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Re: 1-4 or 1-6x24 experience/opinion
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#5619980
02/25/15 07:18 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,210
J.G.
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Here we go again. Same chit, different day.
To kill anything with a rifle you have to shoot it. Otherwise carry a club. A bullet has a trajectory to 200 yards that must be compensated for. It doesn't matter if it is going towards hide or a piece of steel, or paper. Gravity is constant and unforgiving, bullets are affected by gravity and that must be allowed for. OP asked for options, one with a Mil reticle is an option. Then you come on here telling how he doesn't need it. Fine that's your opinion, not fact. Zero at 100 and don't allow for trajectory at 200 yards on a bobcat, and you will miss low with a long list of cartridges.
I agree glass quality is paramount, you can't hit what you can't see. And the scopes I mentioned have terrific glass.
Change with the times or get left behind.
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Re: 1-4 or 1-6x24 experience/opinion
[Re: JWalker08]
#5620042
02/25/15 07:42 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
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Nogalus Prairie
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Use holdover if you need it (which you won't very much at 200 and under). Not everyone needs a mark on an optic to know where to hold at reasonable ranges. Worrying about picking a reticle at 200 yards and under is an unnecessary (and time-wasting) complication.
"Change with the times or get left behind."
If that means having a bunch of useless stuff and leaving behind stuff you need (like binoculars on an elk hunt), I think I'll stay where I am. Some change is good. Change for the sake of change sucks.
(I really don't relish arguing with you-but you insist on making it personal by implying I am an idiot.)
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: 1-4 or 1-6x24 experience/opinion
[Re: JWalker08]
#5620050
02/25/15 07:44 PM
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Crews
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I feel like when you're getting a 1-4 or 1-6 optic for an AR and you're not taking long shots, there are certain things that need to be considered. For example, you mentioned that it would be used for CQB, so to me I'd make sure that your scope of choice works well when being used as a red dot. True 1x, illumination, reticle that is not too busy, forgiving eye relief, and not too horribly big and bulky. Making shots out to 200 yards on animal size targets is not too horribly complicated, and doesn't require all the goofy bdc reticles or dialing anything in. Any scope you buy is going to be capable of doing the "long range" stuff, so why focus on that part?
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Re: 1-4 or 1-6x24 experience/opinion
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#5620065
02/25/15 07:54 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,210
J.G.
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Never have thought you were an idiot and never meant to imply such.
However, your way AND my way is not the only way. If a guy wants to run a certain type of rifle, scope, binocular, range finder, it is our job to help him find what he is looking for, not pass judgement against what he picks.
Once you learn how to use tools you didn't know how to use before, they are no longer "useless" as you put it. I happen to use those tools more days each week than not? How much do you look through optics and how much do you shoot?
The eye doctor keeps me in 20/15 vision at my annual check up, and the only piece of Swaro glass is my range finder. And Swaro makes terrific glass. Telling me I need something else is again passing judgement. How can you know how well I can see? You can't.
I'm not gonna let another thread get locked down by us because you showed up and did nothing more than muddy the water, and did not lend any help at all. Done with the argument
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Re: 1-4 or 1-6x24 experience/opinion
[Re: J.G.]
#5620092
02/25/15 08:03 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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Here we go again. Same chit, different day.
To kill anything with a rifle you have to shoot it. Otherwise carry a club.
Change with the times or get left behind. The statements I reference. Unnecessary. At least two others on this thread have said the same things I have said. I'll step out and you can discuss it with them. That should be better all around.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: 1-4 or 1-6x24 experience/opinion
[Re: JWalker08]
#5620156
02/25/15 08:41 PM
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,182
Dave3575
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I'm in the market for a new scope. I'm looking for a 1-4 or 1-6x24 with an illuminated reticle which will be mounted on my AR-15. I will use it for both CQB and longer range situations (25-200 yards) and will mount 45 degree iron sights on my rifle as well. I'm drawn to the German # 4 lit reticle but open to all suggestions. I'm wanting to spend $500-600. Any experience and opinions in this area would be greatly appreciated. I try to follow the motto of buy once cry once but don't want to completely break the bank. Let me know what y'all think. Thanks in advance! this is a little more than you want to spend but I really like the Leupold Mark 4 CQ/T. You can get into it for around $800. I've had it for a while now and have zero complaints. http://www.leupold.com/tactical/scopes/mark-4-cqt-riflescopes/
Last edited by Dave3575; 02/25/15 08:42 PM.
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Re: 1-4 or 1-6x24 experience/opinion
[Re: JWalker08]
#5620192
02/25/15 08:58 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 35,144
Brother in-law
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The leupold vxr are some good ones to look at.
