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4 deer from Medina County test positive for CWD
#5869278
08/08/15 06:12 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 14,768
jeh7mmmag
OP
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SAN ANTONIO - Texas Mountain Ranch owner Robert Patterson says four deer from his facility in Medina County have tested positive for chronic wasting disease. Patterson has been working with the Texas Animal Health Commission and Texas Parks and Wildlife Department since one of his captive white-tailed deer tested positive for CWD in June. more: http://www.ksat.com/content/pns/ksat/new...ve-for-cwd.html
�Everybody needs beauty as well as bread, places to play in and pray in, where nature may heal and give strength to body and soul.� ~ John Muir
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Re: 4 deer from Medina County test positive for CWD
[Re: jeh7mmmag]
#5869303
08/08/15 06:44 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,483
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
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"He said 42 deer have been killed and tested since July 28, and three additional positives were the result. He added that all four deer confirmed to have the disease were males from the same father, which leads him to believe the problem is genetic." http://www.ksat.com/content/pns/ksat/new...ve-for-cwd.html
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Re: 4 deer from Medina County test positive for CWD
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#5869355
08/08/15 07:43 PM
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 29,038
Western
THF Celebrity
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"He said 42 deer have been killed and tested since July 28, and three additional positives were the result. He added that all four deer confirmed to have the disease were males from the same father, which leads him to believe the problem is genetic." http://www.ksat.com/content/pns/ksat/new...ve-for-cwd.html So, did it come from Elk, mule deer, or WT. If it is genetic?? Just say'n
If at first you dont succeed, then skydiving is not for you..
"Don't trust everything you read on the Internet"- Abraham Lincoln Dennis
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Re: 4 deer from Medina County test positive for CWD
[Re: jeh7mmmag]
#5869363
08/08/15 07:49 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461
rifleman
Sparkly Pants
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Probably mutation from line breeding if I were to guess...why you ain't s'posed to marry yer sister/first cousin.
Now the big question is: if a non-infected doe absorbs infected fetuses (which BW should greatly impact incubation period), will she get it? So there's a test, knock one up, let her progress, then starve her for a while (in the name of science).
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Re: 4 deer from Medina County test positive for CWD
[Re: rifleman]
#5869364
08/08/15 07:53 PM
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 29,038
Western
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Probably mutation from line breeding if I were to guess...why you ain't s'posed to marry yer sister/first cousin.
Now the big question is: if a non-infected doe absorbs infected fetuses (which BW should greatly impact incubation period), will she get it? So there's a test, knock one up, let her progress, then starve her for a while (in the name of science). CWD is spread over many states and many places, the animals could have not interbred, let alone an elk and any deer.
If at first you dont succeed, then skydiving is not for you..
"Don't trust everything you read on the Internet"- Abraham Lincoln Dennis
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Re: 4 deer from Medina County test positive for CWD
[Re: Western]
#5869379
08/08/15 08:13 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,179
therancher
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Patterson and others should stick to law, and other things they are familiar with. CWD is definitely not "genetic".
The fact that these deer are all bucks from the same AI sire means that somehow CWD was transmitted by semen. The doe that had twins who tested positive, evidently tested negative. Which tells anyone with a brain that it's not transmitted easily through mothers milk unless they didn't let them nurse, and it's also not easily transmitted through amnionic fluid. Both of those facts shout that this disease is not easily transmitted period.
We are learning tons from these deer. It would be so foolish to destroy them all. Regardless of what those with an agenda say.
Crotchety old bastidge
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Re: 4 deer from Medina County test positive for CWD
[Re: rifleman]
#5869381
08/08/15 08:13 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,483
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,483 |
Probably mutation from line breeding if I were to guess...why you ain't s'posed to marry yer sister/first cousin.
Now the big question is: if a non-infected doe absorbs infected fetuses (which BW should greatly impact incubation period), will she get it? So there's a test, knock one up, let her progress, then starve her for a while (in the name of science). So are you saying this case is a mutation or CWD came from a line breeding mutation?
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Re: 4 deer from Medina County test positive for CWD
[Re: therancher]
#5869389
08/08/15 08:24 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,483
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,483 |
Patterson and others should stick to law, and other things they are familiar with. CWD is definitely not "genetic".
The fact that these deer are all bucks from the same AI sire means that somehow CWD was transmitted by semen. The doe that had twins who tested positive, evidently tested negative. Which tells anyone with a brain that it's not transmitted easily through mothers milk unless they didn't let them nurse, and it's also not easily transmitted through amnionic fluid. Both of those facts shout that this disease is not easily transmitted period.
We are learning tons from these deer. It would be so foolish to destroy them all. Regardless of what those with an agenda say. While I agree with you a 100% on transmission rates.... I've thought it had genetic triggers for a very long time, and still do. Great thing about it having genetic triggers is it will go away in captive herds... Just like the sheep version. It will eventaully go away in wild herds also but will take a lot longer for Mother Nature to run her course. If it is proven genetics plays a role then it's been around for a lot longer then most realize and is truly can't be claimed as a breeder disease that so many want it to be
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Re: 4 deer from Medina County test positive for CWD
[Re: Western]
#5869392
08/08/15 08:25 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,483
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,483 |
Probably mutation from line breeding if I were to guess...why you ain't s'posed to marry yer sister/first cousin.
