AR-15 accuracy expectations

I'm back to the every few month AR interest. For me accuracy trumps all, however cheapness/a deal is the only thing better than accuracy. Had quite a few different ar style rifles, last one was a "top of the line" palmetto build using on premium parts. However with a burris 1-4 100yard groups were unacceptable.


Don't want to go to a 24" bull barrel but is a $400+ up charge for a predator/3gun style rifle going to yield that much more than another palmetto build. Definitely going to go at least 3-9x on it. Coyote, pigs and steal will be the major usage of the rifle.

Good parts = a good gun. Accuracy is rarely cheap

Palmetto and top of the line don't go in the same sentence.

Get you a cheap stripped upper and lower they don't really matter. Get you a ultra match barrel from rainier and order your bolt at the same time and they will match the barrel with the bolt or atleast that's what I've heard you might want to ask them about it. Get a free float rail/tube. You should be fine.

What kind of accuracy are you looking to get?

This is a 5 shot group at 50 yards with a red dot sight using 62gr surplus ammo. I pushed the one on the left, I can't ever get a good 5 shot group without atleast messing up one of them lol. This was just with a 10.5" rainier select barrel which is bottom tier of the rainier barrel line. The ultra match should be a lot tighter.

Would like consistent sub 1" at 100 but any better would be good.

I know RRA guarantees 1moa in many of their rifles, how much would it cost to assemble a setup as mentioned?

You could probably build one with spikes lower and upper with rainier barrel/bolt carrier group throw in a cmc trigger and a CMMG keymod rail and probably come in around $700-$800.

Also if I can get those groups with a 10.5" barrel with red dot you will be able to get better with 3-9x40 and 16" barrel.

Build it all yourself like KRoyal said. That's what I did with my 6.8. Started with stripped Seekins Precision Billet upper/lower and free float rail, wilson barrel and all other "premium" parts. Able to get 2" groups real easy using a vortex 1-4x at 100 yards

I have two DPMS uppers. Both are MOA or better.

I can easily shoot an inch at 100yds with an Aimpoint PRO on my DDM4v1 w/ Geissele SSA-E trigger. That trigger makes a world of difference.

What kind of ammo were you using? How many shots did you put down the barrel before giving up on it? And I am assuming since it was PSA, it was a chrome lined, 1:7 twist mil-spec barrel?

2" for an accurate gun is garbage especially premium parts

3/4" most the time with my ultra match shooting factory sp. I wouldn't want a rifle that shot over an 1".

Depends on the barrel. Expecting sub-MOA from a chrome-lined barrel is not reasonable in my experience. Best I've done so far with an chrome-lined LMT with SSA-E trigger is about 1.5 with handloads (55 and 65 grs, loaded with Varget or CFE223).

High quality stainless barrel and the odds increase dramatically.

For shooting groups, I am beginning to see the error in my process. For a five-shot group, I'm going to try loading seven bullets. First = spoiler, last = throw away rounds and they will be shot at an adjacent target. I want the middle five to be loaded, fired, and ejected with same consistency. The manually loaded first round, as well as the locking of the bolt back on the last round are inconsistencies that are surely contributing factors to my fliers.

Here is a break down of the parts and cost.

Rainier Arms Select™ 5.56MM Fluted Barrel with Bolt Combo - $330

CMMG Inc Hand Guard Kit, AR15, RKM11 - $129

Spike's Tactical Upper Receiver - Forged M4 Flat Top (Multi Cal) SFT50M4 - $105

Spike's Tactical Lower BLEM (Multi) Forged PUNISHER Stripped AR Lower-Bullet Markings-STLS015 - $80

Kies Nickel Boron M16/AR15 Carrier-NO BOLT - $120

AR-15 6-position Stock Assembly with U.S. Made Mil-Spec Tube - Black - $50

JBO Low Profile Gas Block .750 Black - $24

Kies Midlength Black Melonite Gas Tubes - $15

JBO Lower Receiver Parts Kit WITHOUT Trigger Parts - $32

CMC Tactical FLAT 3.5lb Single Stage Drop-In Trigger Assembly - $168

Total comes out to $1053, maybe a little more expensive than I thought, but accuracy cost money. Minus the trigger it would be $885, but the trigger, bolt, and barrel are the 3 components that really matter.

For that price I could buy a factory assembled RRA with an accuracy guarantee and not have to buy or pay some one to assemble.

Well like I said accuracy cost money. You can't expect to throw together milspec bargain basement parts and expect to shoot sub MOA. I'd much rather build my gun, but the RRA will have a better resale as a factory gun and not a built gun.

Cheap and accuracy do not even belong in the same sentence!

Kroyal knows his stuff about ARs. If he would build one that's what I would do. My experince with bolt guns has shown me no rifle factory assembled will match a custom in accuracy or features I want. I have an AR 10 lower I will be building into a 6.5 Creedmoor. It had better be a sub MOA rifle or I will not be happy. Kroyal is who I will be seeking advice when it comes time to gather parts. I know what I want and I know what I want the rifle to do. The reason I purchased a lower instead of a complete rifle is so I can put every part I want on thw rifle and not have to resell parts I don't want at a loss.

No matter gas gun or bolt gun the quality of the barrel and the quality of the machining is what makes one outshoot another.

