I just watched the vote live. This is huge. Now for the Senate. With this much bipartisan support, I think we have a good chance of this getting done.

Today, in a 327-75 vote, the House passed the Social Security Fairness Act (H.R. 82), legislation that would repeal the Windfall Elimination Provision (WEP) and the Government Pension Offset (GPO)

Interesting..

I don't know what that means.

Wow!!!! If you got a gov pension and didnt pay into SS during your service years but had another job that did pay into SS your SS gets discounted. If you try to claim your spouse's SS you get hit also. It would be great if it actually happens. It has been talked about for years.

Soooooo.....you're saying that these people are entitled to MORE than what they actually contributed?

If it passes completely and gets signed it means I will get full SS benefits instead of it being reduced by about 75%. I remember in a TMRS retirement seminar when the SS guy started talking about WEP and GPO and put the chart up on how much it would reduce those pending retirees SS. Most had worked in other careers long enough to qualify for SS. Some much longer than they paid into a govt pension. The room was silent, but you could hear over 100 pencils and pens get slammed on tables. The majority had no idea that WEP and GPO even existed until that moment.

Lets say with my lifetime earnings where I paid SS taxes I am entitled to $1000 a month SS, but because I have a pension it gets knocked down to $500 a month. I would be penalized because I have a gov pension. I would be entitled to the same SS benefits as anyone else who contributed the same amount of money for the same amount of years if this passes. I hope this isn't confusing, it just eliminates the penalty.

I thought it was because they didn’t pay in to SS all those years.

Yup, teachers get the same deal. Retirment from Gov. and work during summer to get SS. Called double dipping. Non-Gov workers don't get it.

I guess that is my question; Is the payment calculated on JUST what was contributed and not age?
Fair enough I guess, but you shouldn't be able to teach your whole life, retire, then come back as a janitor for a semester and collect full SS.

I was watching. It’s a big deal for all those who paid into SS and get only a portion because of a pension. Most don’t even realize the penalty until is too late.

Windfall elimination provision.

A summertime job paying in to SS is hardly a career's worth of contributions. I guess my point is, they should not be equal payments.

My SS statement says is I should get 1200 a month at 62. I would actually get only 400-500.

Teacher pension ain’t that great. Say someone teaches 20 years, has a 2.3 percent multiplier. That’s 43 percent of 70k a year. That’s 30k a year. Plus get penalized/hosed if you contributed to SS.

There is a minimum salary every year to qualify. I think it’s around 30k this year.

If a teacher could make $30k a year working a summertime job, I have a feeling there would be less teachers.

It’s not really the summertime job. It’s usually a previous career or later career where they met the substantial earnings. Really don’t matter how they qualified for it.

That is my point. They can work 10 years contributing to SS, and draw the same $$ as someone who has contributed 35 years?

No. SS goes by years and earnings. 35 years pays more than 10

My wife earned 6 figures in the private sector for 15 plus years and now works for the a city and doesn’t pay into ss anymore. What’s any of this mean for her?

that makes more sense. Thank you

If your wife gets a SS statement and it says, hypothetically 2500 a month in SS. If she plans on taking a pension from the city. Cut that 2500 in half, right now. If it passes Senate she will get full 2500 and a pension she earned.

That would make sense if the SS amount is 3.5 times more for the person who paid in for 35 years vs. 10 years. Is that how it works?

No. SS has bend points

That she will get SS since she qualified for it before going to work for a municipality .

Would educators get spousal survivor benefits if their spouse dies?

I hope so, my wife is in IT and works for an ISD. She does not get summers off she works all year long so she can’t work the summers like the teachers do. She worked 10 years private sector before going to the school. If she doesn’t get my death benefits she’ll probably be screwed if I died before my retirement accounts mature over the next 20 years. She’ll be on TRS benefits which are a joke to begin with. Makes no sense she wouldn’t get what she worked for or what I paid in, just another way to screw the middle class.

I think they broke into two separate issues.
1. Windfall Elimination Provision
2. Government offset.

I haven’t followed government offset as closely.

I never made it 10 years. Anyone who wants to give me 10 years on a stable job that pays more than my current pm me.

This great news! My wife had a previous career for 15 years, and was going to school full time earning a BA and a masters degree. Then went into public schools. When she retired she should have received $1000 a month SS from her previous career, plus her TRS pension. Instead when applying for SS she was informed of the WEP and would only be receiving $495.
What a shock! This would be a great deal if it actually passes through Congress.

I've paid into Social Security, Federal Withholding, and Medicare since my first paycheck.

And also into my TMRS retirement account.

This is great, my wife worked for private software firm and paid into SS until she was 35. She then went into teaching. I paid into SS until I was 23. Started working as a freshman in high school and started paying in then. Not a lot but that was my money. I deserve something for it.

I think I get shafted too. 32 years of government service, Navy, Border Patrol, Customs. Later had 7 years as an EMT. I pay through the nose every year.

