6mm vs 6.5mm creedmoor

Any reason to go 6.5? I am thinking about doing a 6mm creedmoor in an xlr chassis. I would use the Berger 105. The 6.5 has a bit more bullet choices but the 105 Berger is a beast

I'm a 6.5 nut, SO... 6.5 would be me choice.

I just picked up my 6mn creed yesterday. I now have both. I need to shoot the 6mm

I believe the 6mm burns barrels faster, do your own research on that. I have a 6.5 SAUM in the works.

I like more a$$ on target than a 105 grain bullet. So, a 140 grain 6.5 mm is for me.

Yup, same here.

yeah... that BC on the 6.5 has nothing to do with it lol

I guess a lot of that depends upon the intended purpose.

dont you use a 110-120 grain 300BO for hunting?

Lot of truth here. This would be a paper/steel puncher. Maybe the occasional hunt

Sounds like a 6mm creed would be one hell of a varmint gun too.

Yes, but the blk out is not my long range caliber. Generally, the 6mm Creedmoor and 6.5mm rounds are used for longer ranges, 600 + yards. When you get out further at distance, the little 6mm bullets become hard to spot your hits/misses. The increase in BC of the 105 compared to the previous 6mm 115 grain, and increased speed of the 105 do help it. But there is a noticeable increase in impact out at distance compared to the 6mm and 6.5mm bullets. The 6mm Creedmoor is a wind cheating, laser beam for sure.

Ahh... Misunderstood your initial comment...


That 6mm from a ballistic standpoint is insane.

Many times at long range matches the guys running 6mm really got lots of help from their fellow competitors. The 6mm would hit steel and the range officer wouldn't call "impact". Those of us that saw it would tell the R.O. "hey, he hit that". Lack of energy is why it is hard to spot. They really are a great cartridge when you boil it all down, just some of us are stubborn and stay married to our 6.5's

If you want to make a heads up comparison, just for target shooting, compare wind drift of the 6.5 mm against the 6mm. That's really the only numbers that matter in the target world. But keep it on an even playing field, 6mm Creedmoor versus 6.5 Creedmoor. Both are short actions, and both can only push their BC bullet so fast. If you run the hybrid in the 6mm, compare it against a hybrid in the 6.5mm.

Not much wind difference. But some drop differences

Why not just shoot a 115 @ 3050 and have the best of both worlds....

Both are nice, but I copied this guy's chambering and it spanks both of those easily.

Link to thread

I'm seeing velocity with 140gr VLD's in the 2950 fps range with very low ES.

Drop is irrelavent. The 6.5 just needs the elevation turret turned a little farther, is all.

It depends, stating flatly that it is irrelevant is kind of ignorant.

If it is known distance, yes you are correct.

If you are ranging with your reticle, not so much. The flatter shooting option will give more margin for error.

6.5 SLR is a beast! I helped a friend get one built and it shoots extremely well. Brass choices are awesome too. One of his early group at 500 was under 1.5". Sweet round for sure. King of the 6.5's IMO.

I promise I'm not ignorant to any of it.

We're not talking about 300 yards and in, heck plenty of guys can make a .30-30 work for those ranges. We're talking about "long range" and in long range I thought we all understood the distance needs to be known. The farther the shot, the more pronounced the bullet drop. It doesn't matter what you are shooting past 500 yards, misranging by 100 or even 50 yards can cause a clean miss, even on a 2 MOA target.

Laser range finders have been around for a long time. Ranging with a reticle is a good skill to have, but only as a back-up to the laser. Having to KNOW the size of what you are ranging is impossible when it comes to living things. The military uses the 6' tall man, well what if he is 5'6" or 6'4"? They will still get a hit, but that is a hit on a human torso. Competition shooting and hunting means many of us shoot significantly smaller than that.

Flatter = more margin for error, it really is that simple.

Here is a nice read for you to better understand how to use a reticle properly since you admit that for you it is impossible to range animals. It is not as precise as a laser, but will work in a pinch (speaking from experience).

Link to how to range animals using mil dot reticles

I'm aware of body sizes, and know the formula by heart. Trouble is, the height of the shoulder on a hog, coyote, deer is not a set number, therfore it causes a variance in the math. You will get close ranging with the reticle, but you will not be perfect 100% of the time.

If you know how to range, then you also know how to do a proper range card, either by pen and paper or if it is a place that is frequented often, mentally. As part of that is known sizes of items for reference... heck for hunting the inside spread of a deer's antlers is fairly easy to gauge... anyways I can see it is pointless trying to discuss anything further. Clearly you are an expert on all things (in your mind anyways) have a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

Wow, what a grump!

