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Re: Blackhawk was 100’ high and 1/2 mile off course [Re: Jimbo1] #9179716 01/31/25 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Jimbo1
Originally Posted by Creekrunner
I believe that the name they're not releasing is the Crew Chief. He certainly wouldn't have had any influence or impact on the situation. If his family doesn't want his name released, I would say that's their right.

Nope, CC was a named and pictured male SSGT. Pilot is a female.


I was referring to airline passenger manifest.

Was if the military or NTSB releasing the names on the helicopter?

Re: Blackhawk was 100’ high and 1/2 mile off course [Re: TurkeyHunter] #9179717 01/31/25 11:44 PM
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Originally Posted by TurkeyHunter
Originally Posted by ntxtrapper
“The researchers found that overall, people were motivated to believe in conspiracy theories by a need to understand and feel safe in their environment and a need to feel like the community they identify with is superior to others.
Even though many conspiracy theories seem to provide clarity or a supposed secret truth about confusing events, a need for closure or a sense of control were not the strongest motivators to endorse conspiracy theories. Instead, the researchers found some evidence that people were more likely to believe specific conspiracy theories when they were motivated by social relationships. For instance, participants who perceived social threats were more likely to believe in events-based conspiracy theories, such as the theory that the U.S. government planned the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, rather than an abstract theory that, in general, governments plan to harm their citizens to retain power.”

https://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2023/06/why-people-believe-conspiracy-theories


That sounds like something written specifically to lull the masses into a false sense of security.

Only joking.

Looking forward to the NTSB report. These tragedies are very often a result of a combination of errors and poor judgment. Usually not just one thing.


We had a saying at work “If you’re going to drive them, you’re going to wreck them.” Unfortunately there’s not a graceful way to crash a helicopter. This was about the worst possible outcome too.

Re: Blackhawk was 100’ high and 1/2 mile off course [Re: TurkeyHunter] #9179718 01/31/25 11:44 PM
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Originally Posted by TurkeyHunter
Originally Posted by Jimbo1
Originally Posted by Creekrunner
I believe that the name they're not releasing is the Crew Chief. He certainly wouldn't have had any influence or impact on the situation. If his family doesn't want his name released, I would say that's their right.

Nope, CC was a named and pictured male SSGT. Pilot is a female.


I was referring to airline passenger manifest.

Was if the military or NTSB releasing the names on the helicopter?

Wasn’t the NTSB, first news reports and then military released 2 of the 3.

Last edited by Jimbo1; 01/31/25 11:47 PM.


Awake - Not Woke!
Re: Blackhawk was 100’ high and 1/2 mile off course [Re: SnakeWrangler] #9179723 01/31/25 11:56 PM
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They released the Crew Chief and Warrant Officer names w/ pics. The Pilot is a female and her name is not being released at the request of the family.


Originally Posted by Superduty
I am still looking for the perfect apron, one with reinforced knee areas would be perfect.


Some people live an entire lifetime & wonder if they have ever made a difference in the world, a veteran doesn't have that problem. 40th
Re: Blackhawk was 100’ high and 1/2 mile off course [Re: SnakeWrangler] #9179724 02/01/25 12:02 AM
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https://www.newsnationnow.com/us-ne...rning%20-%20WEEKDAYS%202025%202025-01-31



“Officials, though not the NTSB, were expected to release a flight manifest Friday with a list of those on board the American Airlines jet carrying 60 passengers and four crew members when it collided with a military helicopter carrying three soldiers at Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport.“

It’s not the NTSB’s job to release a manifest. They are accident investigators.


Just boarded a flight.

bolt

Re: Blackhawk was 100’ high and 1/2 mile off course [Re: SnakeWrangler] #9179794 02/01/25 02:32 AM
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hope not to Philly


SPACE FOR RENT


Re: Blackhawk was 100’ high and 1/2 mile off course [Re: Buzzsaw] #9179796 02/01/25 02:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Buzzsaw
hope not to Philly


Phoenix to San Antonio. Just arrived.

Re: Blackhawk was 100’ high and 1/2 mile off course [Re: SnakeWrangler] #9180064 02/01/25 11:38 PM
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Re: Blackhawk was 100’ high and 1/2 mile off course [Re: Roll-Tide] #9180068 02/01/25 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Roll-Tide
[Linked Image]

Sad to see a young life cut short.


[Linked Image]



Re: Blackhawk was 100’ high and 1/2 mile off course [Re: SnakeWrangler] #9180069 02/01/25 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Roll-Tide
[Linked Image]

So?


