Out of the two, which would you say is the most important? I know you need both but if you have to choose, which would you prefer. High fence ranches excluded, input appreciated, but I wanna know for low fence only. Which is the most important factor for producing a big buck

Nutrition

nutrition. good genes wont reach their potential without good nutrition, and genes can improve over time.

I think genes will always come first. A buck with good genes to produce a bigger rack with the same nutrition as a buck with bad genes for rack development will always be better. And genes do not change over time...you keep what you have from birth to death. The only thing that happens to genes over time is deterioration hence the reason that all living things age over time.

yes, genes stay the same from birth to death for ONE specific person, but they will generally increase, or get better, over time and through offspring. i am not talking about ONE specific buck and its lifetime, but the herd in general, from year to year.

just like the way humans have gotten taller and bigger over time with better/more food and supplementation, same with deer.

i think a question to ask is are you talking short term or long term?

short term, like 1 buck from birth to death, yeah give me genetics. but long term, over a period of 10+ years or so, i think nutrition will win out.

I agree with the last two, genes for me. You can have all the good groceries in the world and some bucks wont make much more than a basket 8, and you can feed a deer rocks ceadar trees and a couple acorns with good genetics that will make something. If the nutrition is poor enough that it wont support the deer then I guess I would choose nutriton over genetics, but in most cases I would go with the genes.

matt

agreed I misunderstood what you were saying. In order to improve genetics and select for the best genes through succesive generations you also need to cull your does. The only way the best genes are going to be transferred is for the bucks to have to actually compete for a mate. Culling bucks in lf is pointless IMO until you cull your does and even then the only reason to cull bucks on lf is if you had a huge ranch. I think genes and ratio is more important than nutrition as long as they get enough to stay alive.

Genetics is always first.

To me people getting bigger is an expression of better nutirition and improved healthcare and living conditions, not improving genetics.

Tell me where genetics is listed on a feed label?

yep

yep if you look at it human genes really are probably worse than they were 100 years ago overall because 100 years ago, if you were not fit to survive you died. Now people can live long lives even with genetic disorders due to healthcare and living conditions.

let me know when you find a store that has it in stock. My HC lease could sure use it, and Odiorne quit carrying it the year we got on

Age is the limiting factor in most areas before genetics or nutrition.

On a low fence your not gona be able to do much about genetics...nutriton is important when there is not enough natural food source to support your herd or a bad year comes along like the last few...but IMO age is more important than both in a normal situation

everytime! you type to fast

When it comes to deer..and antlers

Age and nutrition.

Genetics don't mean poop if the deer can't express them.

You can't compare human height to deer antlers.

A women expresses her height a doe doesn't express her antlers

You can not starve genetics out of a herd but you can starve the genetics to death. Genetics will always come back when nutrition comes back. Dead deer don't recover no matter how much feed you give them. Genetics are very good in just about every area of the state.

so a healthy, well fed doe would have no more say in the health of her buck offspring and his antlers than a ran down malnourished one? you cant believe that.

i agree, but u can suppress genetics with bad nutrition, just like i think u can improve a herds genetics with good nutrition. and when i say "improve genetics," of course i am not a doctor and dont know if is atually possible to change the chemical makeup of ones genes, i am referring to changing/improving what we all look for here, antlers. if that is not true then why do we keep filling protein feeders and planting nutritious food plots year after year?

I believe a healthy doe can raise a healthier fawn that can grow into a healthier buck that can eat more higher quality feed to express his genetics better.

The OP asked to choose between the TWO, genetics comes first. This has been proven over & over again. All of the protein feed etc in the world won't turn a genetically inferior buck into a trophy.

Improved breeding improves genetics, good nutritions amplifies it or lack of it depresses it. You can feed all the feed you want to a buck that is destined to be a 5 yr old 6 point and that is all he will be due to genetics. The only that will improve the herd he is from is lead or copper in great amounts.

then why do you, we, us, keep spending money on protein and food plots? arent we hoping that we can put those extra few inches on that buck we let walk so he will be a little bigger next year?