Agree 100%

Freerange, I think I do understand your idea behind the round circle. It makes sense, though I’d hope for a smaller circle in my actual deer hunting situations. Still, i have wobbled a few shots over the years when aiming for the little circle and hitting in the big circle. Once or twice…or thrice…

Thanks for the good feedback guys. I’ve been dealing with this thread while I hunt all day long and sometimes I have time and sometimes I don’t. I’m about to have a little more time next day or so and I hope to keep this going.
At least a couple have suggested a slightly different aim point and I want to draw those up and show how they relate to what I’m talking about.

Listen here.

If it’s a meat deer, I’ll always shoot it in the head. They go nowhere and don’t have to bleed out. Been hunting over 50 years in various states, countries and continents. I’ve lost game that I knew were hit in the right place with the right bullet but never found them. BTW, I hand load so know what to expect. We recently found a buck on my land that had gone almost 1/4 mile, in the thick brush, with a solid heart shot. No idea how it did it. And the buzzards found it for us 2 days later.

Admittedly, if I want to mount it, I’ll go for a heart shot and generally find it. But, havent always. I shoot either a 30-06 or 30-30 hand loads and, a head shot doesn’t mess up any meat.

Anybody who hasn’t lost an animal hasn’t been hunting very long in rough country.

Anyone that gives me a different aiming point like TxTro did I will try to draw up what you suggest and show how it applies.
He suggested from my center hold in red circle to “go back 4” and down 2”.”
I think that’s what I drew in yellow(correct me if I’m wrong).
If your shot could be off in any direction(our assumption) then the yellow circle seems to me to be the area you could hit. It’s about half the size of the circle the red aiming point gives you. Not much room for error or at least not nearly as much. I would also say that the lower left part of the yellow circle will not hit much lung capacity or many blood vessels within the lungs. The lung is concave in that area and the diaphragm pushes inward so you catch thin lung on each side and guts in between. Actually I think the yellow circle should be smaller, because of this, but I tried to give it the benefit of the doubt.
I don’t claim to know it all so if I’m wrong please point it out. Trying to learn.

I agree free, that yellow circle has a good chance of hitting guts and diaphragm if missed a little more to the left.

That circle gives a smaller effective target zone. Not that we want to miss the target, but things happen and we want to maximize the room for error in the original target point.

Can’t always assume a pulled shot will hit further back. Sometimes they hit farther forward, too high, too low, etc.

IMO the yellow circle allows for a 8” diameter shot off center and still be good. 8” is a big range.

Assuming we are talking about novice hunters, telling them to shoot them in the shoulder often results in too high a hit and the deer gets away.

I guided hunters for 10 years and still do occasionally for friends. I can’t recall one of them shooting a deer in the guts.

Saw shots in the leg, one in the hoof, one in the horn, many that went high, several low brisket shots, one thru the back hams, but never one that was a center punch gut shot

The shot in your original post is what my dad taught us growing up. It’s what I taught the wife and now my son and will teach my daughter I. A few years. I’ve been upset with the damage to the shoulder but have never lost one. I like the behind the shoulder shot, but it can get into guts real fast.

I have shot many deer in the neck/head. For me it is a short range shot in field conditions. And Ive missed a few.

I dis agree with the yellow and what tt85 said.

If anything I would move 5he top middle and 1 o’clock down 1-1.5”. Jmo

Once important thing to remember about anatomy is the diaphragm is a rounded structure. yes a side profile of the lungs shows them straight, but we all know they are not, and they can go quite a ways forward with each breathing cycle and depending on status of the stomach it could be pushed forward quite a bit by bulk....I will attempt to draw that in to the pic above in relation to the red circle (of course it will be my rendition, but we all know what the diaphragm does and how it is shaped and how it starts at the base of the lungs upper and lower….i think i am being somewhat easy on this drawing as well as it could extend more to the right than i am showing at times).

8" to the left o that yellow dot ends up a solid gut shot with no lungs and that ends badly for all involved. Agree, we can not assume anything, and that is what Free is trying to ask, what is the target with the largest area of forgiveness....the yellow circle certainly allows a lot of room forward, but hardly any back. I do not know his purpose for this exercise, I know he has one, but he has not told us yet.

Assuming the shot is not totally way off like a leg shot or hoof shot....thats just plain silly. Do we see it sure. I have seen gut shot deer. Happened when a deer was quartering and the shot didn't; account for that. Not a fun track but we did find the deer with several helping eyes. Bad shots happen, but trying to maximize forgiveness is what this thread is about...I think....

Top 2 were 7mm08/120 BT's.....a killing machine. Bottom one 7mm08 140 AB.

Meat hunt..


Not a meat hunt.....(2 different bucks)

7mm-08 is magic.

Love that round

So do lotsa wimmens

I’m not sure how to address all this so I won’t. Your first sentence says enough.
No, “You can’t assume a shot will hit further back”, as you stated. That’s my whole point with the thread is that a shot could be off some in ANY direction so I want an aim point with the largest room for error and the yellow is half the size of red.

" . . . . No, “You can’t assume a shot will hit further back”, as you stated. That’s my whole point with the thread is that a shot could be off some in ANY direction so I want an aim point with the largest room for error and the yellow is half the size of red."

Don't think about what you don't want to happen and you will shoot better (ie: more consistently).

Agree, but that’s why I’m figuring out aim point AHEAD OF TIME, like now.

Stompy and Brother-in-law were both helpful by suggesting a slight change to red circle so I’ll play along.
They both thought the red was good but suggested the top and top right may not be a good place to hit.
Keep in mind I’m not suggesting you aim at the edges but will they kill if you hit there. So, if you want to avoid hitting there you need to move the aiming point down and to left a little. We still in same ballpark but it does create a smaller margin of error. I suggest the upper part of the circle is deadly. That scapula is not much to a quality hunting round and all else is spinal cord and high lung.
Pic to follow….

I probably should of started the thread with this diagram.
Can everybody agree the blue is pretty close to the main vitals??????

The shown aiming point allows for the largest margin of error and anywhere in the circle should be deadly.
If you moved the shot back 2” that’s a great spot too but to me it’s not as good.
The only reason to move it back would be if you shot a smaller, weaker caliber with a poorly constructed bullet and were afraid of the bone up front. Similar thinking to an archery shot but I don’t want to talk about that.

I'm with stompy and brother-in-law. I think you want it slightly left and a little down of your original red dot. Remember, if you're using quality ammo and within say 300 yards, the bullet is going to expand so violently inside the animal that the trauma is likely to clip part of the heart. By no means do you actually have to hit the heart in order to kill an animal, both lungs will do the trick. So if you're trying to maximize margin of error I would say hold slightly left of the green and red dots. You'll have ample room on either side that will lead to an ethical kill on the animal. In you're original photo you're risking a shot that's too far right and into the brisket.

Just my 2 cents there's a 100 ways this could be perceived.