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NEW LEASE,AGE OPINIONS
#5875405
08/12/15 07:09 PM
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Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 3
buckbass
OP
Green Horn
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OP
Green Horn
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 3 |
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Re: NEW LEASE,AGE OPINIONS
[Re: buckbass]
#5875431
08/12/15 07:19 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,605
fouzman
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,605 |
Mature. At least 5 if not 6 or 7. Both of them. How many offspring will one sire in one more year? What if he breeds a crummy doe? Trophy deer that are mature to post mature. Take your pick.
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Re: NEW LEASE,AGE OPINIONS
[Re: fouzman]
#5875509
08/12/15 07:50 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,179
therancher
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,179 |
Doesn't matter to me how old they are. How big is the place, I can assure you that if they are exposed to other hunters, they'll find one who'll kill them.
Based on the fact that you have mostly native genetics, you'll never really see overall improvement based on genetics.
So the question is, do you want those deer to be on your wall or someone elses, without ever having the opportunity on that particular ranch to see a deer of that quality again?
Crotchety old bastidge
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Re: NEW LEASE,AGE OPINIONS
[Re: therancher]
#5875536
08/12/15 08:02 PM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 35,899
txshntr
T-Rex Arms
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T-Rex Arms
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 35,899 |
Doesn't matter to me how old they are. How big is the place, I can assure you that if they are exposed to other hunters, they'll find one who'll kill them.
Based on the fact that you have mostly native genetics, you'll never really see overall improvement based on genetics.
So the question is, do you want those deer to be on your wall or someone elses, without ever having the opportunity on that particular ranch to see a deer of that quality again? I would agree with therancher. Introduction of a few breeder bucks isn't going to make much difference in the genetics of the overall herd. Even in HF conditions, the introduction of genetics required to make a significant impact is substantial. The native genetics will eventually win out, especially on a LF place. Given the chance, I would take them.
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Re: NEW LEASE,AGE OPINIONS
[Re: buckbass]
#5875557
08/12/15 08:11 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,666
John Humbert
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,666 |
The genetic effect would negligible. They are mature deer. I wouldn't hesitate a second if I saw one - in fact, I'd try to make it down during bow season. Consider yourself very, very lucky and get you one!
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Re: NEW LEASE,AGE OPINIONS
[Re: buckbass]
#5875701
08/12/15 09:26 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 13,219
CCBIRDDOGMAN
Bird Herder
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Bird Herder
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 13,219 |
I wouldn't even think about letting either one of those deer walk if I saw them on a ranch I have permission to hunt deer on.
Haven't had it in years but never spit any out. I am a sucker for happy endings and strapped cowboys.
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Re: NEW LEASE,AGE OPINIONS
[Re: therancher]
#5875752
08/12/15 10:06 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,103
tlk
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,103 |
Doesn't matter to me how old they are. How big is the place, I can assure you that if they are exposed to other hunters, they'll find one who'll kill them.
Based on the fact that you have mostly native genetics, you'll never really see overall improvement based on genetics.
So the question is, do you want those deer to be on your wall or someone elses, without ever having the opportunity on that particular ranch to see a deer of that quality again? I agree the size of the place is a factor. But I am curious. If really good deer like this get to breed for one or two more years maybe it does not improve overall genetics but would it not have the potential of those bucks siring some more offspring of their quality? We have taken bucks off of our lease that are dead ringers for their daddy. So if the property is large enough that odds are against a neighbor killing the deer, would it not increase the chances of more top end bucks down the line to let them live and breed? First two pictures below are of a buck we are now watching and think is out of the same bloodline as the bottom deer. And by the way to the OP, awesome deer and looks like you got on a place with much potential -
Last edited by tlk; 08/12/15 10:25 PM.
You can't fix stupid
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Re: NEW LEASE,AGE OPINIONS
[Re: buckbass]
#5875779
08/12/15 10:34 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,605
fouzman
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,605 |
At home now where I can see these photos in more detail. Drops is 7-8 and the double row typical looks at least 6, to me.
As to tlk's question. I've seen your photos. You guys know mature deer. The OP said these bucks don't hang around much. I imagine they spend most of their time in the fringe areas just outside their home turf. I agree with letting them die of old age if there were enough acreage and a co-op. That doesn't sound like the case.
OP, those photos were a month ago. Would love to see them now! Pick your favorite and go after him. Both deer are OLD!
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Re: NEW LEASE,AGE OPINIONS
[Re: fouzman]
#5875795
08/12/15 10:44 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,103
tlk
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,103 |
At home now where I can see these photos in more detail. Drops is 7-8 and the double row typical looks at least 6, to me.
As to tlk's question. I've seen your photos. You guys know mature deer. The OP said these bucks don't hang around much. I imagine they spend most of their time in the fringe areas just outside their home turf. I agree with letting them die of old age if there were enough acreage and a co-op. That doesn't sound like the case.
OP, those photos were a month ago. Would love to see them now! Pick your favorite and go after him. Both deer are OLD!
Yes - you are right - it is all relative. If it is a small acreage place and chances are slim to ever see these bucks again then by all means shoot them. We are in a unusual situation where we have enough property that we get little pressure from outside sources.
You can't fix stupid
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Re: NEW LEASE,AGE OPINIONS
[Re: buckbass]
#5876220
08/13/15 02:48 AM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,449
Auctioneer1
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,449 |
If your place is big enough put a protein feeder in the middle of it far away from the fence line trust me it helps keep deer on your place. Do not hunt that feeder at all just fill it and leave don't put a stand going to it as well just let them eat and bed down close. Those deer are mature and I would let them breed every doe they could find good luck.
