Forums46
Topics539,027
Posts9,744,342
Members87,136
|
Most Online25,604 Feb 12th, 2024
|
|
|
AR-15 accuracy expectations
#5204609
07/17/14 01:54 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,391
scot
OP
THF Trophy Hunter
|
OP
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,391 |
I'm back to the every few month AR interest. For me accuracy trumps all, however cheapness/a deal is the only thing better than accuracy. Had quite a few different ar style rifles, last one was a "top of the line" palmetto build using on premium parts. However with a burris 1-4 100yard groups were unacceptable.
Don't want to go to a 24" bull barrel but is a $400+ up charge for a predator/3gun style rifle going to yield that much more than another palmetto build. Definitely going to go at least 3-9x on it. Coyote, pigs and steal will be the major usage of the rifle.
|
|
|
Re: AR-15 accuracy expectations
[Re: scot]
#5204681
07/17/14 02:21 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 3,069
MDMORROW
Veteran Tracker
|
Veteran Tracker
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 3,069 |
Good parts = a good gun. Accuracy is rarely cheap
|
|
|
Re: AR-15 accuracy expectations
[Re: scot]
#5204687
07/17/14 02:24 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 26,281
KRoyal
Texoma Legend
|
Texoma Legend
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 26,281 |
Palmetto and top of the line don't go in the same sentence. Get you a cheap stripped upper and lower they don't really matter. Get you a ultra match barrel from rainier and order your bolt at the same time and they will match the barrel with the bolt or atleast that's what I've heard you might want to ask them about it. Get a free float rail/tube. You should be fine. What kind of accuracy are you looking to get? This is a 5 shot group at 50 yards with a red dot sight using 62gr surplus ammo. I pushed the one on the left, I can't ever get a good 5 shot group without atleast messing up one of them lol. This was just with a 10.5" rainier select barrel which is bottom tier of the rainier barrel line. The ultra match should be a lot tighter.
|
|
|
Re: AR-15 accuracy expectations
[Re: scot]
#5204701
07/17/14 02:29 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,391
scot
OP
THF Trophy Hunter
|
OP
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,391 |
Would like consistent sub 1" at 100 but any better would be good.
I know RRA guarantees 1moa in many of their rifles, how much would it cost to assemble a setup as mentioned?
|
|
|
Re: AR-15 accuracy expectations
[Re: scot]
#5204712
07/17/14 02:33 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 26,281
KRoyal
Texoma Legend
|
Texoma Legend
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 26,281 |
You could probably build one with spikes lower and upper with rainier barrel/bolt carrier group throw in a cmc trigger and a CMMG keymod rail and probably come in around $700-$800.
|
|
|
Re: AR-15 accuracy expectations
[Re: scot]
#5204715
07/17/14 02:34 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 26,281
KRoyal
Texoma Legend
|
Texoma Legend
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 26,281 |
Also if I can get those groups with a 10.5" barrel with red dot you will be able to get better with 3-9x40 and 16" barrel.
|
|
|
Re: AR-15 accuracy expectations
[Re: scot]
#5204732
07/17/14 02:39 AM
|
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,735
BobG
Veteran Tracker
|
Veteran Tracker
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,735 |
Build it all yourself like KRoyal said. That's what I did with my 6.8. Started with stripped Seekins Precision Billet upper/lower and free float rail, wilson barrel and all other "premium" parts. Able to get 2" groups real easy using a vortex 1-4x at 100 yards
Gravley Custom Woodwork: Household Furniture, Custom Cabinetry and much more!
Hunters, Fisherman and other liars gather here.
|
|
|
Re: AR-15 accuracy expectations
[Re: scot]
#5204740
07/17/14 02:43 AM
|
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,195
Tactical Cowboy
THF Trophy Hunter
|
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,195 |
I have two DPMS uppers. Both are MOA or better.
The secret to a long life is to try not to shorten it.
|
|
|
Re: AR-15 accuracy expectations
[Re: scot]
#5204800
07/17/14 03:23 AM
|
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,654
MacDaddy21
Veteran Tracker
|
Veteran Tracker
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,654 |
I can easily shoot an inch at 100yds with an Aimpoint PRO on my DDM4v1 w/ Geissele SSA-E trigger. That trigger makes a world of difference.
|
|
|
Re: AR-15 accuracy expectations
[Re: scot]
#5204874
07/17/14 04:15 AM
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 988
cyphertext
Tracker
|
Tracker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 988 |
I'm back to the every few month AR interest. For me accuracy trumps all, however cheapness/a deal is the only thing better than accuracy. Had quite a few different ar style rifles, last one was a "top of the line" palmetto build using on premium parts. However with a burris 1-4 100yard groups were unacceptable.
