IMO, the draw hunts in Texas are a joke.

We have such a large amount of land that isn’t being utilized for hunting it’s sad. And what is available for hunting is thru a draw that is more or less a babysit hunt. It’s nothing like drawing a tag in a western state.

I’m not sure how many non-residents actually put in for the draw hunts here, but I don’t care if they have the same draw odds as residents.

As a whole, Texas is non-res friendly. One could buy a license OTC and go hunt national forests or some of the walk in areas we have here.

After being drawn for a couple I would agree the ones I've hunted have been somewhat "babysitting". I get it, they deal with all sorts of clueless people. One i just went on a group had to be "rescued" in the middle of the night.....kinda eye opening when you're used to hunting actual wilderness in the west. The hunts are fun though, and something to do in the "off season"...

Actually don't even have to buy a license if hog hunting, anyone can just go which is kind of crazy to me...Make a little conservation money off of visitors...

On the feral hog drawn hunts you must pay a permit fee. For the post card hunts you must have an annual public hunting permit. Do they not require the 5 day non-game hunting license like they do for exotic hunts?

Yep basically the point I was trying to make. Comparing what is going on in other Western states dealing with population growth and social media hype blowing up the draws to what goes on in Texas is laughable for the draws. I don't see trucks from Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Michigan, California, and God knows where else invade Texas during hunting season. It just doesn't happen like that here. It does where I live, in a big way.

I am not here as a Non-resident saying that Residents should not have cheaper licenses and higher opportunity for what is available. They absolutely should, and I even stated I agreed with the idea of requiring non-residents to purchase some type of qualifying license to enter the draw. But if they go that route, the draw needs to resemble other western states with clear and transparent quotas etc. I don't see the Texas draw system going that direction, there is not enough meat on that bone to justify the time input...from their perspective it is working now. They can't even provide any info at what point levels people are drawing tags!

Literally I have units around me in Colorado that I would posit host more NR hunters during a single rifle season than ALL Texas Public Hunts deer hunts combined host NR.

We have a lot of out of state hunters here, but they mainly hunt private land. We would regularly host guys from Kansas, Florida and North Carolina, and our neighbor had hunters every year from Tennessee, Idaho and California. One buddy who has an exotic ranch, one of his biggest clients is from Colorado. I don't see anyone from out of state wasting their time or energy to come hunt Public land down here.....maybe a few cross over from Louisiana to hunt the Nat. Forests in East Texas but I'm not sure. But, your right, we don't have a mass influx of guys from other states that drive in during the fall. If Texas had better public hunting opportunities it would probably be different.


I haven't hunted in Colorado in a few seasons, but I would see license plates from Oklahoma, Kansas, Texas, Michigan, New Mexico, Ohio....you name it, during elk season. Met a guy from Wisconsin on my last mule deer hunt who would come in and stay for a month and did it every year for the past 30 years.

I will literally place blame on YouTube, MeatEater and Randy Newburg for the dramatic increase in people flocking to the west to hunt. That's the reason I don't post what states I shoot my animals in, unless its on private property. Newburg will pretty much take you by the hand, tell you what, where and how to apply, and then give you GPS coordinates to a unit to go hunt in. Last time I hunted 2nd rifle season in Colorado it was so crowded it literally was not enjoyable.

Most other states, you can hunt on state owned land via a permit or quota system, and they don't have to hold your hand. Most of these lands are open to the public so you have to contend with other users like hikers, bicyclists, joggers, etc. You get your permit, go and scout, set up your own stand, access when you want within the hunt period, etc. Everyone is a winner.

The whole assigned blind and compartment thing is juvenile. It's like adult day care with guns.

Texas could open up tens of thousands of acres (or more) of land to hunting to the public via a permit/lottery system and not affect other uses of the property. Restrict them to bow-hunting if safety is a concern. You would have higher quality hunts, more hunter engagement and better management of the wildlife resource.

Just like my beef with the Non-resident tag allotment on national forest and BLM land, Texas land is bought/kept up with our Tax dollars and the way they do the hunting here on state owned land is a gross mis-management imo.

txtrophy85 preach!

It is pretty funny how many people I have talked to who have come down to hunt pigs and that was one of the reasons I wanted to leave. I know Texas has its share of NR hunters, but the sheer volume of land and resident hunters probably masks that. The reality is, there are things you can do in Texas that you cannot do anywhere else; and that is a draw for a lot of folks. Hunting at night, exotics, high fences, hogs, bait, huge WT population...those things just don't exist in most of places and there is a market.

From an Idaho non-resident, who was previously a Texas resident. I play the drawn hunts game every year, and will continue as long as I can. I have been lucky in the past, and they are some of my fondest memories of Texas. These are my feelings below, and the comments are what I provide to TPWD each year.

As an Idaho hunter and non-resident in many Western states now, I get the opportunity to apply in many different draw systems. Some are good, some are bad, and all are structured different for differing reasons. Here is my present feelings on the Texas system, currently employed by TPWD, and suggestions (from a non-resident) to help make it better.