I'd go for the 6.5.

And I still need a good RF. Another big hog got past me last evening. About 450 yards. I guess I need a 6mm CM, it being a true laser beam.

Go back to the point of the thread, 6mm vs. 6.5mm. And lets look at Cleric's chart 500 to 800 yards.

.....6mm.....6.5mm

500...2.2...2.7
600...3.0...3.7
700...3.9...4.7
800...4.8...5.8

So lets use your "flat shooting term" (which really doesn't exist, in terms of "long range"). And only look at the 6mm

Judge the distance 500 and it's actually 600, you're .8 Mil off. A mil at 600 yards is 21.6", multiply by .8 and you missed by 17.3" at the target. That's a miss on a 2 MOA piece of steel, a miss on a coyote, a miss on a hog, a miss on a deer.

So back to my original statement, bullet drop is irrelavent in long range. But to satisfy you WE MUST KNOW THE DISTANCE TO THE TARGET WITH ANY CARTRIDGE.

Oh snap.

Please don't put words in my mouth. It's a cheap and childish way to try to "win".

I said flatter.

If you miss judge the distance by 100 yards, it's probably time to practice using those skills that you know by heart. LOL

Back to what I was saying. A flatter shooting cartridge will be more forgiving of slight ranging errors. No it will not make up for your "skills" but for most here it will get them on target.

My original point: bullet drop is not irrelevant, it depends. Depends if it is known distance, and in that case the relevance is minimized, but in unknown/certain ranges a flatter shooting will allow for a larger margin of error.

I originally was going to go for GA Precision's 6.5 RSAUM, but the brass availability had me on the fence, then I stumbled on that guy's post. I'm glad I did. I still don't know what the top end is, as I have been so happy with the performance so far I haven't had the desire to wring it out.

That's cool. Be upset and take what ever stance you like.

Fireman... look at his post count... he is trolling


Dumbest thing I've heard on here... Fireman and "ignorant" in the same post bahhahahhahha

The only one that seemed to be upset is you. Is it me, or can you not stand when anyone points out when a post of yours is not factually correct(a simple question since I'm new here)?

It's nothing personal, just trying to share accurate information, take it or leave it. If this is not what this forum is for, my apologies.

Any who, have a wonderful day.

You opinion that it is accurate, my opinion is that it is not. Agree to disagree.

Yes that is what this forum is for.

Well, let me break it down a little so that you can understand that I am factually correct, no opinion needed.

In your earlier example you used 500 yards so I will do the same.

If while ranging there is a +/- 25 yard error that will translate into:

6mm:
So at 475 yards the bullet drops 35.2 inches
at 500 yards the bullet drops 40.3 inches
at 525 yards the bullet drops 45.9 inches

So if the shooter ranged 500 yards and the deer is actually 475 yards the shot will be 5.1 inches high
If the shooter ranged 500 yards and the deer is actually 525 yards the shot will be 5.6 inches low

The same scenario with the 6.5mm moving at 2800 fps:

So at 475 yards the bullet drops 43.4 inches
at 500 yards the bullet drops 49.6 inches
at 525 yards the bullet drops 56.3 inches

So if the shooter ranged 500 yards and the deer is actually 475 yards the shot will be 6.2 inches high
If the shooter ranged 500 yards and the deer is actually 525 yards the shot will be 6.7 inches low

So even with the two closely matched cartridges you can see that the 6mm will shoot roughly 2.2 inches (or 17%) less in total drop when compared to it's 6.5mm cousin. Providing more margin for error. It's really not complicated, nor worth getting all snotty over.

Assumptions for calc:
Berger hybrids
6mm 3100 fps
6.5mm 2800 fps
default atmospherics

calculator used: JBM http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj-5.1.cgi

Cheers

Are you deranged? I've never been upset, and am not snotty.

All of this is because you don't want to use a range finder, that's the basis of your argument. 2.2" less drop at the target, big whoop, dial one more tenth Mil on the turret. And Cleric said this will be a target rifle, so he will have the time to bump the target with a laser prior to shooting at it. When he shoots at my range, I'll tell him how far every target is, and how they're labeled. The only single time I've given at rat's a$$ of how much elevation correction I needed was shooting my 7 Rem Mag a mile. And the only reason I was concerned was if I was going to run out of travel. Sure enough, I did, topped out at 22.0 Mils, but needed 24.5. It bothered me for one second, because all I had to do was hold the extra 2.5 Mils to make up the difference. 1400 yards, and in, either the 6mm or the 6.5 mm will allow most scopes to dial exactly to where they need to be.

