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Re: Shooting fawns [Re: QuitShootinYoungBucks] #9178991 Yesterday at 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by QuitShootinYoungBucks
Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted by QuitShootinYoungBucks
Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
but if you truly want to impact the numbers you have to delete a generation before they start fawning…


That still makes no sense to me unless the choice is to not shoot does at all. Fawns won't produce for 2 years. If you pass on 20 breeding age does to take fawns, the does you passed will potentially have 20 doe fawns in just a few months. It doesn't matter at all what age the breeding does are - if you have 50 does that are 3, 5, and 7 or 50 that are 2, 3,4,5,6,7, you still have 50 does. Removing a generation does nothing unless you are constantly under carrying capacity/target number.


This isn’t theory, go back to what I first wrote specifically about tags. You dont have to take my word for it, STX and Amos do & have done doe flops, documented on THF.

You wouldnt have 50 in the fawn flop set you would have 30, and you would be going in to the next hunting season with 45(30 does, 15 doe fawns) where as the other you would be going in to season with 75does(50 does, 25 doe fawns)

you are mistaken on the 2 years, early born doe fawns can produce as yealings, especially with good environmental years(its essentially birth dates and body weight) . There are countries that fawn will hit the ground in April, as there will always be does getting bred in Oct in a lot of areas. I’ve killed enough bred Yearlings via MLD in lat Jan/Feb to know that the 2 years is false. I bet in some areas it’s as high as 20% +

Doe fawn flop is no different then drought years, except bucks fawns lived to mature






So you're running below carrying-capacity/you have a target herd size of does. That works if you've already reduced the overall number. Thanks!



No that’s to get to below CC, if you only have does that are 2,4,6 you are 5 years into your flop, this is all assuming you have the tag numbers, and you know your heard numbers and ration begs to greatly reduce the number. You are still killing does on years you aren’t on the doe fawn flop.

Once at CC you can still do the doe fawn flop but the intervals would be extended out more,


Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, b/c they know not victory nor defeat"- #26 TR
Re: Shooting fawns [Re: corkys son] #9178994 Yesterday at 03:36 PM
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Ive never read the research but im with Quit on “few” fawns breeding and being good mommas. “Some” will breed, “some” of those will carry to term, “some” of those will make it past the coyotes. That small original number keeps getting even smaller until very few will be recruited into the herd as past their own birthday. Maybe it’s different on properties that are intensively managed but I always feel that the number of those places are very “few”. Just my opinion.


At some point in life its time to quit chasing the pot of gold and just enjoy the rainbow. FR
Keep your gratitude higher than your expectations. RWH
Re: Shooting fawns [Re: QuitShootinYoungBucks] #9178999 Yesterday at 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by QuitShootinYoungBucks
Originally Posted by kry226
Originally Posted by QuitShootinYoungBucks
Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
but if you truly want to impact the numbers you have to delete a generation before they start fawning…


That still makes no sense to me unless the choice is to not shoot does at all. Fawns won't produce for 2 years. If you pass on 20 breeding age does to take fawns, the does you passed will potentially have 20 doe fawns in just a few months. It doesn't matter at all what age the breeding does are - if you have 50 does that are 3, 5, and 7 or 50 that are 2, 3,4,5,6,7, you still have 50 does. Removing a generation does nothing unless you are constantly under carrying capacity/target number.

I believe you've said this at least one other time in this thread but research says that is incorrect. Some fawns, especially those in healthy herds, will breed at 6-8 months of age.

https://deerassociation.com/doe-fawns-breed-good-sign/

https://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/...d-fawns-typically-become-superior-adults


It's extremely rare, they'll likely only have a single fawn, and mortality will be high. Remind me where in Texas we ever have 'good conditions' on a regular basis. On the whole, what I said holds up as the reproductive rate of fawns versus older does will be pretty miniscule.


How do you know it’s rare unless you are killing late season Yearlings?


Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, b/c they know not victory nor defeat"- #26 TR
Re: Shooting fawns [Re: Sniper John] #9179002 Yesterday at 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Sniper John
If someone messes up one year, You have fun ribbing the heck out of them around the campfire with peer pressure and laugh about it, but not a fine. Otherwise it is just good way to lose a friend.