1. Draw odds and success rates are currently terrible, even with the last change to 3X loyalty points. I think we need to stop the unlimited amount of applications in each category. For antlered hunts, limit people to three (3) choices. Anterless hunts can remain unlimited.

2. Costs for non-resident applications are too low, and should be raised to approximately three (3) times resident rates If resident applications are capped at $3, then raise non-resident application fees to $10. For trophy hunts, guided hunts, or once-in-a-lifetime, then those fees should be $10 for residents and $25-30 for non-residents

3. Because Texas has many different license structures and costs, there is not a perfect choice of how to require a license to apply. There should be a basic Conservation Permit purchased first, in order to apply for the Public Hunts, or require the Annual Public Hunt Permit as a minimum. The full cost license is $315 and the 5 WT, 1 MD, and 4 turkey tags are a waste to most NR’s who have no place to use them, without spending thousands of dollars on an outfitted hunt. The difficulty of obtaining a lease is evident by the sheer volume of people advertising and looking for one, every season. That is a pipe dream even for some residents

4. Implement a limit (cap) on numbers of drawn tags for non-residents to a MAX of up to 10% per hunt for non-residents. No set aside or guarantied number. If there are less than 10 tags, the max non-resident is ONE (1) tag total, not one permit with multiple hunters on it . Talking to several of the administrators of the Texas Public Hunts, the number of non-resident applicants has remained around only 3% of the total for quite a few years, and has not been a problem in the past.

5. Implement a mandatory waiting list of two years for antlered hunts, and one year for anterless hunts for ALL successful people in the draws, resident and non-resident alike, before they can re-apply in that one particular hunt. Not the category itself!!

Blank, I couldn't agree more with everything you said, and is basically a mirror of what I told them on my survey.

I live and hunt in Wyoming. I know.

I still think it's worth applying, even if it's kind of hand holding. In my experience if you know what you're doing, the state parks patrol guys usually let a little slack out of the leash...so to speak.

You and I see eye to eye of the Newbergs of the internet btw.

In over 30+ years of hunting the TPWD public hunts, I have never felt they were condescending or overly meddlesome. Show them you are not a hazard or total nimrod who can't find his way back to the truck, and they will offer to help if they can. I have been lucky enough to hunt Chaparral, Matador, Palo Verde, Mason Mt,, Choke Canyon and they usually end up being 600-1000 acre compartments. Plenty of room to do as you wish!!

liked!!!

Every year we get the satisfaction survey, and we dutifully fill it out and it disappears into the ether of beauracy. This year I sent them an email as well as the survey. Here is their reply I received today; some I knew, some I suspected, and others were new to me. Thought I would provide the departments "official" answer to my response to the survey.


Re: Texas Public Hunting Survey

I would like to provide some input for the current survey going on. I did not draw any Public Hunting permits this year, or get a hunting license due to scheduling conflicts, so I did not get a survey. I enjoy hunting in Texas a lot, and participate as often as possible. As a non-resident, sometimes this frequently, sometimes not at all for a year or two

Having lived in Texas previously, and enjoyed the Public Drawn Hunt program I realize how important it is to TPWD to get info back from ALL the participants, and constantly try to improve the system. I spend a lot of time on all the hunting and fishing forums, and like to provide input as I see it. Many times this follows resident logic and feelings, and often it is contrary to those ideas.

As an Idaho hunter and non-resident in many Western states now, I get the opportunity to apply in many different draw systems. Some are good, some are bad, and all are structured different for differing reasons. Here is my present feelings on the Texas system, currently employed by TPWD, and suggestions (from a non-resident) to help make it better.

1. Draw odds and success rates are currently terrible, even with the last change to 3X loyalty points. I think we need to stop the unlimited amount of applications in each category. For antlered hunts, limit people to three (3) choices. Anterless hunts can remain unlimited.

The PHTC discussed the cubing of points for over two years before a concise decision was achieved. It was decided that based on “clear and transparent” process cubing would apply across the board to all categories in which unsuccessful applicants are awarded loyalty points.

2. Costs for non-resident applications are too low, and should be raised to approximately three (3) times resident rates If resident applications are capped at $3, then raise non-resident application fees to $10. For trophy hunts, guided hunts, or once-in-a-lifetime, then those fees should be $10 for residents and $25-30 for non-residents

Texas Statue regulates the cost of hunting licenses for residents vs. non-residents. This is a major obstacle for many non-residents to hunt out of state. The PHTC has decided that application fees will be “fair and equitable” and not restrictive to either residents or non-residents. That being said, successful non-resident applicants are required to by a Non-Resident hunting license prior to being allowed to attend their selected hunt.


