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4 deer from Medina County test positive for CWD #5869278 08/08/15 06:12 PM
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SAN ANTONIO - Texas Mountain Ranch owner Robert Patterson says four deer from his facility in Medina County have tested positive for chronic wasting disease.

Patterson has been working with the Texas Animal Health Commission and Texas Parks and Wildlife Department since one of his captive white-tailed deer tested positive for CWD in June.
more:

http://www.ksat.com/content/pns/ksat/new...ve-for-cwd.html


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Re: 4 deer from Medina County test positive for CWD [Re: jeh7mmmag] #5869303 08/08/15 06:44 PM
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"He said 42 deer have been killed and tested since July 28, and three additional positives were the result. He added that all four deer confirmed to have the disease were males from the same father, which leads him to believe the problem is genetic."


http://www.ksat.com/content/pns/ksat/new...ve-for-cwd.html


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Re: 4 deer from Medina County test positive for CWD [Re: BOBO the Clown] #5869355 08/08/15 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
"He said 42 deer have been killed and tested since July 28, and three additional positives were the result. He added that all four deer confirmed to have the disease were males from the same father, which leads him to believe the problem is genetic."


http://www.ksat.com/content/pns/ksat/new...ve-for-cwd.html


So, did it come from Elk, mule deer, or WT. If it is genetic?? Just say'n


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Re: 4 deer from Medina County test positive for CWD [Re: jeh7mmmag] #5869363 08/08/15 07:49 PM
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Probably mutation from line breeding if I were to guess...why you ain't s'posed to marry yer sister/first cousin.

Now the big question is: if a non-infected doe absorbs infected fetuses (which BW should greatly impact incubation period), will she get it? So there's a test, knock one up, let her progress, then starve her for a while (in the name of science).

Re: 4 deer from Medina County test positive for CWD [Re: rifleman] #5869364 08/08/15 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted By: rifleman
Probably mutation from line breeding if I were to guess...why you ain't s'posed to marry yer sister/first cousin.

Now the big question is: if a non-infected doe absorbs infected fetuses (which BW should greatly impact incubation period), will she get it? So there's a test, knock one up, let her progress, then starve her for a while (in the name of science).


CWD is spread over many states and many places, the animals could have not interbred, let alone an elk and any deer.


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Re: 4 deer from Medina County test positive for CWD [Re: Western] #5869379 08/08/15 08:13 PM
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Patterson and others should stick to law, and other things they are familiar with. CWD is definitely not "genetic".

The fact that these deer are all bucks from the same AI sire means that somehow CWD was transmitted by semen. The doe that had twins who tested positive, evidently tested negative. Which tells anyone with a brain that it's not transmitted easily through mothers milk unless they didn't let them nurse, and it's also not easily transmitted through amnionic fluid. Both of those facts shout that this disease is not easily transmitted period.

We are learning tons from these deer. It would be so foolish to destroy them all. Regardless of what those with an agenda say.


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Re: 4 deer from Medina County test positive for CWD [Re: rifleman] #5869381 08/08/15 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted By: rifleman
Probably mutation from line breeding if I were to guess...why you ain't s'posed to marry yer sister/first cousin.

Now the big question is: if a non-infected doe absorbs infected fetuses (which BW should greatly impact incubation period), will she get it? So there's a test, knock one up, let her progress, then starve her for a while (in the name of science).


So are you saying this case is a mutation or CWD came from a line breeding mutation?


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Re: 4 deer from Medina County test positive for CWD [Re: therancher] #5869389 08/08/15 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted By: therancher
Patterson and others should stick to law, and other things they are familiar with. CWD is definitely not "genetic".

The fact that these deer are all bucks from the same AI sire means that somehow CWD was transmitted by semen. The doe that had twins who tested positive, evidently tested negative. Which tells anyone with a brain that it's not transmitted easily through mothers milk unless they didn't let them nurse, and it's also not easily transmitted through amnionic fluid. Both of those facts shout that this disease is not easily transmitted period.

We are learning tons from these deer. It would be so foolish to destroy them all. Regardless of what those with an agenda say.


While I agree with you a 100% on transmission rates....

I've thought it had genetic triggers for a very long time, and still do. Great thing about it having genetic triggers is it will go away in captive herds... Just like the sheep version. It will eventaully go away in wild herds also but will take a lot longer for Mother Nature to run her course.

If it is proven genetics plays a role then it's been around for a lot longer then most realize and is truly can't be claimed as a breeder disease that so many want it to be


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Re: 4 deer from Medina County test positive for CWD [Re: Western] #5869392 08/08/15 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted By: Western
Originally Posted By: rifleman
Probably mutation from line breeding if I were to guess...why you ain't s'posed to marry yer sister/first cousin.