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Re: Blackhawk was 100’ high and 1/2 mile off course [Re: SnakeWrangler] #9180281 02/02/25 04:03 PM
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Veteran pilot gives a good breakdown:

Re: Blackhawk was 100’ high and 1/2 mile off course [Re: oldoak2000] #9180285 02/02/25 04:08 PM
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So what did he say?

Re: Blackhawk was 100’ high and 1/2 mile off course [Re: ndhunter] #9180348 02/02/25 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by ndhunter
So what did he say?


One important point he raised is the need to 'set' the barometric pressure accurately (preferably corrected pressure supplied by the control tower).

IF you were off by 1/10th hg this could result in a significant change in the altimeter reading (as much as 100 ft depending on temperature and other factors).


Spartans ask not...how many, but where!
Re: Blackhawk was 100’ high and 1/2 mile off course [Re: SnakeWrangler] #9180837 02/03/25 05:24 PM
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The jet was banking left to line up on the short runway when the chopper hit them. I doubt the jet ever saw it coming.


SPACE FOR RENT


Re: Blackhawk was 100’ high and 1/2 mile off course [Re: flintknapper] #9181170 02/04/25 03:17 AM
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Originally Posted by flintknapper
Originally Posted by ndhunter
So what did he say?


One important point he raised is the need to 'set' the barometric pressure accurately (preferably corrected pressure supplied by the control tower).

IF you were off by 1/10th hg this could result in a significant change in the altimeter reading (as much as 100 ft depending on temperature and other factors).




1/10 is about 200 feet. I can tell you that in controlled areas like the FRZ, class Bravo, or class Charlie airports, the announced (ATIS/ ASOS/ AWOS) is only off by 1/100 hg to 3/100 hg between airports. 1/100 hg is about 20 feet.

Every airplane in those areas are required to have at least one certified altimeter. The Blackhawk and the RJ probably had 2 each. My GA airplane has 2.

ATC announces the altimeter setting when they talk to a new pilot, or verifies that the pilot has the weather (altimeter) at the destination airport. It is the procedure.

It was pilot error.

Re: Blackhawk was 100’ high and 1/2 mile off course [Re: texasag93] #9181176 02/04/25 03:32 AM
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Originally Posted by texasag93
Originally Posted by flintknapper
Originally Posted by ndhunter
So what did he say?


One important point he raised is the need to 'set' the barometric pressure accurately (preferably corrected pressure supplied by the control tower).

IF you were off by 1/10th hg this could result in a significant change in the altimeter reading (as much as 100 ft depending on temperature and other factors).




1/10 is about 200 feet. I can tell you that in controlled areas like the FRZ, class Bravo, or class Charlie airports, the announced (ATIS/ ASOS/ AWOS) is only off by 1/100 hg to 3/100 hg between airports. 1/100 hg is about 20 feet.

Every airplane in those areas are required to have at least one certified altimeter. The Blackhawk and the RJ probably had 2 each. My GA airplane has 2.

ATC announces the altimeter setting when they talk to a new pilot, or verifies that the pilot has the weather (altimeter) at the destination airport. It is the procedure.

It was pilot error.




which pilot?


An unethical shot is one you take, that you know you shouldn't.
Re: Blackhawk was 100’ high and 1/2 mile off course [Re: texasag93] #9181184 02/04/25 03:49 AM
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Originally Posted by texasag93
Originally Posted by flintknapper
Originally Posted by ndhunter
So what did he say?


One important point he raised is the need to 'set' the barometric pressure accurately (preferably corrected pressure supplied by the control tower).

IF you were off by 1/10th hg this could result in a significant change in the altimeter reading (as much as 100 ft depending on temperature and other factors).




1/10 is about 200 feet. I can tell you that in controlled areas like the FRZ, class Bravo, or class Charlie airports, the announced (ATIS/ ASOS/ AWOS) is only off by 1/100 hg to 3/100 hg between airports. 1/100 hg is about 20 feet.

Every airplane in those areas are required to have at least one certified altimeter. The Blackhawk and the RJ probably had 2 each. My GA airplane has 2.

ATC announces the altimeter setting when they talk to a new pilot, or verifies that the pilot has the weather (altimeter) at the destination airport. It is the procedure.

It was pilot error.



^^^^^^

Agree, most likely.

I can imagine there is more to keep track of in a Blackhawk than the average GA airplane (which is enough).