3. Because Texas has many different license structures and costs, there is not a perfect choice of how to require a license to apply. There should be a basic Conservation Permit purchased first, in order to apply for the Public Hunts, or require the Annual Public Hunt Permit as a minimum. The full cost license is $315 and the 5 WT, 1 MD, and 4 turkey tags are a waste to most NR’s who have no place to use them, without spending thousands of dollars on an outfitted hunt. The difficult of obtaining a lease is evident by the sheer volume of people advertising and looking for one , every season

By legislative statue, we are not allowed to collect anymore fees than are required to maintain our drawing system. As such, requiring the purchase of a license prior to being allowed to enter an application in the public draw system is against state statute. Additionally, this also applies to why resident and non-resident application fees are the same.


4. Implement a limit (cap) on numbers of drawn tags for non-residents to a MAX of up to 10% per hunt for non-residents. No set aside or guarantied number. If there are less than 10 tags, the max non-resident is ONE (1).

The below section of TPWD Code directs that we are not able to limit the number of applicants or their residency.
Sec. 81.403. PERMITS; (a-1) Except as provided by this section, permits for hunting of wildlife or for any other use in wildlife management areas or public hunting lands shall be issued by the department to applicants by means of a fair method of distribution subject to limitations on the maximum number of permits to be issued. (b) The department may implement a system of issuing special permits that gives preference to those applicants who have applied previously but were not selected to receive a permit.


5. Implement a mandatory waiting list of two years for antlered hunts, and one year for anterless hunts for ALL successful people in the draws, resident and non-resident alike

This is not “fair and equitable!” Winning applicants should not be penalized because they were successfully selected one year and not be allowed the opportunity to reapply and start building their loyalty points for follow on seasons. The cubing of loyalty points works to address this issue as well.


Thank you for proving a great opportunity for hunters in Texas.

Joel C. Blankenship
511 Morning Sun Ct.
Nampa, Idaho 83686
208-521-4839

Texas Customer No. 85180000120

I sent this email to Texas Parks and Wildlife
"I heard that person from Utah recently won the big game bighorn sheep public hunt. Is this true? Can you please explain that non-resident public hunt odds and cost compared to Texas Residents?

It's unfair that out-of-state hunters have the same odds as residents when it comes to applying for public hunts in Texas. Many states charge non-resident hunters, including Texans, exorbitant fees to hunt. I think it's reasonable that out-of-state hunters applying to hunt in Texas should pay at least three times the application fee that Texans pay.

This is especially important considering that 95% of Texas land is privately owned. As a result, lower-middle-class and middle-class hunters often can't afford deer leases and rely heavily on public hunts. To make the system more equitable, non-resident hunters should have lower odds of being selected for public hunts and pay significantly higher fees, similar to what Texas hunters face when hunting out of state."

Then I got this response: Notice they didn't answer the Bighorn Sheep question.....

"Non-resident applicants make up about 4-7% of our application pool each year and account for approximately the same number of winning selections each year. The Texas Legislature has ruled that we are not allowed to discriminate against folks that are non-residents in our Texas Parks and Wildlife Code when it comes to issuing permits. Additionally, application fees are the same for residents and non-residents however, non-resident hunting licenses which must be procured by any non-resident hunter before they come to hunt in the state on a drawn hunt must be purchased. The fees for those licenses are roughly 12 times what a resident pays for their license.

Sec. 81.403. PERMITS; (a-1) Except as provided by this section, permits for hunting of wildlife or for any other use in wildlife management areas or public hunting lands shall be issued by the department to applicants by means of a fair method of distribution subject to limitations on the maximum number of permits to be issued. (b) The department may implement a system of issuing special permits that gives preference to those applicants who have applied previously but were not selected to receive a permit.

Sincerely,

TPWD Public Hunting Program
512-389-4505"

that’s funny. I guess our hunts aren’t #%!t after all

But a non-resident can buy a 5 day special hunting license and hunt nilgai if/when they win a Laguna Atascosa hunt (not to mention all the other exotic public hunts) and only pay $48. Funny, I didn't see a $4 5 day special hunting license for residents.

But it sounds like we need to talk to our state legislators and see about amending that law.

That respose actually sheds some light on your issue. You all have a law that states you must give everyone the same chance I guess.

"The Texas Legislature has ruled that we are not allowed to discriminate against folks that are non-residents in our Texas Parks and Wildlife Code when it comes to issuing permits."

You need to lobby your legislators to get it changed like DonPablo stated.

Exotic hunts are big business in texas isn't it? Doubt guides, outfitters, land owners, want license costs to increase, might impact them financially or something.

Has no bearing on license cost. As of right now you do not need a license to enter the draw, but you do in every other state, that’s arguement

I understand that's your argument. I was addressing DonPablo's comment about 5 day hunting licenses being available to non-residents hunting Exotics. That's all.

"The Texas Legislature has ruled that we are not allowed to discriminate against folks that are non-residents in our Texas Parks and Wildlife Code when it comes to issuing permits."

"You need to lobby your legislators to get it changed like DonPablo stated."

I have already reached out to my state senator. We all should lobby our legislators. This change seems like low hanging fruit. All we can do is try and hunters like us vote....

Step one that would be fair across the board and this could be able to be done without discrimination if done to include both resident and non residents.
Require everyone to have a valid hunting license to enter the draw.

X2