Now the big question is: if a non-infected doe absorbs infected fetuses (which BW should greatly impact incubation period), will she get it? So there's a test, knock one up, let her progress, then starve her for a while (in the name of science). CWD is spread over many states and many places, the animals could have not interbred, let alone an elk and any deer. Plus I didn't know we where doing massive line breeding of mulies in the 40's
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Re: 4 deer from Medina County test positive for CWD
[Re: jeh7mmmag]
#5869446
08/08/15 09:17 PM
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 8,384
nsmike
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While I don't think the cause of this CWD incident is genetic there could be a genetic susceptibility to it. Scrapie susceptibility in sheep, is largely breed dependent, with some breeds almost immune. We need to start doing genetic profiles of infected deer and associated uninfected deer to try to quantify susceptibility. Their is some evidence of a declining incidence of CWD in a couple of wild elk herds. Whether they are developing resistance is hard to quantify with all the possible factors but it has been suggested as a possibility. What applies to elk might not apply to deer, but if you could identify resistant lines, they would soon dominate the breeding industry.
for every stereotype there's a prototype don't be the prototype
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Re: 4 deer from Medina County test positive for CWD
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#5869561
08/08/15 10:49 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461
rifleman
Sparkly Pants
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Probably mutation from line breeding if I were to guess...why you ain't s'posed to marry yer sister/first cousin.
Now the big question is: if a non-infected doe absorbs infected fetuses (which BW should greatly impact incubation period), will she get it? So there's a test, knock one up, let her progress, then starve her for a while (in the name of science). So are you saying this case is a mutation or CWD came from a line breeding mutation? Not that it was caused by it, but you know the situation with immunity issues from pure breeds and line bred animals. Doesn't mean they cause it, just means they could be more susceptible to it. And if incubation rates depend on BW it would make sense for those carrying at time of conception will have it progress faster than those that are older. I just wonder how advanced it has to be to be detected.
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Re: 4 deer from Medina County test positive for CWD
[Re: rifleman]
#5869625
08/08/15 11:41 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,483
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
|
kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,483 |
Probably mutation from line breeding if I were to guess...why you ain't s'posed to marry yer sister/first cousin.
Now the big question is: if a non-infected doe absorbs infected fetuses (which BW should greatly impact incubation period), will she get it? So there's a test, knock one up, let her progress, then starve her for a while (in the name of science). So are you saying this case is a mutation or CWD came from a line breeding mutation? Not that it was caused by it, but you know the situation with immunity issues from pure breeds and line bred animals. Doesn't mean they cause it, just means they could be more susceptible to it. And if incubation rates depend on BW it would make sense for those carrying at time of conception will have it progress faster than those that are older. I just wonder how advanced it has to be to be detected. Plausabile since you can do the opposite.
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Re: 4 deer from Medina County test positive for CWD
[Re: jeh7mmmag]
#5869662
08/09/15 12:06 AM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461
rifleman
Sparkly Pants
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If that's the case though, there won't be a vaccine. There might be a suppressant that slows the rate it attacks healthy areas of the brain, but that already exists for humans and a cost analysis to administer it will say to just shoot the deer and all its kin.
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Re: 4 deer from Medina County test positive for CWD
[Re: rifleman]
#5869667
08/09/15 12:09 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,483
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,483 |
If that's the case though, there won't be a vaccine. There might be a suppressant that slows the rate it attacks healthy areas of the brain, but that already exists for humans and a cost analysis to administer it will say to just shoot the deer and all its kin. Maybe
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Re: 4 deer from Medina County test positive for CWD
[Re: jeh7mmmag]
#5869782
08/09/15 01:32 AM
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 8,384
nsmike
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Actually there has been research, in New York, that an inoculant could slow down and perhaps stop oral transmission of CWD. The researchers called it a vaccine, but it's a GMO bacteria, that destroys the misfolded proteins in the rumen. It wouldn't of helped in this case but it would act to buffer the spread.
for every stereotype there's a prototype don't be the prototype
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Re: 4 deer from Medina County test positive for CWD
[Re: nsmike]
#5870041
08/09/15 04:41 AM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,179
therancher
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A genetic predisposition to susceptibility is not the same as a disease being "genetic".
Crotchety old bastidge
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Re: 4 deer from Medina County test positive for CWD
[Re: therancher]
#5873411
08/11/15 03:33 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,605
fouzman
Veteran Tracker
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Patterson and others should stick to law, and other things they are familiar with. CWD is definitely not "genetic".
The fact that these deer are all bucks from the same AI sire means that somehow CWD was transmitted by semen. The doe that had twins who tested positive, evidently tested negative. Which tells anyone with a brain that it's not transmitted easily through mothers milk unless they didn't let them nurse, and it's also not easily transmitted through amnionic fluid. Both of those facts shout that this disease is not easily transmitted period.