[Linked Image]
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My Wife always thinks "We are going to die"!

[Linked Image]

But I don't think the ATC should have consented to Visual Separation in this case, seeing what they did on screen. Or it may not have made any difference....given how quickly the two aircraft collided....IDK.

A shame....what ever the cause(s).


Spartans ask not...how many, but where!
Re: Blackhawk was 100’ high and 1/2 mile off course [Re: onlysmith&wesson] #9181188 02/04/25 04:02 AM
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Originally Posted by onlysmith&wesson
Originally Posted by texasag93
Originally Posted by flintknapper
Originally Posted by ndhunter
So what did he say?


One important point he raised is the need to 'set' the barometric pressure accurately (preferably corrected pressure supplied by the control tower).

IF you were off by 1/10th hg this could result in a significant change in the altimeter reading (as much as 100 ft depending on temperature and other factors).




1/10 is about 200 feet. I can tell you that in controlled areas like the FRZ, class Bravo, or class Charlie airports, the announced (ATIS/ ASOS/ AWOS) is only off by 1/100 hg to 3/100 hg between airports. 1/100 hg is about 20 feet.

Every airplane in those areas are required to have at least one certified altimeter. The Blackhawk and the RJ probably had 2 each. My GA airplane has 2.

ATC announces the altimeter setting when they talk to a new pilot, or verifies that the pilot has the weather (altimeter) at the destination airport. It is the procedure.

It was pilot error.




which pilot?


CRJ was cleared to land so he had priority. That jet was #1 in the pattern


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Re: Blackhawk was 100’ high and 1/2 mile off course [Re: SnakeWrangler] #9181210 02/04/25 04:59 AM
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I think if you had to "blame" anyone, it would have to be the chopper pilot.


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Re: Blackhawk was 100’ high and 1/2 mile off course [Re: flintknapper] #9181230 02/04/25 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by flintknapper
I can imagine there is more to keep track of in a Blackhawk than the average GA airplane (which is enough).

But I don't think the ATC should have consented to Visual Separation in this case, seeing what they did on screen. Or it may not have made any difference....given how quickly the two aircraft collided....IDK.

A shame....what ever the cause(s).


It's fairly busy up there, and not as much visibility out front as a lot of folks think. When I've flown, there have normally been two "crew chiefs" where each of them are the pilot's and co-pilot's eyes from the side. All four work as a well-oiled machine and the crew gives the pilot the all-clear to whichever side the pilot needs to go before that stick ever moves.

In crowded airspace such as DCA, I wonder how the crew chief was helping the pilots identify airborne hazards...

Such a tragedy in all respects. Many prayers to the families of all who lost their lives that night.

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Re: Blackhawk was 100’ high and 1/2 mile off course [Re: SnakeWrangler] #9181333 02/04/25 03:48 PM
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The chopper was a basic training flight, had no business in the pattern, they should train in other places. 450 hours for the pilot, not very good but my military standards its normal.


SPACE FOR RENT


Re: Blackhawk was 100’ high and 1/2 mile off course [Re: Buzzsaw] #9181844 02/05/25 04:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Buzzsaw
The chopper was a basic training flight, had no business in the pattern, they should train in other places. 450 hours for the pilot, not very good but my military standards its normal.

Not sure what a "basic training flight" is, but do you not want the military to "train like it fights?" It was a training flight of a mission that, in real-world scenarios, would only occur in DC. Personally, I would want that crew training in DC.


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Re: Blackhawk was 100’ high and 1/2 mile off course [Re: SnakeWrangler] #9181848 02/05/25 04:26 AM
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I want them training like they fight, and I want them fighting without women involved.

Re: Blackhawk was 100’ high and 1/2 mile off course [Re: Sneaky] #9181854 02/05/25 04:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Sneaky
I want them training like they fight, and I want them fighting without women involved.

We are in agreement, then.


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Re: Blackhawk was 100’ high and 1/2 mile off course [Re: kry226] #9181862 02/05/25 05:49 AM
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Originally Posted by kry226
Originally Posted by Buzzsaw
The chopper was a basic training flight, had no business in the pattern, they should train in other places. 450 hours for the pilot, not very good but my military standards its normal.

Not sure what a "basic training flight" is, but do you not want the military to "train like it fights?" It was a training flight of a mission that, in real-world scenarios, would only occur in DC. Personally, I would want that crew training in DC.

and how did that work out for the AA jet?


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