I'm already drawing mine with the penalty, it wasn't cut in half, maybe it is different now, but there was a limit on the amount you could be penalized, and it wasn't half. I don't know that much about it, maybe things are different now. I wonder if this would apply to those already drawing SS?

I only put 10 years in with an ISD and wouldn't be able to touch TRS without my SS taking a hit until I paid 30 years of SS. At 30 years of paying SS the WEP doesn't apply. This bill is a good thing and only levels the playing field.

Exactly. The WEP is about half, but the penalty can be reduced by every year you contribute to 30 years of qualified SS contributions. It’s pretty hard for most to get 30 years of SS contributions and qualify for a pension.

My wife is a retired teacher and this affects her. She could only get 1/2 of my S/S and they take that amount from her TRS retirement so the total amount she would get stays the exact same.
I have a friend whose wife never worked, they are both retired now and she is allowed to draw half of his. Something about this just doesn't seem fair, I worked and paid into S/S for 47 years. If I die before her, under the current rules she doesn't get a single penny for all the years I worked.

That is good. Some things changed, but it only applied to those who hired after 1983. I was hired before that and so was exempt from paying SS or Medicare my entire career. At the end of a 34 year career I was still not eligible for SS or Medicare when I retired. For those of us in that boat, the city would have paid for our Medicare B when reaching medicare age if we did not qualify from other earned income. I qualified myself through paying medicare and SS tax on my small business income to obtain the last of my 40 quarters.

This will not affect me as I retired with 30 SS credits and a small government pension. But as my wife is younger than I this could be benefit to her survivor benefits. I don't know if the SS plan can finically meet this obligation without a reducing other "obligation".

My wife retired after 42 years of service teaching, 38 in Texas and with the TRS pension. Due to the current laws, if I die before her, she does not get any spousal benefits from my SS. I've always thought that was wrong. Guess I will have to dig into this possible change in legislation and see if that is being addressed.

Survivor benefits shouldn't be affected by their profession. There are restrictions such as not getting remarried prior to their 60th birthday, and they are subject to the earnings penalty just like their own SS benefits. I'm in this situation right now. My fiancée and I have to wait until after my 60th birthday in March to get married so I can collect my deceased wife's SS, and I can't apply for them until I retire because my earnings while I'm working will completely wipe out what I would collect. Also, when I decide to start collecting my benefits, hers will just go away. Legalized theft.

Some of the Texas Reps who voted against it. Hunt, Moran,Roy, Crenshaw, Doggett and my rep Ken Self.


https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/2024456

I can't express my hatred in strong enough terms for Self. He is a disgusting little man.

I read some of that the other day and am still not sure what it means to me. 32 plus years with the government and probably 10 or less in the real world. Guess I'll find out soon enough.

When will the Senate vote on this bill?

The more I find out about Self, the more I dislike him. Crenshaw too.

From what I understand, it may be up to Schumer and he may delay it. Supposedly they have 60 Senators on board.

Good to know.

Patiently waiting.

I was waiting to see mid it made it to a senate vote. Looks like it will. Can’t stand Liz Warren, but she is consistent.

Wow, I didn't think they would vote on it. I figured they would skip town without dealing with it.

They are fighting for something to make this not look like how bad it really was.

Hopefully it passes.

Schumer says he has the democrats and needs 15 Republicans.

FYI, I sent an email to Senator Cornyn regarding the Social Security fairness act. He basically said he will not support it in the Senate because it will make Social Security go bankrupt..
How many years have we heard that but we can fund Ukraine and illegal aliens

People are living too long versus when SS was established. Used the crooked war money and "foreign aid" to fund those that are over 65 and choose to accept SS (or they can be paid off too), and the rest of every dollar paid in by any other living person should be paid back with interest. Thus ending SS. The govt can't run anything without being in the red....we need minimize their opportunities to fail.

Cornyn is Swamp. He needs to be out of office, and his Texas citizenship revoked.

That’s just wrong.

im lucky. 30 rears with a retirement plan and ss. It was never meant to pass. kinda like probable cause.

What happened?

I think the vote is next week. Cronyn and Cruz are against it.

I emailed Cronyn. Didn't get a response.

Senator John Cornyn III
Capitol Phone
(202) 224-2934
Capitol Fax
(202) 228-2856
District Phone
(713) 572-3337
Web Site
https://www.cornyn.senate.gov/
Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/SenJohnCornyn
X
http://www.twitter.com/JohnCornyn
YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/user/SenJohnCornyn


Senator Ted Cruz
Capitol Phone
(202) 224-5922
District Phone
(214) 599-8749
Web Site
https://www.cruz.senate.gov/
Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/SenatorTedCruz
X
http://www.twitter.com/SenTedCruz
YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/user/SenTedCruz

That post above says the cloture vote is today

Gov and school people have the same opportunity for benefits as private, why allow double dipping for Gov workers? No different than working and drawing SS, you don't get 'full' payment. So we should double the payment for Gov just because? Hey, take off the working penalty for the rest of us.

