In the Deer Hunting forum I got into a debate about whether or not one should use a tag with a wounded Deer. How about a poll to check our collective knowledge on a similar question related to our upcoming Dove season. I have the answer and will present it later.

Question.
Your Dove hunting. You shoot a Dove and see it fall as dead into tall Grass in the distance. You make a reasonable effort to search for it, but are unable to find it. So, you consider the bird as lost and continue hunting. By Texas Parks and Wildlife regulation; do you include this lost bird as part of your Daily Bag Limit of Dove?

Lost Dove single choice
	Yes, I must include the Lost Dove as part of my Day's Bag Limit
	No, I am not required to include the Lost Dove as part of my Bag Limit, so I do not.
	Though I am not required to do so, as an ethical hunter I include all lost birds as part of my Bag Limit.
Votes accepted starting: 07/08/09 05:50 PM You must vote before you can view the results of this poll.

John, look at the Federal Regulations concerning Waterfowl. Per their definition.......
All downed birds MUST be counted as part of your bag limit. That means in your possession or in the water or up in a tree. Don't matter per the fed's. State boys see it different but that is for another discussion!!!
As for Dove's......
They do not follow the same exact rule as waterfowl even though they are consider Migratory Game Birds.

I do not consider it part of my bag. I am allowed to kill a bag limit of birds each day of the season. As I do not hunt each day of the season, my total harvest is well below what I would be otherwise allowed to kill. The few birds that I might lose in a year have no impact on numbers.

I do make every effort to find all the birds that I shoot. I hunt with well trained dogs to further that effort. Duck and dove total, I might have lost 5 birds last year but I don't think it was even that many.

TH,
The question is in relation to TPWD regs. As we know, State and Federal regs and enforcement don't always click. Take possession limits. The feds consider birds in your freezer at home as part of your possession limit. But like you say, for another discussion. For the current poll, this is for State regulation. The same answer will apply to Quail for example.

I included the third response so the results are not skewed by those that count birds for ethical reasons but don't think it is required by regulation.

Truth of the matter is most of us will only get a limit or two of dove a year before the hunting gets a little harder and we are lucky to scratch a half a limit.

Last year I didnt hit it all that hard but I think I did just that...got a limit opening day and then the next...after that I wasnt so mad at the dove and was really just socializing more so than hunting. I love at dove hunting more like golf.

Oh, if you know the answer, don't post up text of regulation and explanations just yet. This is to be ones honest thought as if they were hunting today. Dove are flying like crazy, your shooting birds, and your taking home a limit. All you have to go by is your personal knowledge or your Outdoor Annual if you carry one.

I try my best to find every dove that I shoot, I know we all do. I lose 'em sometimes just like everyone else.

My dog is old and we don't take him dove hunting anymore. The key is to mark the bird and not take your eyes off the spot. That all goes out the window when you pop a double or triple, though.

To answer John's question, no I don't count a lost bird.

Additionally, what defines lost? You shoot ducks sometimes that are obviously wounded but keep flying, are you counting that in your bag limit? No doubt that bird will die.

I'm ready for September so we can quit talking about what we would do and do it, dadgummit!

My thought is that since you have "taken" the bird, that you would have to count it in your bag limit.

MN, Read the question. Bird that fell dead in tall grass.
You know the bird is dead in the presented situation and thus why you made an effort to look for it.

OK, dead in the tall grass. That's pretty close to a Capstick book I read, ha.

Unless the hunter reaches his limit, that lost bird is a non-issue. I would have to say that most guys would shoot another one to finish their limit.

What's the rule on this issue here in Texas?

Ethics??? What are those? To each their own on if they would count it, but I don't think it actually goes towards your limit if you give a good search for it and can't find it. Now... some people may say they will put it towards their limit... and that is fine... but I don't think you have to.

I wouldn't count it. I count what goes in the skillet, or what I have to show the game warden at a limit check.

I use a lab for my dove hunts, so my lost bird count is usually 1 or less on each hunt. He doesn't get them all, but between the two of us, we can usually find it.

? for you Sniper....

In your question.... option 3 you wrote... "Though I am not required to do so, as an ethical hunter I include all lost birds as part of my Bag Limit."

Are you saying a person is unethical if they choose not to count it on their bag total? If someone was following the law I would think they were being ethical???

No, I just know that there are some people that will count all lost birds in their bag limit on personal moral grounds. I did not want those persons to skew the results by checking the first option, yet at the same time they don't think it is required by regulation. And I see at least a couple did choose that option.

I did not put a closing date/time on the poll, but at the moment I see well over 50% go for the second option. Kind of what I expected. I will post the response from TPWD.
I sent a two part question to TPWD. The first in relation to wounded and lost deer. The second I used the question I presented here as an example. I got very different answers to both questions. The deer answer is in the deer hunting forum. Here is the dove answer.

