This is the 5th year of terrible duck hunting in North Texas. I started seeing it happen when the peanut farms around Whitney sold to the gravel pits. Now that they have turned all the rice fields into parking lots around the Katy area there is no reason for the ducks to come down the middle of Texas in November. Its the same reason the snow geese stopped coming in November. To make matters worse I heard that one of the states above us (don't remember which one) changed their "baiting laws" to allow more agricultural grain to be left in the fields to be hunted over. The ducks that do come down the center of Texas are coming after the season is over because they have plenty to eat north of us. By the time those fields are either depleted or the grain has rotted our season is over. About a week after our season ended I saw the ponds around me fill up with ducks. Same thing with the lake. I am a full time Striper guide, so I am on the lake several mornings each week throughout the winter. During the season I saw very few ducks flying over. A week after the season ended I saw "V" after "V" flying over the lake.

TPWD needs to push duck season back one month. Instead of starting it in November, duck season needs to start in December and run through the end of February. If they don't move it back I don't see the point in duck hunting in Texas any more. I shot 3 ducks this season. Three ducks is not worth the effort or the expense to me. I would rather save the money and use it to take 1 good duck hunting trip to Kansas or Arkansas.

The federal guidelines that states must follow dtate all duck seasons must end Jan 31st. You see more ducks after the season, because they are no longer being hunted and come out of the refuges and non hunted places they have found refuge in. By the end of January, for the most part, ducks are already heading north again. We always get a shot of early bluewings headed up from Mexico right at the end of Jan. The problem is fewer ducks and too much pressed.
Also, have friends that hunt OK, arkyland and KS. All of them were hurting like we were for ducks.

If Texas can adjust their own conservation season for geese, then I'm sure they could find a work around for duck season. If they don't then they are going to see revenue taper off from duck hunters, because I know I'm not the only hunter ready to take my money to other states. I guide fishing trips on a lake with a huge game reserve at one end. I would have seen the birds if they were flying around the reserve, and they were not here. The ducks did not show up until about a week after the season was over: and they came in by the thousands. The ducks are migrating to north Texas later than they used to. I don't know if it is because of food or climate change, but the fact is they are migrating later. If TPWD wants to keep hunter's money in Texas they need to figure out a way to change the hunting season dates like the ducks changed their migration habits.

Can't be done..."Migratory Bird Conventions" (Treaties) in place, under USFWS directions...here is the most salient passage:

Federal Framework Regulations

Framework regulations are the main foundation of annual regulations and consist of the boundary dates for opening and closing seasons, season length, daily bag and possession limits, and shooting hours.

In order to ensure these regulations are based on the best available and mostly timely scientific information, we use data from annual monitoring programs to determine the birds’ status, and ultimately if hunting can be sustained. Specifically, we use the results of annual survey and monitoring programs including bird banding, waterfowl breeding population and habitat surveys, and harvest surveys, as the basis for establishing the annual federal frameworks.

This strategy was developed cooperatively with the states in each Flyway and across all the Flyways (Atlantic, Mississippi, Central and Pacific) to manage our shared migratory bird resources. These frameworks often differ by Flyway depending on population status, number of hunters, projected harvest numbers, etc. Our objective is essentially to provide maximum hunting opportunity over the long-term while sustaining waterfowl populations into the future.

Season Lengths

The earliest (September 1) and latest (March 10) dates allowed for hunting are set by the Migratory Bird Conventions referenced at the beginning of this story. Framework dates, which are the annual dates selected by the Service for hunting, vary for different groups of migratory game birds. Annual framework dates for most regular waterfowl seasons are from the end of September to the end of January for ducks, and mid-February for geese.

Under the MBTA, season lengths may not exceed 107 days. The MBTA and related implementing regulations restrict when migratory bird hunting can occur during the year. The opening framework dates for the regular duck season cannot be earlier than the Saturday closest to September 24th and the closing date cannot be after January 31st. Why? Because hunting ducks after January 31st could have impacts on hen behavior and harvest in February is likely to have negative impacts on breeding duck population sizes in the spring. That could impact subsequent hunting seasons and reduce the overall opportunity for all hunters.