I would just go the 1" at 100 route
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Re: 1-4 or 1-6x24 experience/opinion
[Re: Dave3575]
#5620196
02/25/15 08:59 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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I'm in the market for a new scope. I'm looking for a 1-4 or 1-6x24 with an illuminated reticle which will be mounted on my AR-15. I will use it for both CQB and longer range situations (25-200 yards) and will mount 45 degree iron sights on my rifle as well. I'm drawn to the German # 4 lit reticle but open to all suggestions. I'm wanting to spend $500-600. Any experience and opinions in this area would be greatly appreciated. I try to follow the motto of buy once cry once but don't want to completely break the bank. Let me know what y'all think. Thanks in advance! this is a little more than you want to spend but I really like the Leupold Mark 4 CQ/T. You can get into it for around $800. I've had it for a while now and have zero complaints. http://www.leupold.com/tactical/scopes/mark-4-cqt-riflescopes/ Looks neat! Some will get the vapors at the thought of a dot covering 3-9 MOA though. Seems the folks at Leupold might be thinking quick target acquisition is more important than surgical precision adjustments at normal ranges. And on a new product too.
Last edited by Nogalus Prairie; 02/25/15 09:05 PM.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: 1-4 or 1-6x24 experience/opinion
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#5620205
02/25/15 09:03 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,210
J.G.
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Re: 1-4 or 1-6x24 experience/opinion
[Re: JWalker08]
#5620269
02/25/15 09:31 PM
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Crews
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Accupoint Out of your price range, but to me this is the epitome of good choices for 1-4 optics for hunting 200yards and under.
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Re: 1-4 or 1-6x24 experience/opinion
[Re: JWalker08]
#5620359
02/25/15 10:09 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 4,610
chalet
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I've got a couple Burris tac 30 1-4x scopes and have been real happy with them. Mainly used for pig hunting out to 200 yds. Little circle reticle on 2x is great when you drop the 1st one and the rest start hauling butt. They run right at $300.
Last edited by chalet; 02/25/15 10:10 PM.
Shoot. Eat. Repeat.
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Re: 1-4 or 1-6x24 experience/opinion
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#5620415
02/25/15 10:32 PM
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,182
Dave3575
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I'm in the market for a new scope. I'm looking for a 1-4 or 1-6x24 with an illuminated reticle which will be mounted on my AR-15. I will use it for both CQB and longer range situations (25-200 yards) and will mount 45 degree iron sights on my rifle as well. I'm drawn to the German # 4 lit reticle but open to all suggestions. I'm wanting to spend $500-600. Any experience and opinions in this area would be greatly appreciated. I try to follow the motto of buy once cry once but don't want to completely break the bank. Let me know what y'all think. Thanks in advance! this is a little more than you want to spend but I really like the Leupold Mark 4 CQ/T. You can get into it for around $800. I've had it for a while now and have zero complaints. http://www.leupold.com/tactical/scopes/mark-4-cqt-riflescopes/ Looks neat! Some will get the vapors at the thought of a dot covering 3-9 MOA though. Seems the folks at Leupold might be thinking quick target acquisition is more important than surgical precision adjustments at normal ranges. And on a new product too. it's written poorly - it's just like the pic, a circle vs. a dot. The dot is in the middle but the "circle" is the 3-9MOA it's referencing. very quick and functional without getting in the way.
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Re: 1-4 or 1-6x24 experience/opinion
[Re: JWalker08]
#5620457
02/25/15 10:50 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,407
WileyCoyote
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None on the small ZA5HD, but I bought a ZA5HD 2-10x50 30mm on a moving sale for a do all carry rifle in a T3 260 I'm setting up, and everyone I've shown it to loves it. Wish't I'd gotten in on the deal sooner and bought 'nuther 2-10 and a 3x15x50 for not much more Just Sayin Ron
It is TIME for Term Limits, cause Politicians are like childrens diapers and for the same reasons...Robin Williams "These are the times that try men's soul's"...Thomas Paine
"Those who fail to learn from History are doomed to repeat it" ....Santayana
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Re: 1-4 or 1-6x24 experience/opinion
[Re: JWalker08]
#5620725
02/26/15 01:01 AM
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Joined: Mar 2012
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Cleric
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Regarding the 200 yard argument...
He asked for my opinion so I gave it. I prefer mil reticle for a variety of reasons. 1) I can do wind adjustment 2) I can do elevation adjustments 3) I can range targets 4) if I ever go beyond 200 I am covered 5) I am calibrating my brain to do mil ffp on all scopes so I do not think between scopes
For the stated purpose iron sights could work realistically, red dot with or without magnifier or 1-4/6.