We are learning tons from these deer. It would be so foolish to destroy them all. Regardless of what those with an agenda say. https://www.aphis.usda.gov/animal_health...ndards_2014.pdfThere have been several studies done on the subject and none have been able to link embryos or semen to CWD trasmission. Page 17, Section 2.6, paragraph 4. "At this time there is no scientific evidence that germplasm (embryos or semen) may transmit CWD." Of course, I don't think anyone knows how TSE originates or is spread for certain.
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Re: 4 deer from Medina County test positive for CWD
[Re: therancher]
#5873442
08/11/15 03:55 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,483
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
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A genetic predisposition to susceptibility is not the same as a disease being "genetic".
you are neither right or wrong in your assumptions on CWD. It could be a genetic disorder or it could be a condition that can be triggered by outside factors. Right now it's all a hypothesis unfortantely
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Re: 4 deer from Medina County test positive for CWD
[Re: jeh7mmmag]
#5873562
08/11/15 05:34 PM
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 8,384
nsmike
THF Trophy Hunter
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I'm no expert on prion diseases, but I've read a lot, it seems every time they figure something out, it leads to a bunch of new questions. While following up on those new questions something will pop up that makes them question what they know. It might be better to look at it like cancer with all the various subtypes with many different causal factors.
There are researchers that have postulated that, there may be subtypes of CWD some of which are spontaneous, which is where the genetic speculation comes from. So far things are not taking a normal course in the Medina County outbreak so there's going to be a lot of speculation. Let's wait and see what the scientists figure out.
for every stereotype there's a prototype don't be the prototype
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Re: 4 deer from Medina County test positive for CWD
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#5874589
08/12/15 03:34 AM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,179
therancher
THF Trophy Hunter
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A genetic predisposition to susceptibility is not the same as a disease being "genetic".
you are neither right or wrong in your assumptions on CWD. It could be a genetic disorder or it could be a condition that can be triggered by outside factors. Right now it's all a hypothesis unfortantely No. Infection with prions is not a disease caused by genes, it is caused by prions infecting and multiplying within the host. A genetic predisposition to be infected by prions is not the same thing.
Crotchety old bastidge
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Re: 4 deer from Medina County test positive for CWD
[Re: nsmike]
#5874595
08/12/15 03:37 AM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,179
therancher
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I'm no expert on prion diseases, but I've read a lot, it seems every time they figure something out, it leads to a bunch of new questions. While following up on those new questions something will pop up that makes them question what they know. It might be better to look at it like cancer with all the various subtypes with many different causal factors.
There are researchers that have postulated that, there may be subtypes of CWD some of which are spontaneous, which is where the genetic speculation comes from. So far things are not taking a normal course in the Medina County outbreak so there's going to be a lot of speculation. Let's wait and see what the scientists figure out. The "scientists" are very limited in what they can "figure out" now that they destroyed their research subjects.
Crotchety old bastidge
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Re: 4 deer from Medina County test positive for CWD
[Re: therancher]
#5874905
08/12/15 02:10 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,483
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,483 |
A genetic predisposition to susceptibility is not the same as a disease being "genetic".
you are neither right or wrong in your assumptions on CWD. It could be a genetic disorder or it could be a condition that can be triggered by outside factors. Right now it's all a hypothesis unfortantely No. Infection with prions is not a disease caused by genes, it is caused by prions infecting and multiplying within the host. A genetic predisposition to be infected by prions is not the same thing. You are assuming those prions can't come from a genetic component or a genetic variation. Experts have been going back and forth on Alzheimer's for years. I'm far from even being a prion novice much less expert... But it's clear the scientific community is at odds over CWD... The Recent outbreak is making more and more look out side their tunnel.
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Re: 4 deer from Medina County test positive for CWD
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#5874981
08/12/15 02:44 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,179
therancher
THF Trophy Hunter
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CWD to alzheimers is apples to aardvarks.
Alzheimers isn't an infection. What little is known about CWD includes the fact that it is an infection, it's not an easy to get infection, and it is host specific.
I learned last night that they have tried to implant the prions directly into brains and cause the disease in axis and fallow deer, and couldn't achieve a clinical infection. So, it seems that those two species of exotic cervids are clear of any suspicions.
Crotchety old bastidge
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Re: 4 deer from Medina County test positive for CWD
[Re: therancher]
#5875019
08/12/15 03:06 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,483
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,483 |
CWD to alzheimers is apples to aardvarks.
Alzheimers isn't an infection. What little is known about CWD includes the fact that it is an infection, it's not an easy to get infection, and it is host specific.
I learned last night that they have tried to implant the prions directly into brains and cause the disease in axis and fallow deer, and couldn't achieve a clinical infection. So, it seems that those two species of exotic cervids are clear of any suspicions.
You cant have two very similar prions that look very similar but one has the ability to be contiguous, the other internally grown? How do prions propagate like a virus? Like I said the scientific community is still wavering back and forth on Alzheimer's and prions...
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Re: 4 deer from Medina County test positive for CWD
[Re: jeh7mmmag]
#5875025
08/12/15 03:09 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,483
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,483 |
Good news is though after CWD kills all the whitetails, we will still have Axis and fallow
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