Season lengths for ducks vary by Flyway, with seasons being the longest in the Pacific Flyway and the shortest in the Atlantic and Mississippi Flyways, reflecting differences in the abundance of birds, number of hunters, migration patterns, and other factors. Once the federal frameworks are set, then the states have the option of selecting their seasons as long as they are within the federal frameworks (i.e., no more than 60 days in the Mississippi Flyway and 74 days in the Central Flyway when liberal seasons are allowed).

Most states select their hunting season to maximize their duck harvest within these frameworks. States always have the right to be more restrictive than the established federal frameworks.

Season lengths, bag limits, and to a lesser extent framework dates are selected and changed based on changes in bird abundance and habitat conditions.


...this is why the season can't be pushed back by a month or more...sorry...

Can't be done and shouldn't be done. Really the season should end early to mid January. Ducks are already pairing up and starting the breeding courtship in mid tonlat January. Shooting those birds, even just the drakes, disrupts the breeding cycle. Seasons going into February would have negative effects on an already struggling population.

this is exactly right!

that said, there is a serious issue that I don't think the authorities are paying attention to and I'm not sure we all really understand. Hate to say it, but if I were in charge, I would reduce bag limit to 4 and season length to 45 days for 3 years and see what happens to populations....I believe we truly have an issue with bird populations...

5th year in a row? This year they got here late because of the lack cold weather but the previous 4 years were great where I hunt.

Its been bad for some time now. IMO its a combination of things.

First, I think the duck surveys are not right. We have way less birds than being reported.
Second, the amount of feed just below the freeze line that are holding birds.
Third, when it is cold water is kept open with ice eaters.

The warm winter we had did contribute but its been getting worse year over year.

Again, IMO, we need a lot of things to change.

Rethink how the bird surveys are done.
Pay Farmers up north to not disturbe area that are key to breeding.
A big effort in predator control
Stop allowing the practice of flooding a corn field to hunt in it.
Ban ice eaters
A shorter season (30 to 40 days) with a 3 duck bag limit.

These are rough numbers, so don’t get too statistical. Duck numbers are probably half of what they were, which means available food sources to the north of us will last twice as long. If it doesn’t freeze up and get 2ft of snow dumped on it, which doesn’t happen anymore.

Oldest. Dumbest talking point on the WWW.

But just call tpw and tell em ole son

This will never happen, but we should start a petition to move youth weekend to the weekend after the season not before

Oklahoma is weekend after

Does DU have any say on this topic? like a tidal wave, they all start out small, and eventually become something
large and massive! it has to start somewhere! here in central texas im seeing lots of my 2 ponds now, seldom they
would lite here.....

It’s not the job of TPWD or USFWS to give us the best hunting seasons.

It should be backed by biologists that do what’s best for the waterfowl health and population as a whole.

Oddly enough, our largest concentration of birds was Nov 1, unreal amount of sprigs. After that pretty much stayed north chasing freeze line

hopfully DOGE shuts down TPWD and USFWS...problem solved, lots of them solved

Might get USFWS , but not TPWD… the parks part is forever

Federal Mandate. Never going to happen. Ducks pair up in Jan. We’ve had our 3 best season total ever, even though hunted 30% less this year. Great season

This is the reason we are in this situation. People are still in the “kill as many at all costs”, instead of considering what conservation steps need to be taken to help the obviously struggling resource. Liberal season length and bag limits aren’t it. It’s not just Texas…

My opinion from south Louisiana. I would never be in favor of delaying the start of the big duck season. We have a lot more ducks in our marsh November 1 than we do January 31. Most of our ducks are taken before January 1. There are many factors for that but keep in mind we are located on a similar latitude so I don't know why we have ducks early and Texas may not? I just know what I have seen over many years of duck hunting. Earlier the better for me for sure.

Our TX marsh birds are here like yours early. The marsh gets harder hunting as the season goes on. Ponds are eaten out and birds are moving around more. Another thing is, most of the birds that use the marsh are earlier migrators. They migrate by length of day.

TDK, if your referring to my post, you don’t know me, or the thousands of dollars I have spent on conservation - we have ducks directly because of my planting, flooding, drilling wells, and feeding 1000s of ducks during the season- while harvesting 10% or less of that number. If your comment wasn’t at me, no worries- if it was, you shouldn’t be painting everybody with the same brush.