I Am about to buy either the 1-4 or 2.5-10 vortex for my ar
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Re: 1-4 or 1-6x24 experience/opinion
[Re: Dave3575]
#5620734
02/26/15 01:05 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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I'm in the market for a new scope. I'm looking for a 1-4 or 1-6x24 with an illuminated reticle which will be mounted on my AR-15. I will use it for both CQB and longer range situations (25-200 yards) and will mount 45 degree iron sights on my rifle as well. I'm drawn to the German # 4 lit reticle but open to all suggestions. I'm wanting to spend $500-600. Any experience and opinions in this area would be greatly appreciated. I try to follow the motto of buy once cry once but don't want to completely break the bank. Let me know what y'all think. Thanks in advance! this is a little more than you want to spend but I really like the Leupold Mark 4 CQ/T. You can get into it for around $800. I've had it for a while now and have zero complaints. http://www.leupold.com/tactical/scopes/mark-4-cqt-riflescopes/ Looks neat! Some will get the vapors at the thought of a dot covering 3-9 MOA though. Seems the folks at Leupold might be thinking quick target acquisition is more important than surgical precision adjustments at normal ranges. And on a new product too. it's written poorly - it's just like the pic, a circle vs. a dot. The dot is in the middle but the "circle" is the 3-9MOA it's referencing. very quick and functional without getting in the way. I don't think so-I think it means just what it says. I'm no expert though.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: 1-4 or 1-6x24 experience/opinion
[Re: JWalker08]
#5620750
02/26/15 01:09 AM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,440
TFF Caribou
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I think NP is right. It says at 100 yards the circle is 6' at 3x. My math isn't good but that's basically 72 moa right?
The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference. -George Washington
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Re: 1-4 or 1-6x24 experience/opinion
[Re: TFF Caribou]
#5620830
02/26/15 01:36 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,210
J.G.
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Subtension of the circle at 3X and 100 yards is 6 feet, approximately 72 MOA.
Subtension of the dot (in the center) at 3X is 3 MOA.
Subtension of the dot (in the center) at 1X is 9 MOA
This is due to the fact that it is a second focal plane optic. The values change as magnification changes. So on 3X the dot is covering 3” of an object at 100 yards. On 1X the dot is covering 9” of an object at 100 yards. If this were a first focal plane optic, and the dot was labeled as 3 MOA, then on any magnification the dot would be 3 MOA as the sight picture and the reticle shrink and grow together.
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Re: 1-4 or 1-6x24 experience/opinion
[Re: JWalker08]
#5621395
02/26/15 01:13 PM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,229
wp75169
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VX-R
Edit: exactly in your price range and in my opinion the best hunting scope in that price range. Also the most useable illuminated reticle on the market. Again my opinion but the nay sayers have probably never took one in the field.
Last edited by wp75169; 02/26/15 01:21 PM.
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Re: 1-4 or 1-6x24 experience/opinion
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#5621765
02/26/15 04:58 PM
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Dave3575
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Looks neat! Some will get the vapors at the thought of a dot covering 3-9 MOA though. Seems the folks at Leupold might be thinking quick target acquisition is more important than surgical precision adjustments at normal ranges. And on a new product too. it's written poorly - it's just like the pic, a circle vs. a dot. The dot is in the middle but the "circle" is the 3-9MOA it's referencing. very quick and functional without getting in the way. I don't think so-I think it means just what it says. I'm no expert though. I think you are right NP - I've ran this optic for years and would have bet against those numbers every day.... Here is a pic, 1x and 3x at a car at 126 yds away. at 1x the dot covers about 3/4th of the wheel (not tire) (couldn't get the camera and gun perfect, but you get the point) and at 3x it takes up about 1/4th of the wheel
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Re: 1-4 or 1-6x24 experience/opinion
[Re: JWalker08]
#5621827
02/26/15 05:32 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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Neat! Do they make that in an illuminated or other colored version?
I could foresee some issues with a black dot/black hog....
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: 1-4 or 1-6x24 experience/opinion
[Re: JWalker08]
#5621968
02/26/15 06:46 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 8,841
DocHorton
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I recently bought a couple Leupold VX-R's. I got one 2-7x and one 3-9x...I really like the reticle and illuminated dot. There are several choices for the reticles and Natchez had them on sale for like $399.
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Re: 1-4 or 1-6x24 experience/opinion
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#5622026
02/26/15 07:11 PM
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Joined: Feb 2012
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Dave3575
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Neat! Do they make that in an illuminated or other colored version?
I could foresee some issues with a black dot/black hog....
it has illumination and can be used with NV on the lowest setting
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Re: 1-4 or 1-6x24 experience/opinion
[Re: Dave3575]
#5622147
02/26/15 08:10 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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Neat! Do they make that in an illuminated or other colored version?
I could foresee some issues with a black dot/black hog....
it has illumination and can be used with NV on the lowest setting No problemo then. Cool.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: 1-4 or 1-6x24 experience/opinion
[Re: JWalker08]
#5622183
02/26/15 08:29 PM
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Joined: Jun 2011
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Buzzsaw
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Tired Head agin
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