This is just silly.

MrSand, perhaps you would be better received if you refrained from comments like; "kind of ignorant", "cheap and childish" and "snotty".....just my opinion of course.

P_102

I would never shoot at any game animal over 300 yards away. Rocks, steel plates, yes... Game animals, no.

- But that's just me.

And hunting... you seem to have issues...





Besides, my comment was directed to your altruistic comment that drop doesn't matter and I simply corrected you. I corrected you by pointing out that it depends, gave an example, further broke the example down with hard numbers to support how drop can matter.

Cheers

Point taken.

I've have no issues.

You've still not convinced me, or probably anyone else around here, that elevation correction matters on a target rifle.

Again, a difference of opinion. Some people's matter, some don't...

Oh, and one last time, please do not put words in my mouth. I'll be honest, that does bother me.



I never said that.

However, being able to (accurately) range with a reticle for hunting or shooting steel is a very good skill to have (that is my opinion anyways).

I think MrSand has some sand in his knickers!
Just say he is right and maybe he will go away.

Like I said...

Saw it coming...

I'm a 6mm whore and would take the 6 Creedmoor over the 6.5 but as everyone has outlined...there isn't a whole lot of difference between them. The hybrid is a baddonkey when it comes to bucking the wind. But so is the 140 hybrid...it just don't/can't carry speed like the 6mm.

Two things beat the wind...speed & BC. I want both and the 6mm's give me that. The only place that a 6.5 is really better on watching splashes or hearing ding steel is over 800y and I'd argue most matches are won with shots less than 800y. Most guys shooting either long range benchrest clay stuff or tactical stuff have went to the 6...it's just more fun to shoot and that 105hybird is bad medicine. I've got 4 right now and thinking about a 5th

Not much of a difference. The problem is the two rounds in question are to close. There is a reason they are popular for competition. If you compared on to a 308 you would have a point but these two are too close in performance.

Never had any 6mm rifles,but I have three in 6.5mm and they work for me.
6.5 Creedmoor - 260 Remington - 6.5/06 A Square

How do you like the 6.5-06? Been considering one of them for a custom build. What kind of performance are you seeing with 130's & 140's?

All this bickering over two calipers that can't hold a candle the the good old 308

I agree. Ranging a live animal with the reticle is absolutely foolish anymore. Is it a good formula to know sure but not very ethical in the hunting sense.

As for the op original question I opted for a 6mm Creedmore recently for my match gun and have been really impressed. I have only had one instance of impacts being hard to see and it was on heavy steel with center hits and at ones in the 1100yd area. I will say that I'm not overly fond of the factory Hornady brass and I'm fact I'm debating going 6x47L the next round but it yields identical ballistics.

I've heard they are a lot more finicky to tune. If you want to go that route...get 308 palma brass and make it to 6 Creedmoor. A lot of work but wort it over the 6x47 tuning...my 2 cents.

I have about decided my next match rifle will be a 6brx...same balistics of the 6 Creedmoor and a lot more inherently accurate. Finding a smith that will guarantee it's feeding ability might be challenging but I think in the long run it'll be worth it.

The best way to make 6 creed is buy lapua 22-250 run it in a 6 creed sizing die drop a bullet on top and go shoot. Fire form 250 pieces it only eats a little off the life but the quality of brass you get will be spectacular

Ever heard of commas?

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

With 22-250 brass your necks will be short until they grow about .030 from my Lapua I ran thru my Creedmoor.
The Nosler brass I have is just as consistent as Lapua although it may not last as long.... Yet to be seen.

I shoot with several that run both the 6mm and 6.5mm versions and none act like it is overly difficult. Most seem to think that it's easier than the Creedmore. I have debated going the Palma brass route but it's a lot of work when there's a decent chance of loosing brass at matches. I'm about to order another batch of 6mm Creedmore brass as I think there might have been a bit of a bad batch around when I got mine.

not, since, i, started, posting, from, my, iphone,,,,,,,,,,,,

Simply depends on what your wanting to use it for and personal preff. I shoot a 115 DTAC at 3100 out a 6 creed, and it will give me the nod to a 6.5 creed in a match with unknown distances, or fast drills with small margins. As far as game goes, I haven't found a pig or deer that's made it to tell me the diff. As a side note, I've put thousands of rounds through both, and they are both fine choices. Factory brass and plenty of boolet choices for either.