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Re: NEW LEASE,AGE OPINIONS
[Re: buckbass]
#5876388
08/13/15 08:56 AM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 529
basspromaster
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 529 |
Absolutely incredible looking bucks!! Both are mature big bodied deer that I wouldn't hesitate to shoot. I agree with the rest of the guys here that since you are on a low fence and because they are at the peak of their maturity for antler growth go ahead and take the buck of a lifetime.
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Re: NEW LEASE,AGE OPINIONS
[Re: buckbass]
#5876451
08/13/15 11:09 AM
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 19,669
Pitchfork Predator
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 19,669 |
Those are two dream bucks fully mature. I wouldn't give it a second to think about pulling the string or trigger. Good luck this season.
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Re: NEW LEASE,AGE OPINIONS
[Re: buckbass]
#5876470
08/13/15 11:30 AM
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 11,270
Pope&Young
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 11,270 |
Both great bucks Don't let opportunity pass you by with either And to the forum
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Re: NEW LEASE,AGE OPINIONS
[Re: buckbass]
#5876588
08/13/15 01:11 PM
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Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 3
buckbass
OP
Green Horn
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OP
Green Horn
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 3 |
I appreciate the input and opinions. I also wanted to add that I lease 2000 of 12000 acre lease,and these deer will definatly be exposed to other hunters during rut for sure.The buck doe ratio is out of wack. Typically you will see 4 to 1 ratio.The ranch has put does off limits for the last 2 years and I believe ratio will be more in the neighborhood of 3 to 1 which will mean these buck will move greater distances to take care of business.I believe this will cause them to be more exposed to other hunters.
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Re: NEW LEASE,AGE OPINIONS
[Re: buckbass]
#5876621
08/13/15 01:31 PM
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 5,067
titan2232
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 5,067 |
How'd you/ya'll come up with the ratios? Trying to decide which method to use on our new place to estimate ratios.
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Re: NEW LEASE,AGE OPINIONS
[Re: buckbass]
#5877399
08/13/15 10:25 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,103
tlk
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,103 |
I appreciate the input and opinions. I also wanted to add that I lease 2000 of 12000 acre lease,and these deer will definatly be exposed to other hunters during rut for sure.The buck doe ratio is out of wack. Typically you will see 4 to 1 ratio.The ranch has put does off limits for the last 2 years and I believe ratio will be more in the neighborhood of 3 to 1 which will mean these buck will move greater distances to take care of business.I believe this will cause them to be more exposed to other hunters. Is the whole 12,000 acres on management? That is plenty of acres to manage the herd as long as all the groups are on board
You can't fix stupid
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Re: NEW LEASE,AGE OPINIONS
[Re: buckbass]
#5877437
08/13/15 10:46 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,179
therancher
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,179 |
I appreciate the input and opinions. I also wanted to add that I lease 2000 of 12000 acre lease,and these deer will definatly be exposed to other hunters during rut for sure.The buck doe ratio is out of wack. Typically you will see 4 to 1 ratio.The ranch has put does off limits for the last 2 years and I believe ratio will be more in the neighborhood of 3 to 1 which will mean these buck will move greater distances to take care of business.I believe this will cause them to be more exposed to other hunters. Kill them in October. Period
Crotchety old bastidge
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Re: NEW LEASE,AGE OPINIONS
[Re: therancher]
#5877455
08/13/15 11:00 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,103
tlk
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,103 |
I appreciate the input and opinions. I also wanted to add that I lease 2000 of 12000 acre lease,and these deer will definatly be exposed to other hunters during rut for sure.The buck doe ratio is out of wack. Typically you will see 4 to 1 ratio.The ranch has put does off limits for the last 2 years and I believe ratio will be more in the neighborhood of 3 to 1 which will mean these buck will move greater distances to take care of business.I believe this will cause them to be more exposed to other hunters. Kill them in October. Period Not arguing - just asking. If those two bucks are 5 years old and can sire several other bucks this year that could reach or surpass their Daddy's size, and the property is large enough to feel fairly certain nobody else will shoot them, why would you not let them walk?
You can't fix stupid
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Re: NEW LEASE,AGE OPINIONS
[Re: tlk]
#5877551
08/14/15 12:00 AM
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Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 3
buckbass
OP
Green Horn
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OP
Green Horn
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 3 |
The ranch is divided into roughly 2000 acre pastures,and different groups which lease these pastures are supposed to abide by ranch management policy which unfortunately the only requirement on bucks is 4 years min {I would prefer they bump it to 6 years so when mistakes are made at least the trophy deer would make 5 years},with the exception of true culls generally determined and agreed upon by hunting group. With this being my first year on this pasture I pretty much do not know what to expect from the other groups as far as management.The good news is that these bucks characteristics have been seen on some younger bucks on camera.
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Re: NEW LEASE,AGE OPINIONS
[Re: buckbass]
#5878183
08/14/15 01:09 PM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,170
Jimbo
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,170 |
The ranch is divided into roughly 2000 acre pastures,and different groups which lease these pastures are supposed to abide by ranch management policy which unfortunately the only requirement on bucks is 4 years min {I would prefer they bump it to 6 years so when mistakes are made at least the trophy deer would make 5 years},with the exception of true culls generally determined and agreed upon by hunting group. With this being my first year on this pasture I pretty much do not know what to expect from the other groups as far as management.The good news is that these bucks characteristics have been seen on some younger bucks on camera. If the only requirement on bucks is 4 years minimum you can kiss those deer goodbye if they step out in front of the other hunters. Bumping it to 6 years will make no difference at all since most hunters have a hard time trying to judge the difference between a 3 1/2 and a 4 1/2 and that is when you usually see the biggest jump in antler growth.
Thursday at 12:45 PM #33 Once i learned that i didn't "NEED" to kill something, and that if i did kill something all the fun stopped and work began, i was a much better hunter.
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