I would imagine 90% of these posts “my season was terrible” is predicated on selfish rationale, not from the view of conservationists like yourself.

Good luck

The idea that hunters harvest are what hurts duck numbers is ridiculous. Surely nobody believes that.

The idea that taking approximately 9-10 million birds a year of an estimated 34 million has no effect(among others) is ridiculous. Surely nobody actually believes that. Of all the ways to conserve, this is the quickest and easiest to start implementing.

For comparison of another migrator, approximately 20-25 million mourning dove are harvested each year of an estimated 340 million. I wonder what would happen if that harvest number was closer to the harvest percentages of ducks.

Wasn’t directed at anybody in particular, rather an ideology. If you don’t fit into that ideology, it’s not directed at you.

No actually, they have plenty of people believing that “harvest has no meaningful affect on the population” as crazy as it sounds

Guess you killers need to hang it up to make up for the 85% hatch fatality rate.

Only around 5-7% at best of wild duck eggs hatch and fly away, per delta and du. Humans kill 10 million per year roughly(sometimes less, 14 million in 2023) of a population of around 35 million. You think that is sustainable?

I believe in the North American conservation model. I believe that if and when harvest numbers need reduction that will happen. I believe that guys in the south having a string of bad seasons (including myself) are looking for anything to blame. I do not believe we’re being lied to about duck numbers.

I’ve actually said for years take the limit to 3 total and clear out some flat billers. But do not think over harvest is the reason for bad seasons in the south.

Anybody that believes seasons and bag limits shouldn’t have already been modified for the health of the duck population several years ago is simply ignoring the facts. It doesn’t really matter if you believe hunting has an additive effect on waterfowl mortality or is just compensatory. (The oldest argument in wildlife management.). It also doesn’t matter if you believe “the numbers” are “correct” as long as the population estimates are created with the same methodology each year.


The adaptive harvest model is based on a premise (foolish as it is) that the health of North American duck populations can be assessed and season length and overall bag limits can be determined based on the “health” of the mallard populations. The question is why isn’t the USFWS and their partners in the flyway councils, like TPWD and LDWF, managing according to the “health” of the mallard populations as measured by their own numbers.

In 1998, at the beginning of the modern adaptive harvest model used by the USFWS the North American mallard population was 16 million birds. In 2024, the mallard population estimate was only 6 million birds. That is a LOSS OF 10 MILLION BIRDS IN ONLY 26 YEARS!!! We lost 62.5% of the population in 26 years.

Think about it. If the white tailed deer population in Texas declined by 62.5% in 26 years hunters would be in Austin with pitchforks and torches like a scene from an old Frankenstein movie demanding immediate action.

To think of it another way, if the population of most other animals declined by 62.5% someone would be wanting to list them as a candidate to be on the threatened and endangered species list.

There is a HUGE problem. This problem isn’t limited to Texas or Louisiana. If the ducks just didn’t migrate due to weather then the harvest numbers should indicate that and states further up the flyway should be harvesting above average numbers. If you look at the USFWS harvest numbers during the time the current adaptive harvest strategy has been in place the numbers show the exact opposite. Harvest numbers in states up the flyway continue to decline at the same percentage or even at a greater rate than harvest numbers in states at the southern end of the flyway.

Currently, nobody is listening. Quite the opposite. It seems the USFWS is trying to double down on their flawed system. Last year the USFWS changed the methodology used to determine populations so now you can no longer do a statistically valid comparison of current population estimates versus the previous estimates.

Now it seems the ISFWS is determined to raise the pintail limit to 3 birds even though the population is still recovering from the previous mismanagement of the USFWS.

It is a sad day if you want your grandchildren to experience what we have experienced.

Just my 2 cents.
Big Hutch

I agree 100% BH! Flawed system & too much money to be lost cutting seasons & limits.

Shout it louder, maybe ducknbass will hear.

