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Feb 12th, 2024
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 Re: 6mm vs 6.5mm creedmoor
[Re: MrSand]
#6058166
11/30/15 06:21 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,198
J.G.
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I'm aware of body sizes, and know the formula by heart. Trouble is, the height of the shoulder on a hog, coyote, deer is not a set number, therfore it causes a variance in the math. You will get close ranging with the reticle, but you will not be perfect 100% of the time.
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Re: 6mm vs 6.5mm creedmoor
[Re: Cleric]
#6058179
11/30/15 06:27 PM
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 16
MrSand
Light Foot
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Light Foot
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Posts: 16 |
If you know how to range, then you also know how to do a proper range card, either by pen and paper or if it is a place that is frequented often, mentally. As part of that is known sizes of items for reference... heck for hunting the inside spread of a deer's antlers is fairly easy to gauge... anyways I can see it is pointless trying to discuss anything further. Clearly you are an expert on all things (in your mind anyways) have a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
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Re: 6mm vs 6.5mm creedmoor
[Re: Cleric]
#6058184
11/30/15 06:31 PM
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 15,731
603Country
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Wow, what a grump!
I'd go for the 6.5.
And I still need a good RF. Another big hog got past me last evening. About 450 yards. I guess I need a 6mm CM, it being a true laser beam.
Last edited by 603Country; 11/30/15 06:40 PM.
Not my monkeys, not my circus...
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Re: 6mm vs 6.5mm creedmoor
[Re: MrSand]
#6058187
11/30/15 06:31 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,198
J.G.
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Go back to the point of the thread, 6mm vs. 6.5mm. And lets look at Cleric's chart 500 to 800 yards.
.....6mm.....6.5mm
500...2.2...2.7
600...3.0...3.7
700...3.9...4.7
800...4.8...5.8
So lets use your "flat shooting term" (which really doesn't exist, in terms of "long range"). And only look at the 6mm
Judge the distance 500 and it's actually 600, you're .8 Mil off. A mil at 600 yards is 21.6", multiply by .8 and you missed by 17.3" at the target. That's a miss on a 2 MOA piece of steel, a miss on a coyote, a miss on a hog, a miss on a deer.
So back to my original statement, bullet drop is irrelavent in long range. But to satisfy you WE MUST KNOW THE DISTANCE TO THE TARGET WITH ANY CARTRIDGE.
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Re: 6mm vs 6.5mm creedmoor
[Re: Cleric]
#6058189
11/30/15 06:32 PM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 713
headhunter54
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Tracker
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Re: 6mm vs 6.5mm creedmoor
[Re: Cleric]
#6058205
11/30/15 06:40 PM
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 16
MrSand
Light Foot
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Light Foot
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 16 |
Please don't put words in my mouth. It's a cheap and childish way to try to "win".
I said flatter.
If you miss judge the distance by 100 yards, it's probably time to practice using those skills that you know by heart. LOL
Back to what I was saying. A flatter shooting cartridge will be more forgiving of slight ranging errors. No it will not make up for your "skills" but for most here it will get them on target.
My original point: bullet drop is not irrelevant, it depends. Depends if it is known distance, and in that case the relevance is minimized, but in unknown/certain ranges a flatter shooting will allow for a larger margin of error.
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Re: 6mm vs 6.5mm creedmoor
[Re: MacDaddy21]
#6058244
11/30/15 07:00 PM
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 16
MrSand
Light Foot
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Light Foot
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 16 |
Both are nice, but I copied this guy's chambering and it spanks both of those easily. Link to thread I'm seeing velocity with 140gr VLD's in the 2950 fps range with very low ES. 6.5 SLR is a beast! I helped a friend get one built and it shoots extremely well. Brass choices are awesome too. One of his early group at 500 was under 1.5". Sweet round for sure. King of the 6.5's IMO. I originally was going to go for GA Precision's 6.5 RSAUM, but the brass availability had me on the fence, then I stumbled on that guy's post. I'm glad I did. I still don't know what the top end is, as I have been so happy with the performance so far I haven't had the desire to wring it out.
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Re: 6mm vs 6.5mm creedmoor
[Re: MrSand]
#6058249
11/30/15 07:02 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,198
J.G.
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Posts: 41,198 |
That's cool. Be upset and take what ever stance you like.
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Re: 6mm vs 6.5mm creedmoor
[Re: MrSand]
#6058284
11/30/15 07:15 PM
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,107
catslayer
Pro Tracker
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Fireman... look at his post count... he is trolling
Dumbest thing I've heard on here... Fireman and "ignorant" in the same post bahhahahhahha
Sombody smells like fried borritos...
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Re: 6mm vs 6.5mm creedmoor
[Re: J.G.]