Email response from Scott Vaca
Assistant Chief of Wildlife Enforcement

Should a hunter by law include the lost dove in his day’s bag limit? – A hunter is required to make a reasonable effort to retrieve the bird and include it in the hunter’s bag. If a hunter fails to look for a bird because if fell in tall weeds or other dense vegetation, that would be a violation. If a bird is definitely shot dead and the hunter can’t find it, that bird should be counted against the daily bag limit.



The text you reference from the Outdoor Annual is just a summary of the law. The following is the actual full text of this law:



Parks & Wildlife Code, Section 62.011. RETRIEVAL AND WASTE OF GAME.

(a) Except as provided by Subsection (c), it is an offense if a person while hunting kills or wounds a game bird or game animal and intentionally or knowingly fails to make a reasonable effort to retrieve the animal or bird and include it in the person's daily or seasonal bag limit.

(b) Except as provided by Subsection (c), it is an offense if a person intentionally takes a game bird, game animal, or a fish and intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly, or with criminal negligence, fails to keep the edible portions of the bird, animal, or fish in an edible condition.

(c) It is an offense if a person while hunting kills or wounds a desert bighorn sheep, pronghorn antelope, mule deer, or white-tailed deer and intentionally or knowingly fails to make a reasonable effort to retrieve the animal or intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly or with criminal negligence fails to keep the edible parts of the animal in an edible condition.

haha.... yeah... a little... wanted to see how it was different from the deer.

I still don't see any difference in what they said in the e-mail from how it reads in the book.

I understand if you don't even attempt to go look for it b/c the brush is too high or something, but what if you do go look for it? The way it reads... if you gave a reasonable search... and could not find the bird... then you don't have to include it.

The question I presented to TPWD read exactly or almost exactly like the poll. If one shoots a Dove that falls into tall grass. The hunter makes a reasonable effort to look for the Dove and is still unable to find it.....

His answer used the words "and the hunter can’t find it".

"If a bird is definitely shot dead and the hunter can’t find it, that bird should be counted against the daily bag limit"

So if I shoot a deer right in the wheelhouse and it's in some real thick grass.... I go look for it all day and can't find it... is this supposed to be different than if it were a dove?

John,



The text you reference from the Outdoor Annual is just a summary of the law. The following is the actual full text of this law:



Parks & Wildlife Code, Section 62.011. RETRIEVAL AND WASTE OF GAME.

(a) Except as provided by Subsection (c), it is an offense if a person while hunting kills or wounds a game bird or game animal and intentionally or knowingly fails to make a reasonable effort to retrieve the animal or bird and include it in the person's daily or seasonal bag limit.

(b) Except as provided by Subsection (c), it is an offense if a person intentionally takes a game bird, game animal, or a fish and intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly, or with criminal negligence, fails to keep the edible portions of the bird, animal, or fish in an edible condition.

(c) It is an offense if a person while hunting kills or wounds a desert bighorn sheep, pronghorn antelope, mule deer, or white-tailed deer and intentionally or knowingly fails to make a reasonable effort to retrieve the animal or intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly or with criminal negligence fails to keep the edible parts of the animal in an edible condition.





I regards to your 2 questions:



1) Should a hunter by law include the lost dove in his day’s bag limit? – A hunter is required to make a reasonable effort to retrieve the bird and include it in the hunter’s bag. If a hunter fails to look for a bird because if fell in tall weeds or other dense vegetation, that would be a violation. If a bird is definitely shot dead and the hunter can’t find it, that bird should be counted against the daily bag limit.



2) Should a hunter include the wounded deer on the back of his license’s harvest log and remove the tag? – Once again, the hunter is required to make a reasonable effort to retrieve the wounded deer. If the deer cannot be found, and subsequently legally tagged, then there is no need to include the deer on the harvest log and execute a tag. However, if a search spreads over the course of a day or two and the deer is found, but the meat is questionable, or spoiled, that deer should still be tagged and entered on the harvest log. It is not required to be eaten if it is decayed.



The common thread is that there must be a reasonable effort made to retrieve any game bird or game animal killed or wounded while hunting. The waste of game, aka wanton waste, applies once a person has possession of the resource.



Scott Vaca
Assistant Chief of Wildlife Enforcement

Dat's crazy talk Sniper....

Me... I usually show up on openin' morning with 5... maybe 6 boxes of shells... when I'm done blastin' all dem doves into the next county... I get to pickin' em up.... Once I grabs da first 15... well... those dat still have a breast on em that is... I call it a day and head for da truck.

Note Deer falls under a different subsection. Subsection C combines the wording of Subsection A and B, but without "include it in the person's daily or seasonal bag limit"