Spot on

Well said! As you noted, it isn’t just a in the south thing. Winter count numbers are down elsewhere too! But, nothing will change I’m afraid. I looked at their harvest by specie from 23, over 500,000 pintails if I remember correctly. Shoot almost 1/3 of a population that is having a hard enough time reproducing, then triple the limit???? Idk, somehow we still have people drinking the kool aid

Okay. My mind is changing.

Do we have the records at when the last time numbers were at current levels?

If hunters killing ducks has no bearing on numbers ,why don't we just have a straight limit of 6 ducks ,any species? Something doesn't line up with all the federal BS they spout. I have 0 faith in anything the feds or tx game departments tell me nowadays. I have a had a couple of federal biologist tell me in their opinion, we are way past needing to cut limits & days. The last several counts have shown it. No one wants to be the one to say it though & cut the limits etc.

$$$$$$$$$, there’s more clubs/outfitters now that are 1500+ Per person per day than the average person thinks, they do have good hunting mostly...and they stay booked. Keep in mind the required Sitka suit. Now, run their numbers based on a 40 day season instead of a 74 day. Flooding 250+ bushel corn to shoot ducks starts not making sense.

Spot on! Money ruins all hunting.

Ducknbass, lot of different numbers to look at there, but well just use mallards. Last time population was around was 6 million was back through the 80s and early 90s. Point system days, you could shoot 3 drakes, shoot a hen you go to the house. First year without point system, total limit was 3, only 2 could be mallards. Seasons weren’t 74 days long either

So, what’s going on?

thanks for the info.

Everything definitely is not adding up

From what I understand. There is alot of data and scientist now saying things are not adding up and are recommending reduced seasons and limits but the higher ups that make the decisions are not listening. Probably as already mentioned it all about the $$$

I think 90% of people in this thread, regardless of good or poor seasons lately, would take a 4 bird limit if that’s what it took to preserve our LT waterfowl population. Understand the numbers- but the so called “experts” have research that shows loss of wetlands and habitat is what affects waterfowl populations, not hunting. Have read many papers on it. I would imagine harvest does affect that somewhat, but nowhere near with the loss of habitat in the prairie pothole region, and other parts of North America. Look @ quail populations in most of Texas. East Tx used to be covered up in the 80s, now, you may not find one covey for 100s, if not 1000s of miles across the state - Cattle farming and introduction of Bermuda grasses have wiped them out- along w droughts, eye worm, etc

Exactly! This whole premise is further validation that limits and season length needs decreased. Otherwise, the problem becomes progressively worse.

Conservative hunting seasons short term, and explore longer term options that benefit the resource.

While I agree it’s money driven, surely those who implement policy that promotes such see where it leads.

Too many kids with daddy money hunting 50-60 days a season across 1/2 the country.

In an ideal world the numbers/percentage of ducks killed by hunters would not matter. Its the hatch numbers and percentage up north. But....with those poor numbers coming from the north dropping bird count (I'm in the we do not have the numbers the feds say we have boat) , then our harvest does start taking a real effect. I've heard from too many well-respected old-time hunters that something is wrong and its a combo of issues, with bird numbers at the tip of the spear.

The light at the end of tunnel is this....were simply talking numbers. 2% or 3% of millions makes a HUGE difference.

So if Im understanding this correctly, you are comparing ducks(animals that migrate hundreds and sometimes thousands of miles annually in search of what they need), to an animal that will hatch and die within the same 100 acres the majority of the time?

You can’t drink the kool aid and understand this. Somehow the kool aid drinkers can’t fathom that if the fall flight is 35 million and we shoot 14 million like we did in 23, only 21 million are headed back to nest. I would consider that a notable impact on the population

Apologies, we harvested 14 and something million out of 32 million that year, not 35. Who wants to go on record and say killing almost half of the population doesn’t have an affect on the population? A population that is under the long term goals at that

Heck I really don't care anymore. I have been reduced to camp cook and full time carpenter.

For some reason I had no idea that hunters took out that much of the population annually. Even if it's a third, that's still a huge number.

I know biologist argue that there is only so much viable breeding ground so a lot more ducks making it back in the Spring doesn't result in a linear increase in production. Basically the grounds can only hold so much... but I have a hard time believing it.

