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Re: Deer vitals-within a circle [Re: freerange] #9150064 12/07/24 08:09 PM
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Free, for pure broadside shots, the bottom yellow dots will not consistently kill a deer quickly and with a trail good enough to trail and put a second shot into.
Move the dots to the left on your pic about 3 inches and you are hitting structures that will make it so a deer is much more likely to die, give a decent trail, and die quickly.
I am not good with circles on pics, but in my opinion, your circle is too far forward and the dots border on a really bad shot to being a really bad shot (the lower ones).

Can anyone get lucky and have a bad shot end up lethal, absolutely. But i know most of us (i know you don’t) want to play that game.

Re: Deer vitals-within a circle [Re: freerange] #9150103 12/07/24 09:46 PM
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Your top two yellow dots probably hit spine. The rest hit nothing.

Re: Deer vitals-within a circle [Re: freerange] #9150105 12/07/24 09:49 PM
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My normal target area is pretty much Smokey Bear’s green circle. As someone mentioned, quartering shots require an adjusted aim.


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Re: Deer vitals-within a circle [Re: freerange] #9150126 12/07/24 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by freerange
There are lots of way different anatomy charts out there so a bunch have to be inaccurate. Some obviously are.
I’ve studied this a lot( that’s my normal) and the one I’ve found to be best is by Ryan Kirby. He’s an artist and bow hunter and y’all should look up his stuff. He’s starting to do short videos.
Along the same lines of this whole thread about identifying vitals, tell me if you think his drawing is accurate.
Feel free to draw a circle on it where all shots would be kill shots.
[Linked Image]


Depicts a Beautiful oval 😇

Does the circle change with bullet type scared


Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, b/c they know not victory nor defeat"- #26 TR
Re: Deer vitals-within a circle [Re: Smokey Bear] #9150219 12/08/24 12:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Smokey Bear
Here you go Free. Vitals are bigger than this but not round. If you want a circle with a hold point with equidistant margin for error on all sides, hold on the pink dot. Put it in the crease at the back of the shoulder about 1/3 of the way up. If I’m making what I consider a long shot, this is where I go. There is an area between the lungs and the high shoulder shot that is void of vitals.

Edit to add: on a mature buck that circle is almost the size of a paper plate.
[Linked Image]



Agree with everything on here except the void area comment. The high shoulder shot is a lung and spine shot that shocks the nervous system due to the proximity to the spinal column. There is no void between this shot and a good double lung shot. There literally is nothing in that space to create a void, its either lungs or spinal column.

I think where the idea of a void area comes from is the higher shoulder shot, above the spinal column and how that can be confused with the high shoulder shot. The good high shoulder shot is still more than a quarter to a third down into the body. A hit there will get spine and drop a deer. But, if you hit above that, then you are hitting backstrap and you may get lucky and have a spinous process twist and paralyze a deer, but a pure backstrap shot is not lethal. People hitting here will say they hit high shoulder, saying it went between the spine and the lung in the mythical void area, but really it hit above the spine above everything vital.

Just my opinion based on anatomy, and don’t want to derail this thread off topic.

Re: Deer vitals-within a circle [Re: Texas buckeye] #9150437 12/08/24 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Texas buckeye
Originally Posted by Smokey Bear
Here you go Free. Vitals are bigger than this but not round. If you want a circle with a hold point with equidistant margin for error on all sides, hold on the pink dot. Put it in the crease at the back of the shoulder about 1/3 of the way up. If I’m making what I consider a long shot, this is where I go. There is an area between the lungs and the high shoulder shot that is void of vitals.

Edit to add: on a mature buck that circle is almost the size of a paper plate.
[Linked Image]



Agree with everything on here except the void area comment. The high shoulder shot is a lung and spine shot that shocks the nervous system due to the proximity to the spinal column. There is no void between this shot and a good double lung shot. There literally is nothing in that space to create a void, its either lungs or spinal column.

I think where the idea of a void area comes from is the higher shoulder shot, above the spinal column and how that can be confused with the high shoulder shot. The good high shoulder shot is still more than a quarter to a third down into the body. A hit there will get spine and drop a deer. But, if you hit above that, then you are hitting backstrap and you may get lucky and have a spinous process twist and paralyze a deer, but a pure backstrap shot is not lethal. People hitting here will say they hit high shoulder, saying it went between the spine and the lung in the mythical void area, but really it hit above the spine above everything vital.

Just my opinion based on anatomy, and don’t want to derail this thread off topic.


There is a void under spine but it’s not meaning full behind shoulder bone, the meaning full one is past(left, and clear) of the shoulder bone. It’s more of an arrow issue then typically a bullet wound channel

This is why recommend bullets with a bigger wound channel. Increase the cone of damage increase the circle size.

With that said I can only think of two animal in last 10 years I didn’t kill with some variation of HSS.


Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, b/c they know not victory nor defeat"- #26 TR
Re: Deer vitals-within a circle [Re: freerange] #9150445 12/08/24 04:36 PM
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I’m working on a new thread. Similar but a little different from this one. I’m changing my circle some and changing my explanation some. Stay tuned.


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Re: Deer vitals-within a circle [Re: freerange] #9150452 12/08/24 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by freerange
I’m working on a new thread. Similar but a little different from this one. I’m changing my circle some and changing my explanation some. Stay tuned.


You need to tag out first grin


Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, b/c they know not victory nor defeat"- #26 TR
Re: Deer vitals-within a circle [Re: BOBO the Clown] #9150601 12/08/24 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted by Texas buckeye
Originally Posted by Smokey Bear
Here you go Free. Vitals are bigger than this but not round. If you want a circle with a hold point with equidistant margin for error on all sides, hold on the pink dot. Put it in the crease at the back of the shoulder about 1/3 of the way up. If I’m making what I consider a long shot, this is where I go. There is an area between the lungs and the high shoulder shot that is void of vitals.

Edit to add: on a mature buck that circle is almost the size of a paper plate.
[Linked Image]



Agree with everything on here except the void area comment. The high shoulder shot is a lung and spine shot that shocks the nervous system due to the proximity to the spinal column. There is no void between this shot and a good double lung shot. There literally is nothing in that space to create a void, its either lungs or spinal column.

I think where the idea of a void area comes from is the higher shoulder shot, above the spinal column and how that can be confused with the high shoulder shot. The good high shoulder shot is still more than a quarter to a third down into the body. A hit there will get spine and drop a deer. But, if you hit above that, then you are hitting backstrap and you may get lucky and have a spinous process twist and paralyze a deer, but a pure backstrap shot is not lethal. People hitting here will say they hit high shoulder, saying it went between the spine and the lung in the mythical void area, but really it hit above the spine above everything vital.

Just my opinion based on anatomy, and don’t want to derail this thread off topic.


There is a void under spine but it’s not meaning full behind shoulder bone, the meaning full one is past(left, and clear) of the shoulder bone. It’s more of an arrow issue then typically a bullet wound channel

This is why recommend bullets with a bigger wound channel. Increase the cone of damage increase the circle size.

With that said I can only think of two animal in last 10 years I didn’t kill with some variation of HSS.


BOBO, i am not catching what you are throwing here…care to give a better explanation?

Only doing this since Free checked out of this one and we can go off topic more.

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