I like the 6mm. 105 hybrid at 3050 out of my 243 is some bad medicine. Farthest I have been able to shoot it so far is 800. With the brake and heavy rifle I can watch my own impacts from 200ish out. As pointed out there isn't much difference and it's mostly personal preference with the 6 having a slight nod in the drift department. But ballistics wise to me they are pretty even.

Walter

Walter, what twist rate is your .243? Thanks.

P_102

I am wondering what the true bc of the new Hornady 6.5. Now I am leaning more towards 6.5. I think measuring distance will be easier than wind

From my experience Hornady tells the truth on BC.

Of course measuring distance is the easy part, push a button. Reading wind is an art form that only makes artists after lots of practice.

Accubond lr is supposedly .7+ by nosler

They have lied before. I'm sure it is super high, but .7 seems way high for a 6.5mm. The chrono you have will tell the tale. Do a tracking test on your scope first.

1/8 Brux

Walter

Haven't got the gun....


Thinking of a 26in 6.5 creed, heavy Palma in a xlr Carbon stock

Why 26"? So long and heavy Palma so heavy

Stay cool and get every once of performance

Bullet even with the lands
CCI 200
H-4350 42.0- 43.0 gr. should get a 140 gr. to 2820 fps.

Mine is 25" and is 2800 fps. Put a JEC brake on it and watch impact happen 200 yards and out.

Been shooting them and if they are off its not by much

Not sure about the 140s but the 129gr ALR are pretty close to published. According to Litz the 129s are within 2% of advertised, some shooters dope plays that out as well. The 140s are higher as would be expected but not sure they are as high as advertised. But I will take a Nosler over the Berger hunting bullets I have tried any day.

Do wish Hornady, Nosler and the rest would publish G7 BC and not just G1

I am trying to find a good calculator so I can plug in velocity data from my lab radar on 190 accubond lr

Cleric try JBM Ballistics, it is pretty good

The advanced one on the Hornady site has been good as well

QuickTarget that comes with Quickload is also good.

For bc?

Found it... Will play around with that later

Well that is impressive! To get that much BC out of a 140 gr. 6.5mm.

I love it. I built it as a hunting rifle with a McGowen 26" stainless barrel,1-8 twist,Shilen 5.5 contour. I've shot a few 140's out of it,but mainly shoot the Sierra Pro Hunter 160 grain bullet out of it. The rifle shoots great.
Here's the 6.5/06 next to a 6.5 Creedmoor and 223 cartridges.



I only shot 3 shot groups with the 160 grain bullets.They are discontinued,and I only have 300 of them,so they have to last a while.



Here's a 5 shot group with some Hornady 140 grain BTHP Match.

How fast will it push a 140?

the 6.5-06 has about the same case capacity as the 6.5 Remington magnum and 6.5/284 so with enough barrel length 3000fps is certainly doable.

Like DStroud said,it's about the same as a 6.5-284.

There are a couple sets of triplets in the 6.5 bore size that within their group performance is about equal velocity wise

6.5X47, 260Rem, and 6.5X55
6.5-06, 6.5Rem Mag and 6.5-284

Pretty peppy. Try that Accubond with the alleged .7 BC and you'd have some stout medicine without as much recoil as other options.

Here is a good read, looks like the top guys a switching back to the 6mm.
http://precisionrifleblog.com/2015/10/12/best-rifle-caliber/

Sheep will always follow the heard.

Herd......FIFY

Flock.....FIFY again

Just getting a smell of shooting short actions past 800 yds so far. This is a question not an opinion. When/what level of shooting/distance does the 6.5 or 6mm creedmoor best a hand loaded 243 with a 105-115? My personal go to rifle is a 6.5 savage creed with factory 129 sst's but I've shot and hand loaded quite a few med rifles in 223, 224tth, 6.5 creed, up to 300rum and some 338 Lapua. But I'm all ears.

BC for the 6.5 Creed, look at the 140 gr Berger Hybrid for instance

ES for the 6 Creed. 243's will get it done, they can also be picky to make shoot, more so than the 6 Creed, simply due to case geometry.

When you start regularly going beyond 400 yards, every little bit of help, and every little detail matter, especially when trying to stay inside 1/2- 1 MOA

6mm 105gr Hybrid running 3100 will run side by side with a 6.5 140gr hybrid running in the 2750-2800 range till around the 800yd mark. In prs which the article is linked from majority of shots are in the 400-900 area so the fast low recoiling 6mm is king. There are several running 6.5 but staying in the 2750 area to have a safe load that runs in all conditions.