Now the big question is: if a non-infected doe absorbs infected fetuses (which BW should greatly impact incubation period), will she get it? So there's a test, knock one up, let her progress, then starve her for a while (in the name of science).


CWD is spread over many states and many places, the animals could have not interbred, let alone an elk and any deer.


Plus I didn't know we where doing massive line breeding of mulies in the 40's


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Re: 4 deer from Medina County test positive for CWD [Re: jeh7mmmag] #5869446 08/08/15 09:17 PM
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While I don't think the cause of this CWD incident is genetic there could be a genetic susceptibility to it. Scrapie susceptibility in sheep, is largely breed dependent, with some breeds almost immune. We need to start doing genetic profiles of infected deer and associated uninfected deer to try to quantify susceptibility. Their is some evidence of a declining incidence of CWD in a couple of wild elk herds. Whether they are developing resistance is hard to quantify with all the possible factors but it has been suggested as a possibility. What applies to elk might not apply to deer, but if you could identify resistant lines, they would soon dominate the breeding industry.


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Re: 4 deer from Medina County test positive for CWD [Re: BOBO the Clown] #5869561 08/08/15 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted By: rifleman
Probably mutation from line breeding if I were to guess...why you ain't s'posed to marry yer sister/first cousin.

Now the big question is: if a non-infected doe absorbs infected fetuses (which BW should greatly impact incubation period), will she get it? So there's a test, knock one up, let her progress, then starve her for a while (in the name of science).


So are you saying this case is a mutation or CWD came from a line breeding mutation?


Not that it was caused by it, but you know the situation with immunity issues from pure breeds and line bred animals. Doesn't mean they cause it, just means they could be more susceptible to it. And if incubation rates depend on BW it would make sense for those carrying at time of conception will have it progress faster than those that are older. I just wonder how advanced it has to be to be detected.

Re: 4 deer from Medina County test positive for CWD [Re: rifleman] #5869625 08/08/15 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted By: rifleman
Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted By: rifleman
Probably mutation from line breeding if I were to guess...why you ain't s'posed to marry yer sister/first cousin.

Now the big question is: if a non-infected doe absorbs infected fetuses (which BW should greatly impact incubation period), will she get it? So there's a test, knock one up, let her progress, then starve her for a while (in the name of science).


So are you saying this case is a mutation or CWD came from a line breeding mutation?


Not that it was caused by it, but you know the situation with immunity issues from pure breeds and line bred animals. Doesn't mean they cause it, just means they could be more susceptible to it. And if incubation rates depend on BW it would make sense for those carrying at time of conception will have it progress faster than those that are older. I just wonder how advanced it has to be to be detected.


Plausabile since you can do the opposite.


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Re: 4 deer from Medina County test positive for CWD [Re: jeh7mmmag] #5869662 08/09/15 12:06 AM
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If that's the case though, there won't be a vaccine. There might be a suppressant that slows the rate it attacks healthy areas of the brain, but that already exists for humans and a cost analysis to administer it will say to just shoot the deer and all its kin.

Re: 4 deer from Medina County test positive for CWD [Re: rifleman] #5869667 08/09/15 12:09 AM
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Originally Posted By: rifleman
If that's the case though, there won't be a vaccine. There might be a suppressant that slows the rate it attacks healthy areas of the brain, but that already exists for humans and a cost analysis to administer it will say to just shoot the deer and all its kin.


Maybe


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Re: 4 deer from Medina County test positive for CWD [Re: jeh7mmmag] #5869782 08/09/15 01:32 AM
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Actually there has been research, in New York, that an inoculant could slow down and perhaps stop oral transmission of CWD. The researchers called it a vaccine, but it's a GMO bacteria, that destroys the misfolded proteins in the rumen. It wouldn't of helped in this case but it would act to buffer the spread.


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Re: 4 deer from Medina County test positive for CWD [Re: nsmike] #5870041 08/09/15 04:41 AM
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A genetic predisposition to susceptibility is not the same as a disease being "genetic".


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Re: 4 deer from Medina County test positive for CWD [Re: therancher] #5873411 08/11/15 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted By: therancher
Patterson and others should stick to law, and other things they are familiar with. CWD is definitely not "genetic".

The fact that these deer are all bucks from the same AI sire means that somehow CWD was transmitted by semen. The doe that had twins who tested positive, evidently tested negative. Which tells anyone with a brain that it's not transmitted easily through mothers milk unless they didn't let them nurse, and it's also not easily transmitted through amnionic fluid. Both of those facts shout that this disease is not easily transmitted period.

We are learning tons from these deer. It would be so foolish to destroy them all. Regardless of what those with an agenda say.


https://www.aphis.usda.gov/animal_health...ndards_2014.pdf

There have been several studies done on the subject and none have been able to link embryos or semen to CWD trasmission.