Means a lot coming from you Jason.

Also something he mentioned is one of the biggest reasons I started building my own. I've been through countless AR15's over the years. When I first started out I bought a factory gun. I remember my first one was a Bushmaster A2 style with fixed carry handle think I paid something like $900 for it OTD. I hadn't done much research at the time and didn't really know what I was getting into. I just wanted the damn thing. I tried probably every scope/mount combo out there for a carry hand mount. Would never keep zero EVER! Finally broke down and bought a flat top upper and had an LEO from Howe put it together for me. This cost me around another $150 bucks for upper and labor. I had also changed out the hand guard for a UTG (airsoft) drop in quad rail. Seemed like that added and extra pound to the rifle and the damn thing shot everywhere. Don't know if it was the barrel or because that cheap quad rail was bolted to the barrel so it wasn't free float. Whatever the case it sucked and I was very unhappy with it LOL. I think by the time I was done I ended up having over $1500 in it, what today would probably sell for around $700 new. After all is said and done I had so many misc parts lying around collecting dust that no one would buy.

After that fiasco I decided to have one built to my specs from Morgan at DSS. He built it to exactly what I wanted, but he included a castle nut wrench with the rifle and its been down hill ever since. I did a TON of research about everything possible regarding AR's and bought all the tools to start building my own. Several AR's later I think I'm finally at a happy place LOL.. Only other thing I might want to do is build a 300BLK upper to try it out..

CMMG MK3 CBR 308 factory gun, would have built a 308, but comparable parts would have been about 1K more to build so I just bought this one. Once I shoot the barrel out, I'll be getting me a Rainier UltraMatch to replace it with.

My custom built 10.5" SBR in 5.56 with matching 22LR dedicated upper.

I think now that the SBR form is back on the eForms site, I'm probably going to build another SBR lower so I can have a dedicated 22LR and dedicated 5.56 rifle without switching. I have a Spikes lower just sitting in my safe looking for something to do LOL.

I've got a DPMS oracle AR10 with a 4-16x50 Nikon monarch and shoot sub MOA consistently with just about any factory round.

Me too except with a DPMS Recon 308, sub moa easily.

a "good" AR will run 13-1500 in parts alone (minus optics)

What makes the biggest impact on accuracy are 3 things:
1) Barrel
2) Trigger
3) Ammo

For the most part, I agree. But they do use Wilson Combat match grade and Wilson Combat hammer forged barrels in some of their uppers. Those are really good barrels.

Really last I've looked were FN machine gun barrels but never saw them with Wilson barrels.

Hold the phone. While I agree with most of what has been said about accuracy but I disagree about the PSA parts being poor quality. Their barrels, minus the stainless and PTAC, are sourced from FN which is no slouch. They are cold hammer forged, HPT, and MPI tested. Also, I have heard of PSA's stainless barrels shooting .75in groups at 100yrds regularly. I own 2 PSA rifles, one with irons, the other a 1-4x scope. They are very accurate and great qaulity.

If you are going for tiny groups at 100yrds they you really should upgrade to a higher power scope and get a better trigger.

Now the part that sucks to hear, what kind of shooter are you? Can you regularly shoot sub MOA?

Finally if you are unhappy with your PSA sell it and get an Rock River. In my opinion those are one of most out accurate out of the box AR's out there.

Hey my cmmg mk3 seems to be accurate enough!

Whenever speaking of accuracy the barrel and is probably the most important. If you want accuracy why not start with quality parts. There is a reason why most benchrest shooters use Bartlein, Krieger, etc... barrels. I am not knocking the other suppliers but when speaking of accuracy this is what has to be done. My "high end" ar has as Krieger on it and shoots fantastic. I'm sure everyone is about to say how their $500 Ar will shoot "(insert really small inch amount here) all day long"!!!!

I'd build one too . Just put together one for my dad not too long ago for a little over a grand and he absolutely loves it. If u buy a factory RRA u will just end up changing half the stuff to make it how u want it . I'd build over buying complete any day. I've built around 20 or more mostly personal builds and all have shot pretty darn well. Just get a good barrel .... Even the cheaper ARP barrels are awesome (best barrel for the price)
And I'm sure if u need help slapping it together there are a few people willing to help around here

Today I was more accurate at 400 yards with my 13.7" .223 wylde than I was my new(not much trigger time yet) .243 with Bartlein barrel and zeiss glass . I wack turtles at 350-400 yards with my .223 on a regular !

This is no master achievement but we shot AR's yesterday from the 100 yard mark.

I run a Stag with a 3x Nikon p223. With what I've got into the gun I shot two 5 shot groups that weren't an inch but were under 1.5 easy. That's no joke.

No pics but I had 4 witnesses. If it can do that with it, I'm fine.

This!

I love my PSA's, I can generally shoot about 1.5" 5 shot groups at 100yrds with my PSA with a 1-4x scope and milspec trigger. I am fairly certain that with better glass and trigger I could tighten that up to about 1".

BUT my 20in ARP, free floated, 4-14x FFP Primary Arms scope, and SSA trigger is a sub MOA shooter. My best group was a .6" 5 shot group with a buddy's hand loads. Generally, as a shooter I average about 1 MOA but that day I was on fire. Best barrel for the money in my opinion.