#6058353
11/30/15 07:46 PM
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 16
MrSand
Light Foot
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Light Foot
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Posts: 16 |
The only one that seemed to be upset is you. Is it me, or can you not stand when anyone points out when a post of yours is not factually correct(a simple question since I'm new here)?
It's nothing personal, just trying to share accurate information, take it or leave it. If this is not what this forum is for, my apologies.
Any who, have a wonderful day.
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Re: 6mm vs 6.5mm creedmoor
[Re: MrSand]
#6058432
11/30/15 08:22 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,198
J.G.
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just trying to share accurate information, take it or leave it. If this is not what this forum is for, my apologies.
You opinion that it is accurate, my opinion is that it is not. Agree to disagree. Yes that is what this forum is for.
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Re: 6mm vs 6.5mm creedmoor
[Re: Cleric]
#6058493
11/30/15 08:52 PM
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 16
MrSand
Light Foot
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Light Foot
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 16 |
Well, let me break it down a little so that you can understand that I am factually correct, no opinion needed. In your earlier example you used 500 yards so I will do the same. If while ranging there is a +/- 25 yard error that will translate into: 6mm: So at 475 yards the bullet drops 35.2 inches at 500 yards the bullet drops 40.3 inches at 525 yards the bullet drops 45.9 inches So if the shooter ranged 500 yards and the deer is actually 475 yards the shot will be 5.1 inches high If the shooter ranged 500 yards and the deer is actually 525 yards the shot will be 5.6 inches low The same scenario with the 6.5mm moving at 2800 fps: So at 475 yards the bullet drops 43.4 inches at 500 yards the bullet drops 49.6 inches at 525 yards the bullet drops 56.3 inches So if the shooter ranged 500 yards and the deer is actually 475 yards the shot will be 6.2 inches high If the shooter ranged 500 yards and the deer is actually 525 yards the shot will be 6.7 inches low So even with the two closely matched cartridges you can see that the 6mm will shoot roughly 2.2 inches (or 17%) less in total drop when compared to it's 6.5mm cousin. Providing more margin for error. It's really not complicated, nor worth getting all snotty over. Assumptions for calc: Berger hybrids 6mm 3100 fps 6.5mm 2800 fps default atmospherics calculator used: JBM http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj-5.1.cgiCheers
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Re: 6mm vs 6.5mm creedmoor
[Re: MrSand]
#6058555
11/30/15 09:19 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,198
J.G.
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Posts: 41,198 |
Are you deranged? I've never been upset, and am not snotty.
All of this is because you don't want to use a range finder, that's the basis of your argument. 2.2" less drop at the target, big whoop, dial one more tenth Mil on the turret. And Cleric said this will be a target rifle, so he will have the time to bump the target with a laser prior to shooting at it. When he shoots at my range, I'll tell him how far every target is, and how they're labeled. The only single time I've given at rat's a$$ of how much elevation correction I needed was shooting my 7 Rem Mag a mile. And the only reason I was concerned was if I was going to run out of travel. Sure enough, I did, topped out at 22.0 Mils, but needed 24.5. It bothered me for one second, because all I had to do was hold the extra 2.5 Mils to make up the difference. 1400 yards, and in, either the 6mm or the 6.5 mm will allow most scopes to dial exactly to where they need to be.
This is just silly.
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Re: 6mm vs 6.5mm creedmoor
[Re: Cleric]
#6058562
11/30/15 09:21 PM
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,777
P_102
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MrSand, perhaps you would be better received if you refrained from comments like; "kind of ignorant", "cheap and childish" and "snotty".....just my opinion of course.
P_102
Do not trifle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
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Re: 6mm vs 6.5mm creedmoor
[Re: Cleric]
#6058564
11/30/15 09:22 PM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,499
charlesb
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I would never shoot at any game animal over 300 yards away. Rocks, steel plates, yes... Game animals, no.
- But that's just me.
Last edited by charlesb; 11/30/15 09:22 PM.
Kind regards, charlesb
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Re: 6mm vs 6.5mm creedmoor
[Re: Cleric]
#6058567
11/30/15 09:22 PM
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 16
MrSand
Light Foot
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Light Foot
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 16 |
And hunting... you seem to have issues... Are you deranged? I've never been upset, and am not snotty.
And Cleric said this will be a target rifle, so he will have the time to bump the target with a laser prior to shooting at it. When he shoots at my range, I'll tell him how far every target is, and how they're labeled.
This is just silly. I guess a lot of that depends upon the intended purpose.
Lot of truth here. This would be a paper/steel puncher. Maybe the occasional hunt Besides, my comment was directed to your altruistic comment that drop doesn't matter and I simply corrected you. I corrected you by pointing out that it depends, gave an example, further broke the example down with hard numbers to support how drop can matter. Cheers
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Re: 6mm vs 6.5mm creedmoor
[Re: P_102]
#6058569
11/30/15 09:23 PM
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 16
MrSand
Light Foot
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Light Foot
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 16 |
Point taken. MrSand, perhaps you would be better received if you refrained from comments like; "kind of ignorant", "cheap and childish" and "snotty".....just my opinion of course.