Page 17, Section 2.6, paragraph 4.

"At this time there is no scientific evidence that germplasm (embryos or semen) may transmit CWD."

Of course, I don't think anyone knows how TSE originates or is spread for certain.

Re: 4 deer from Medina County test positive for CWD [Re: therancher] #5873442 08/11/15 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted By: therancher
A genetic predisposition to susceptibility is not the same as a disease being "genetic".



you are neither right or wrong in your assumptions on CWD. It could be a genetic disorder or it could be a condition that can be triggered by outside factors.

Right now it's all a hypothesis unfortantely


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Re: 4 deer from Medina County test positive for CWD [Re: jeh7mmmag] #5873562 08/11/15 05:34 PM
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I'm no expert on prion diseases, but I've read a lot, it seems every time they figure something out, it leads to a bunch of new questions. While following up on those new questions something will pop up that makes them question what they know. It might be better to look at it like cancer with all the various subtypes with many different causal factors.

There are researchers that have postulated that, there may be subtypes of CWD some of which are spontaneous, which is where the genetic speculation comes from. So far things are not taking a normal course in the Medina County outbreak so there's going to be a lot of speculation. Let's wait and see what the scientists figure out.


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Re: 4 deer from Medina County test positive for CWD [Re: BOBO the Clown] #5874589 08/12/15 03:34 AM
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Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted By: therancher
A genetic predisposition to susceptibility is not the same as a disease being "genetic".



you are neither right or wrong in your assumptions on CWD. It could be a genetic disorder or it could be a condition that can be triggered by outside factors.

Right now it's all a hypothesis unfortantely


No. Infection with prions is not a disease caused by genes, it is caused by prions infecting and multiplying within the host. A genetic predisposition to be infected by prions is not the same thing.


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Re: 4 deer from Medina County test positive for CWD [Re: nsmike] #5874595 08/12/15 03:37 AM
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Originally Posted By: nsmike
I'm no expert on prion diseases, but I've read a lot, it seems every time they figure something out, it leads to a bunch of new questions. While following up on those new questions something will pop up that makes them question what they know. It might be better to look at it like cancer with all the various subtypes with many different causal factors.

There are researchers that have postulated that, there may be subtypes of CWD some of which are spontaneous, which is where the genetic speculation comes from. So far things are not taking a normal course in the Medina County outbreak so there's going to be a lot of speculation. Let's wait and see what the scientists figure out.


The "scientists" are very limited in what they can "figure out" now that they destroyed their research subjects.


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Re: 4 deer from Medina County test positive for CWD [Re: therancher] #5874905 08/12/15 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted By: therancher
Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted By: therancher
A genetic predisposition to susceptibility is not the same as a disease being "genetic".



you are neither right or wrong in your assumptions on CWD. It could be a genetic disorder or it could be a condition that can be triggered by outside factors.

Right now it's all a hypothesis unfortantely


No. Infection with prions is not a disease caused by genes, it is caused by prions infecting and multiplying within the host. A genetic predisposition to be infected by prions is not the same thing.


You are assuming those prions can't come from a genetic component or a genetic variation.


Experts have been going back and forth on Alzheimer's for years.

I'm far from even being a prion novice much less expert... But it's clear the scientific community is at odds over CWD... The Recent outbreak is making more and more look out side their tunnel.




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Re: 4 deer from Medina County test positive for CWD [Re: BOBO the Clown] #5874981 08/12/15 02:44 PM
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CWD to alzheimers is apples to aardvarks.

Alzheimers isn't an infection. What little is known about CWD includes the fact that it is an infection, it's not an easy to get infection, and it is host specific.

I learned last night that they have tried to implant the prions directly into brains and cause the disease in axis and fallow deer, and couldn't achieve a clinical infection. So, it seems that those two species of exotic cervids are clear of any suspicions.


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Re: 4 deer from Medina County test positive for CWD [Re: therancher] #5875019 08/12/15 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted By: therancher
CWD to alzheimers is apples to aardvarks.

Alzheimers isn't an infection. What little is known about CWD includes the fact that it is an infection, it's not an easy to get infection, and it is host specific.

I learned last night that they have tried to implant the prions directly into brains and cause the disease in axis and fallow deer, and couldn't achieve a clinical infection. So, it seems that those two species of exotic cervids are clear of any suspicions.



You cant have two very similar prions that look very similar but one has the ability to be contiguous, the other internally grown?

How do prions propagate like a virus?

Like I said the scientific community is still wavering back and forth on Alzheimer's and prions...


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Re: 4 deer from Medina County test positive for CWD [Re: jeh7mmmag] #5875025 08/12/15 03:09 PM
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Good news is though after CWD kills all the whitetails, we will still have Axis and fallow cheers


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