitetail before they want to hunt something else

Really? Where exactly do I fit into that statement?

Yep, lot of uncertainty in that industry right now...

Why hope that it plummets?

Heck no