P_102
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Re: 6mm vs 6.5mm creedmoor
[Re: MrSand]
#6058643
11/30/15 09:57 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,198
J.G.
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I've have no issues.
You've still not convinced me, or probably anyone else around here, that elevation correction matters on a target rifle.
Again, a difference of opinion. Some people's matter, some don't...
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Re: 6mm vs 6.5mm creedmoor
[Re: J.G.]
#6058645
11/30/15 09:58 PM
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 16
MrSand
Light Foot
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Light Foot
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Oh, and one last time, please do not put words in my mouth. I'll be honest, that does bother me. All of this is because you don't want to use a range finder, that's the basis of your argument. I never said that. However, being able to (accurately) range with a reticle for hunting or shooting steel is a very good skill to have (that is my opinion anyways).
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Re: 6mm vs 6.5mm creedmoor
[Re: Cleric]
#6058855
11/30/15 11:37 PM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,954
huntwest
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I think MrSand has some sand in his knickers!
Just say he is right and maybe he will go away.
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Re: 6mm vs 6.5mm creedmoor
[Re: Cleric]
#6058894
11/30/15 11:50 PM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,439
TFF Caribou
Extreme Tracker
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Like I said...  Saw it coming...
The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference. -George Washington
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Re: 6mm vs 6.5mm creedmoor
[Re: Cleric]
#6058922
12/01/15 12:02 AM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 19,277
Judd
#1 Creedmoor Fan
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#1 Creedmoor Fan
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 19,277 |
I'm a 6mm whore and would take the 6 Creedmoor over the 6.5 but as everyone has outlined...there isn't a whole lot of difference between them. The hybrid is a baddonkey when it comes to bucking the wind. But so is the 140 hybrid...it just don't/can't carry speed like the 6mm. Two things beat the wind...speed & BC. I want both and the 6mm's give me that. The only place that a 6.5 is really better on watching splashes or hearing ding steel is over 800y and I'd argue most matches are won with shots less than 800y. Most guys shooting either long range benchrest clay stuff or tactical stuff have went to the 6...it's just more fun to shoot and that 105hybird is bad medicine. I've got 4 right now and thinking about a 5th 
Don't let your ears hear what your eyes didn't see, and don't let your mouth say what your heart doesn't feel
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Re: 6mm vs 6.5mm creedmoor
[Re: MrSand]
#6059099
12/01/15 01:14 AM
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,053
bo3
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Well, let me break it down a little so that you can understand that I am factually correct, no opinion needed. In your earlier example you used 500 yards so I will do the same. If while ranging there is a +/- 25 yard error that will translate into: 6mm: So at 475 yards the bullet drops 35.2 inches at 500 yards the bullet drops 40.3 inches at 525 yards the bullet drops 45.9 inches So if the shooter ranged 500 yards and the deer is actually 475 yards the shot will be 5.1 inches high If the shooter ranged 500 yards and the deer is actually 525 yards the shot will be 5.6 inches low The same scenario with the 6.5mm moving at 2800 fps: So at 475 yards the bullet drops 43.4 inches at 500 yards the bullet drops 49.6 inches at 525 yards the bullet drops 56.3 inches So if the shooter ranged 500 yards and the deer is actually 475 yards the shot will be 6.2 inches high If the shooter ranged 500 yards and the deer is actually 525 yards the shot will be 6.7 inches low So even with the two closely matched cartridges you can see that the 6mm will shoot roughly 2.2 inches (or 17%) less in total drop when compared to it's 6.5mm cousin. Providing more margin for error. It's really not complicated, nor worth getting all snotty over. Assumptions for calc: Berger hybrids 6mm 3100 fps 6.5mm 2800 fps default atmospherics calculator used: JBM http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj-5.1.cgiCheers Not much of a difference. The problem is the two rounds in question are to close. There is a reason they are popular for competition. If you compared on to a 308 you would have a point but these two are too close in performance.
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Re: 6mm vs 6.5mm creedmoor
[Re: Cleric]
#6059222
12/01/15 01:47 AM
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Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 868
Txhillbilly
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 868 |
Never had any 6mm rifles,but I have three in 6.5mm and they work for me.
6.5 Creedmoor - 260 Remington - 6.5/06 A Square
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Re: 6mm vs 6.5mm creedmoor
[Re: Txhillbilly]
#6059274
12/01/15 02:04 AM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,832
Drop Tine
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,832 |
Never had any 6mm rifles,but I have three in 6.5mm and they work for me.
6.5 Creedmoor - 260 Remington - 6.5/06 A Square How do you like the 6.5-06? Been considering one of them for a custom build. What kind of performance are you seeing with 130's & 140's?
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