Many moons ago, we were on a mission to kill a bunch of does. I screwed up and killed two button bucks in the same morning hunt. Three of us, including the ranch owner, loaded them up in the bed of the truck. We all thought they were does until we actually got them up on the gambrel and started cutting. I felt awful about it, and still do...and, yes, I still get ribbed about it. Fortunately, the ranch owner (who is one of my best friends and has many more years of hunting experience than me) didn't fine me or send me packing. Instead, he used it as a teaching moment and provided some tips on how to avoid making that mistake in the future. I learned from it, and it's never happened again.

I have a lot more experience these days, but I continue to learn from him, and our friendship will remain intact until we're both gone from this earth. That's what hunting should be about, in my opinion.

Re: Shooting fawns [Re: freerange] #9179007 Yesterday at 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by freerange
Ive never read the research but im with Quit on “few” fawns breeding and being good mommas. “Some” will breed, “some” of those will carry to term, “some” of those will make it past the coyotes. That small original number keeps getting even smaller until very few will be recruited into the herd as past their own birthday. Maybe it’s different on properties that are intensively managed but I always feel that the number of those places are very “few”. Just my opinion.


They are few, that was my very first post, most people don’t have the acreage or tags, much less the stomach. But if you want to lower does numbers exponentially take out bottom age class,

But like any policy there needs to be hard data to make rules make sense. If you are limited on doe numbers then try to take top age class to encourage more multi year recruitment from the younger ages.


Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, b/c they know not victory nor defeat"- #26 TR
Re: Shooting fawns [Re: QuitShootinYoungBucks] #9179058 Yesterday at 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by QuitShootinYoungBucks
Originally Posted by corkys son
We implemented a rule on our East Texas lease several years ago-no killing fawns. We had 3 fawns harvested in one day, people shooting a single deer that comes out on it's own and they can't judge the size/age of the deer. MLD lease. Implemented a $500 fine for anyone killing one. Same fine for anyone killing an underage buck---3 1/2 years old minimum age. Question is this, what is your opinion on this rule. In my opinion, we have no business killing fawns--but when I bring this up to other leases they would never impose a fine for shooting fawns. What say THF?



Your lease, your rules. If you are really working at managing your herd, depending on how long you've been at it, you should expect your fawns to have better genetics than older does. Thus, there's even more of a reason to leave them. $500 is steep but it should certainly have the desired effect.

IMO it's pretty stupid to shoot fawns. There have been pics on here of people who let their kids shoot fawns and celebrated like it was a great accomplishment. Congrats, you killed the easiest deer out there and it also happens to have the lowest yield of meat. So you didn't do it for a trophy, and you didn't do it to provide for your family. WTH would you intentionally kill a fawn?

/rant

I can’t understand why people shoot young deer, I see nice young upcoming bucks every year, I will see them every time I go and, then they are gone never seen again.
I believe most parts of the state will grow trophy deer if they can get the age on them.

Re: Shooting fawns [Re: QuitShootinYoungBucks] #9179385 8 minutes ago
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Originally Posted by QuitShootinYoungBucks
Originally Posted by kry226
Originally Posted by QuitShootinYoungBucks
Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
but if you truly want to impact the numbers you have to delete a generation before they start fawning…


That still makes no sense to me unless the choice is to not shoot does at all. Fawns won't produce for 2 years. If you pass on 20 breeding age does to take fawns, the does you passed will potentially have 20 doe fawns in just a few months. It doesn't matter at all what age the breeding does are - if you have 50 does that are 3, 5, and 7 or 50 that are 2, 3,4,5,6,7, you still have 50 does. Removing a generation does nothing unless you are constantly under carrying capacity/target number.

I believe you've said this at least one other time in this thread but research says that is incorrect. Some fawns, especially those in healthy herds, will breed at 6-8 months of age.

https://deerassociation.com/doe-fawns-breed-good-sign/

https://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/...d-fawns-typically-become-superior-adults


It's extremely rare, they'll likely only have a single fawn, and mortality will be high. Remind me where in Texas we ever have 'good conditions' on a regular basis. On the whole, what I said holds up as the reproductive rate of fawns versus older does will be pretty miniscule.

Prove it. I provided links. Every herd is different, but prove it's minuscule. You even said does won't produce for TWO YEARS. That is patently false, even if they don't breed at 6-8 months. You can bet your bottom dollar they'll breed at 18 months (yearlings).


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