Don't want to go to a 24" bull barrel but is a $400+ up charge for a predator/3gun style rifle going to yield that much more than another palmetto build. Definitely going to go at least 3-9x on it. Coyote, pigs and steal will be the major usage of the rifle. What kind of ammo were you using? How many shots did you put down the barrel before giving up on it? And I am assuming since it was PSA, it was a chrome lined, 1:7 twist mil-spec barrel?
|
|
|
Re: AR-15 accuracy expectations
[Re: scot]
#5204925
07/17/14 06:04 AM
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 35,173
Brother in-law
THF Celebrity
|
THF Celebrity
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 35,173 |
2" for an accurate gun is garbage especially premium parts
3/4" most the time with my ultra match shooting factory sp. I wouldn't want a rifle that shot over an 1".
|
|
|
Re: AR-15 accuracy expectations
[Re: scot]
#5205041
07/17/14 12:29 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 12,222
kry226
The General
|
The General
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 12,222 |
Depends on the barrel. Expecting sub-MOA from a chrome-lined barrel is not reasonable in my experience. Best I've done so far with an chrome-lined LMT with SSA-E trigger is about 1.5 with handloads (55 and 65 grs, loaded with Varget or CFE223).
High quality stainless barrel and the odds increase dramatically.
For shooting groups, I am beginning to see the error in my process. For a five-shot group, I'm going to try loading seven bullets. First = spoiler, last = throw away rounds and they will be shot at an adjacent target. I want the middle five to be loaded, fired, and ejected with same consistency. The manually loaded first round, as well as the locking of the bolt back on the last round are inconsistencies that are surely contributing factors to my fliers.
|
|
|
Re: AR-15 accuracy expectations
[Re: scot]
#5205123
07/17/14 01:31 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 26,281
KRoyal
Texoma Legend
|
Texoma Legend
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 26,281 |
|
|
|
Re: AR-15 accuracy expectations
[Re: scot]
#5205167
07/17/14 02:00 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,391
scot
OP
THF Trophy Hunter
|
OP
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,391 |
For that price I could buy a factory assembled RRA with an accuracy guarantee and not have to buy or pay some one to assemble.
|
|
|
Re: AR-15 accuracy expectations
[Re: scot]
#5205185
07/17/14 02:05 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 26,281
KRoyal
Texoma Legend
|
Texoma Legend
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 26,281 |
Well like I said accuracy cost money. You can't expect to throw together milspec bargain basement parts and expect to shoot sub MOA. I'd much rather build my gun, but the RRA will have a better resale as a factory gun and not a built gun.
|
|
|
Re: AR-15 accuracy expectations
[Re: scot]
#5205186
07/17/14 02:05 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,856
30378
Veteran Tracker
|
Veteran Tracker
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,856 |
Cheap and accuracy do not even belong in the same sentence!
NRA Benefactor Life Member - Free men should not be subjected to permits, paperwork and taxation in order to carry a firearm.
|
|
|
Re: AR-15 accuracy expectations
[Re: scot]
#5205198
07/17/14 02:08 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,270
J.G.
THF Celebrity
|
THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,270 |
Kroyal knows his stuff about ARs. If he would build one that's what I would do. My experince with bolt guns has shown me no rifle factory assembled will match a custom in accuracy or features I want. I have an AR 10 lower I will be building into a 6.5 Creedmoor. It had better be a sub MOA rifle or I will not be happy. Kroyal is who I will be seeking advice when it comes time to gather parts. I know what I want and I know what I want the rifle to do. The reason I purchased a lower instead of a complete rifle is so I can put every part I want on thw rifle and not have to resell parts I don't want at a loss.
No matter gas gun or bolt gun the quality of the barrel and the quality of the machining is what makes one outshoot another.
800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
|
|
|
Re: AR-15 accuracy expectations
[Re: J.G.]
#5205277
07/17/14 02:40 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 26,281
KRoyal
Texoma Legend
|
Texoma Legend
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 26,281 |
Kroyal knows his stuff about ARs. If he would build one that's what I would do. My experince with bolt guns has shown me no rifle factory assembled will match a custom in accuracy or features I want. I have an AR 10 lower I will be building into a 6.5 Creedmoor. It had better be a sub MOA rifle or I will not be happy. Kroyal is who I will be seeking advice when it comes time to gather parts. I know what I want and I know what I want the rifle to do. The reason I purchased a lower instead of a complete rifle is so I can put every part I want on thw rifle and not have to resell parts I don't want at a loss.
