In south Texas we were instructed to shoot the mama doe first and then shoot the fawn cause they tend to not run off.

AMEN! We hunt the hill country and see 25-30 deer per sitting simultaneously at 3 stands. Even the wardens say please use all 5 of your tags!

Unless there is a specific management plan that prohibits harvesting a fawn, why is this even an issue? Go hunting and enjoy the outdoors. If you do or don't want to shoot a fawn, that is your choice. The lease I am on (Mills County) is overrun with deer. Mostly fawn, and doe. This won't happen, but the best thing we could do is harvest doe, fawn, and mature spikes, while giving the bigger bucks a rest. We have some members that don't shoot anything, and some that will only take a mature buck. That is not any plan, just how it has worked out.

This is exactly what I do. The fawns never run, and if they do, it's only a few yards.

One of the leases I was on the lease manager wanted us to shoot at least one doe or fawn before we shot a buck. It wasn't a rule, no fine but management. way off doe/buck ratio. There is far too much emphasis on trophy hunting. Deer hunting should not be reduced to shooting the biggest buck for show off purposes.

If you have 4 or 5 hunters on a lease with like goals, I do not think you have to have a list of rules as long as your arm to keep people in line. If it is a bigger lease with a large number of hunters that do not know each other, I think you do need a list of rules and expectations. The larger the number of participants, the more likely you are to have 1 or 2 that need to have specific rules and every once in a while enforcement of those rules reminds all players to participate by the rules. This is not specific to killing or not killing fawns, but rules that are continually not mentioned or enforced will be the ones that most people abuse.

X2

I shot one last year. Like 6 months old or less. Knocked the spots right off her. Bucket list meal 👌.

In a lot of E Tx the deer density is pretty low, combine that with heavy cover makes it challenging to see very many deer during the season. It is no surprise that inexperienced hunters cannot judge deer, then there are others hunters mindset that if it is Brown it is Down for fear they will not see another deer for the rest of the season.

I get it shooting does and fawns in high density areas, but maybe naively I do not agree with shooting fawns in low to medium density areas, seems like coyotes, hogs and other factors would keep the fawn population in balance.

agree with Stub as that assessment ...

we "had" a guy several years ago that got bad buck fever with any deer that walked out, killed 2 nubbin bucks one year thinking they were does, also drew blood several times on target bucks that were never recovered that same season. The next year rules put into lease agreement on fines for nubbin buck and if blood was drawn had to turn in his buck tag (MLD). I don't think he ever paid a fine but didn't shoot too much (that we knew about) that season and wasn't asked to return the following year. There were many other red flags.

edit: east Texas MLD lease

Not that I'm advocating for shooting fawns, but I read somewhere one time that shooting fawns and younger does actually has less impact on the overall number of deer in the area than killing mature does. Something about mature does usually being better mothers and their fawns are more likely to survive than younger doe's fawns. Kinda made sense.

When you say mature Doe's, at what age is she mature, 4 1/2 and older? At what age does a Doe become to old to care/nurture a fawn and then needs to be culled out of the herd?

What they are advocating for is mature does typically are more adapt to have twins on good years, but if you truly want to impact the numbers you have to delete a generation before they start fawning…

Lots of interesting

Lot of interesting reasons whether or not to shoot fawns, some I've never heard nor thought of before. Makes sense on both sides of the fence. My problem was we had hunters killing fawns thinking they were mature does. Thanks again for your replies!

If you have a high number or high ratio of does to bucks, and are limited on tags, then a doe is a doe, but it would benefit in long run to take more fawn does.

If you have low numbers and you want recruitment while trying to keep ratio semi in check while still giving doe harvest opportunity then don’t shoot doe fawns and aim for oldest does

That still makes no sense to me unless the choice is to not shoot does at all. Fawns won't produce for 2 years. If you pass on 20 breeding age does to take fawns, the does you passed will potentially have 20 doe fawns in just a few months. It doesn't matter at all what age the breeding does are - if you have 50 does that are 3, 5, and 7 or 50 that are 2, 3,4,5,6,7, you still have 50 does. Removing a generation does nothing unless you are constantly under carrying capacity/target number.

You could just manage your deer like the Amish. Never kill a fawn nor a doe. Let us know how it works out.

No fawns are to be shot in any of my places.

This isn’t theory, go back to what I first wrote specifically about tags. You dont have to take my word for it, STX and Amos do & have done doe flops, documented on THF.

You wouldnt have 50 in the fawn flop set you would have 30, and you would be going in to the next hunting season with 45(30 does, 15 doe fawns) where as the other you would be going in to season with 75does(50 does, 25 doe fawns)

you are mistaken on the 2 years, early born doe fawns can produce as yealings, especially with good environmental years(its essentially birth dates and body weight) . There are countries that fawn will hit the ground in April, as there will always be does getting bred in Oct in a lot of areas. I’ve killed enough bred Yearlings via MLD in lat Jan/Feb to know that the 2 years is false. I bet in some areas it’s as high as 20% +

Doe fawn flop is no different then drought years, except bucks fawns lived to mature

The place I do the majority of my whitetail hunting is a sizeable MLD. We have 17 members. The habitat is above average. We keep the population at or slightly below carrying capacity and keep the doe to buck ratio between 1 and 1.5 to 1. Annually we get +or- 140 doe permits. We have low hunter density and it works out to a little over 8 does per member/year. Population control is about matching the herd size to the habitat so the deer can subsist on predominantly first choice browse without degrading the habitat. I have no problem if somebody shoots a fawn or yearling doe. A nubbin would be a different discussion but we don’t shoot them. Easy enough to do if you make a positive Identification. All that means is if you can not be certain then you pass. In my instance, taking mouths off the habitat is a numbers game to stay in the sweet spot and the young ones are undeniably better on the table. During season we cook group meals Friday and Saturday evenings. At least a couple times per season we eat venison. If venison is on the menu, we send a couple kids to pop a couple young does for the table. Even the kids manage to lay off the nubbins. It’s not that difficult. Cattle are no different. What age beef do you prefer on the table? Not shooting the young ones is an emotion based decision that some are squeamish about. Personally I am more squeamish about shooting a lactating doe with fawns than a young doe.

Smokey, when you say “young ones” I assume you are talking about fawns and not just young does……?
As always, thanks for taking time to explain things.

More particularly yearlings. I don’t think any of our members or their kids purposely shoot fawns. If a member does shoot one, the whole thing usually gets sliced thin, chicken fried, and ate at camp. We don’t need a rule against it. With the number of does we need to take annually, guests play a role in our doe harvest. Sometimes a guest will bring a little fawn to the skinning rack. There is usually some good natured ribbing when we weigh them and cut the little jaw bone out that still has the milk teeth. When it happens, we fill out a doe permit and tag it. Nobody gets bent out of shape. The guest ends up with some fine eating and we are one closer to the number we want to get to.

I believe you've said this at least one other time in this thread but research says that is incorrect. Some fawns, especially those in healthy herds, will breed at 6-8 months of age.

https://deerassociation.com/doe-fawns-breed-good-sign/

https://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/...d-fawns-typically-become-superior-adults

It's extremely rare, they'll likely only have a single fawn, and mortality will be high. Remind me where in Texas we ever have 'good conditions' on a regular basis. On the whole, what I said holds up as the reproductive rate of fawns versus older does will be pretty miniscule.

So you're running below carrying-capacity/you have a target herd size of does. That works if you've already reduced the overall number. Thanks!