Another realization... about a million duck hunters and 10-14M ducks killed. An average of 10 or so ducks per hunter per year. That's just an average weekend to me. Maybe I'm part of the problem

I'm not one of those folks that would hesitate to do the same 2 am wake up and 2 hour drive for 2 or 3 ducks a hunt.

Below is a link to complete a survey on your thoughts on this season.

https://www.thestandardsportsman.co...YKVtWuuT5w-nQ_aem_wXq8PRJ-7vxcJsso_ppXIw

Harvest rates seem high until you only figure 10 for each hunter. I know a lot don’t shoot 10, but one guy that shoots 100 takes care of 9 that didn’t.

All 3 can be hens too. Another semi lengthy thread on that, almost identical to this one, just pintail based. Waterfowl population status thread by sniper John. Same thing, hunting doesn’t matter, research this and that, chug more kool aid, repeat.

The Katy prairie is gone,and around Eagle Lake went from 45,000 acres of rice to 4,000 and y'all wonder why we don't have ducks!

I don't think there is a single post here that "wonder why we don't have ducks!"...rather this has been a discussion, with anecdotal as well as reference to published analysis of the plight of waterfowl across at least this flyway and more broadly across the continent. In much the same way as the rice acreage on the Katy Prairie has dwindled, the participants of this thread have noted their alarm at the apparent lack of realization, or possibly purposefully ignoring the data being provided by knowledgeable, professional and respected waterfowl population biologists and statisticians, of the fact that population survey estimates don't match actual numbers seen by both members of the hunting public, and more importantly "professional" observers. Rice farmers steadily decreased the acreage committed to farming rice on the prairie in an almost exact duplication of the reduction of acre feet of water available to flood rice fields...no water...no waterfowl ~

Waterfowl population experts... actual biologists and statisticians, have had their findings diluted or completely ignored by the politicians that "lead the Agencies" that formulate and dictate policy, seasons and bag limits...These agency decision makers, no doubt influenced by the lobbyists for the equipment providing mega-stores, the social media influencers, etc, have guided hunting seasons and bag limits down the path of demise we now find ourselves on...Only by rending the future of waterfowl hunting from politicians and "biting the bullet" now do we stand any chance of preserving our water-fowling heritage...I have exercised VR regarding hens for 15 plus years...and "paid" extra to Delta and DU for any hens taken in error...and since my wife, [censored] that she was, passed in 2015... I have limited myself to 4 teal/day during early season and 3 ducks/day in aggregate, during regular duck season...and on the days the birds don't cooperate...I still get to spend hours in the duck marsh, with my canine companions, scanning the sky for the visual that still raises my pulse and makes me fumble for a teal whistle, or single reed duck call.

Just as the founders of Delta in 1911 and DU in 1937 stepped up and committed to preserving what was important to them...and their legacy...it's time we give all we can and take a little less...

Exactly! We shot them good the last 2 weeks of the season. And the past few years have been great.

I dont go off of stats and what magazines put out. I go off what I see each year and what the weather does. For some reason, alot of guys dont realize that weather is a huge reason why we either have birds or we dont. The other are crops in each flyway. More food...more ducks. Pretty simple.

Basing your assumption off of what you see in one area is very oblivious, these birds move thousands of miles annually in search of what they need. The overall population is low, and we continue to have liberal seasons and limits. Even raising the limits on some. The last time numbers were around these levels the limit was 3(2mallards)....just saying.

It is probably a combination of things rather than one issue. Could be any of Low population, more successful hunting methods, bird flu, short stopping, refuges, flooded crops and hunt clubs, higher limits in Canada and Mexico, poaching, climate changes, reduced nesting areas, predators, weather, wind farms, etc., but combined.

I completely agree that limits should be moved to 4 ducks per day. That should have been done years ago. I pray for the day that game laws follow scientific studies instead of fat wallets.

Personally I don't feel the number of ducks that can be shot is going to affect the trend. I don't believe any numbers the USFWS puts out. None. Why isn't there real research on the problem? I for one think forage is the number one reason.

Forage? What kind? Winter food? Nesting cover?

Agreed. Some of those things we can’t control. About half of them we as hunters can, and we are not. Not everyone included, but once upon a time hunters as a whole were conservationists as well. I’m seeing less and less of that these days.