No matter gas gun or bolt gun the quality of the barrel and the quality of the machining is what makes one outshoot another. Means a lot coming from you Jason. Also something he mentioned is one of the biggest reasons I started building my own. I've been through countless AR15's over the years. When I first started out I bought a factory gun. I remember my first one was a Bushmaster A2 style with fixed carry handle think I paid something like $900 for it OTD. I hadn't done much research at the time and didn't really know what I was getting into. I just wanted the damn thing. I tried probably every scope/mount combo out there for a carry hand mount. Would never keep zero EVER! Finally broke down and bought a flat top upper and had an LEO from Howe put it together for me. This cost me around another $150 bucks for upper and labor. I had also changed out the hand guard for a UTG (airsoft) drop in quad rail. Seemed like that added and extra pound to the rifle and the damn thing shot everywhere. Don't know if it was the barrel or because that cheap quad rail was bolted to the barrel so it wasn't free float. Whatever the case it sucked and I was very unhappy with it LOL. I think by the time I was done I ended up having over $1500 in it, what today would probably sell for around $700 new. After all is said and done I had so many misc parts lying around collecting dust that no one would buy. After that fiasco I decided to have one built to my specs from Morgan at DSS. He built it to exactly what I wanted, but he included a castle nut wrench with the rifle and its been down hill ever since. I did a TON of research about everything possible regarding AR's and bought all the tools to start building my own. Several AR's later I think I'm finally at a happy place LOL.. Only other thing I might want to do is build a 300BLK upper to try it out.. CMMG MK3 CBR 308 factory gun, would have built a 308, but comparable parts would have been about 1K more to build so I just bought this one. Once I shoot the barrel out, I'll be getting me a Rainier UltraMatch to replace it with. My custom built 10.5" SBR in 5.56 with matching 22LR dedicated upper. I think now that the SBR form is back on the eForms site, I'm probably going to build another SBR lower so I can have a dedicated 22LR and dedicated 5.56 rifle without switching. I have a Spikes lower just sitting in my safe looking for something to do LOL.
|
|
|
Re: AR-15 accuracy expectations
[Re: scot]
#5205319
07/17/14 03:03 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,615
billybob
Extreme Tracker
|
Extreme Tracker
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,615 |
I've got a DPMS oracle AR10 with a 4-16x50 Nikon monarch and shoot sub MOA consistently with just about any factory round.
|
|
|
Re: AR-15 accuracy expectations
[Re: billybob]
#5205515
07/17/14 04:35 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 5,872
GLC
THF Trophy Hunter
|
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 5,872 |
I've got a DPMS oracle AR10 with a 4-16x50 Nikon monarch and shoot sub MOA consistently with just about any factory round. Me too except with a DPMS Recon 308, sub moa easily.
|
|
|
Re: AR-15 accuracy expectations
[Re: scot]
#5205626
07/17/14 05:25 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,759
ccoker
Extreme Tracker
|
Extreme Tracker
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,759 |
a "good" AR will run 13-1500 in parts alone (minus optics)
What makes the biggest impact on accuracy are 3 things: 1) Barrel 2) Trigger 3) Ammo
|
|
|
Re: AR-15 accuracy expectations
[Re: KRoyal]
#5207733
07/18/14 10:18 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,062
Toxarch
Veteran Tracker
|
Veteran Tracker
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,062 |
Palmetto and top of the line don't go in the same sentence. For the most part, I agree. But they do use Wilson Combat match grade and Wilson Combat hammer forged barrels in some of their uppers. Those are really good barrels.
It is far more important to be able to hit the target than it is to haggle over who makes a weapon or who pulls a trigger.
� Dwight D. Eisenhower
|
|
|
Re: AR-15 accuracy expectations
[Re: scot]
#5207760
07/18/14 10:35 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 26,281
KRoyal
Texoma Legend
|
Texoma Legend
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 26,281 |
Really last I've looked were FN machine gun barrels but never saw them with Wilson barrels.
|
|
|
Re: AR-15 accuracy expectations
[Re: scot]
#5208339
07/19/14 05:37 AM
|
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 541
Gwood88
Tracker
|
Tracker
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 541 |
Hold the phone. While I agree with most of what has been said about accuracy but I disagree about the PSA parts being poor quality. Their barrels, minus the stainless and PTAC, are sourced from FN which is no slouch. They are cold hammer forged, HPT, and MPI tested. Also, I have heard of PSA's stainless barrels shooting .75in groups at 100yrds regularly. I own 2 PSA rifles, one with irons, the other a 1-4x scope. They are very accurate and great qaulity.
If you are going for tiny groups at 100yrds they you really should upgrade to a higher power scope and get a better trigger.
Now the part that sucks to hear, what kind of shooter are you? Can you regularly shoot sub MOA?
Finally if you are unhappy with your PSA sell it and get an Rock River. In my opinion those are one of most out accurate out of the box AR's out there.
Texas A&M Class of 2011
|
|
|
Re: AR-15 accuracy expectations
[Re: scot]
#5208345
07/19/14 06:17 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 21,373
Bullfrog
THF Celebrity
|
THF Celebrity
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 21,373 |
Hey my cmmg mk3 seems to be accurate enough!
Man if I knew what Oxner knows I could throw away what I know
|
|
|
Moderated by bigbob_ftw, CCBIRDDOGMAN, Chickenman, Derek, DeRico, Duck_Hunter, hetman, jeh7mmmag, JustWingem, kmon11, kry226, kwrhuntinglab, Payne, pertnear, rifleman, sig226fan (Rguns.com), Superduty, TreeBass, txcornhusker
|