Hey, Doofas

We paid into Social Security, just like everyone else.

We also paid into a second and/ or third retirement accounts.

Since we paid in, we should get it back. Had I not paid into Social Security, that money would be worth at least 20X what is in the account right now. Because I would have invested it safely and wisely. But I was forced to pay in, just like every other tax payer.

Some are incredibly uneducated. My SS estimate is not much, maybe 1200 at 62. But it’s mine and I paid in and earned it. Giving the government 600 of it is not the answer.

Otherwise, the government would penalize everyone with a million bucks in their 401k. They don’t need the SS.

You’re kidding, right?

Using duffas logic. If he believes someone who fully contributed to SS and only draws half their benefit because of a small pension. What is to stop the government from denying SS benefits to those they consider “the rich”. They do it for everything else. Everything is income based. From college admissions, Obamacare, tax brackets.

I see. I was responding to your statement that someone with $1,000,000.00 in a 401k didn’t need SS. Some would say I don’t NEED ss. I’d like to make that decision myself. If all you had was $1,000,000.00, that’s not enough.

From this article it looks like the government can't pay us what they don't or won't have. We are spending, make that borrowing, double what we take in. Can you double your lifestyle right now with your present income? The government can keep mouse clicking Dollars out of thin air for so long. I think that Ponzi has already gone on many years longer than imaginable. China and Russia already quit buying our Treasuries, (loaning us money). A financial podcaster yesterday said we anticipate rolling over ten $Trillion$ in 2025. In order to sell that debt, borrow money, those Treasuries will likely have to bring a higher interest rate. The Feds can't control that. Treasuries are sold on the open market. Therefore the interest rate on the US debt will increase. This snowball just keeps getting bigger.

https://www.zerohedge.com/economics...s-budget-deficit-worst-start-year-record

Cornyn is a piece of antigun trash.

Yep, since we paid into SS then we should receive it, just like everyone else. It really is a very simple concept to understand.

I think the issue is more about how much you have paid in while working, versus those that have never NOT paid in.

Who are those that have never NOT paid in, and are they the ones trying to collect benefits?

I had a relative that was a career Teacher, not elgible for SS. He found a school district that had a scam going where teachers could come there and be hired as janitors. They paid a fee to the district. They would earn 1/4s so that they could get SS. This was long ago, and I don't recall enough of the details and he wasn't too eager to share info with me since he knew I though it was total horse shi--. He was shady as hell in every way. Anyone else heard of such a scam?

I draw SS and a government pension, but I had enough years paying into SS to be exempt from offset for me. I hustled earn enough private sector dollars to prevent the offset. I planned for Mrs LJ retirement knowing of the survivor offset. From my viewpoint the offset is not totally unjust.

But, in all fairness, if your income is garnished at 100% value your benifits should be 100%.

If you have 20 years of qualifying SS contributions you get 40 percent. If you have 25 years of substantial earnings you get 65 percent. Over 30 years of substantial earning contributions. You get 90 percent.

It’s generally pretty hard these days to qualify for a pension somewhere and get 30 years of qualifying SS contributions.

The simplest example is if a young lady wants to be a teacher and does 15 years. She will get 35 percent of say 75000. Her contributions to the pension will get her 26k at age 65.

She then wants to go in private sector for 20 years. She accumulate a 1500 a month SS benefit. She then realizes that 1500 is reduced to 600 a month, 60 percent penalty.

This is the opposite of my wife’s scenario, private sector first for 15 years, then public education for 27 years. Still a victim of the WEP penalty.

Got 73 Senate votes. Trumps support yesterday got some undecided.

We are very close.

Cornyn actually voted for it. Cruz did not.

I think JD Vance voting for it brought more republicans to the table.

What’s the latest word on this issue?

Cornyn's long response to me made it clear he did not support this bill. Cruz ignored me. Cruz may be cutting his own throat on this issue especially now that Trump is showing support for it. The voting block WEP and GPO effects is large and organized. They will never vote for Cruz again if this does not pass. I had wondered if Cornyn might change his mind if Trump came out for it. That and the last time I looked at his facebook page every unrelated post was getting blown up with comments supporting this bill.

This page says it continues this morning, but who knows. https://trta.org/senate-vote-on-h-r-82-now-scheduled-for-thursday-december-19/

[/quote]
Who are those that have never NOT paid in, and are they the ones trying to collect benefits?

I had a relative that was a career Teacher, not eligible for SS. He found a school district that had a scam going where teachers could come there and be hired as janitors. They paid a fee to the district. They would earn 1/4s so that they could get SS. This was long ago, and I don't recall enough of the details and he wasn't too eager to share info with me since he knew I though it was total horse shi--. He was shady as hell in every way. Anyone else heard of such a scam? [/quote]

I knew 2 teachers that did it (it was probably 10-15 years ago i think) and they had paid into SS for years before becoming teachers later in life and didn't realize how drawing TRS would effect their SS benefits from their spouse. It wasn't technically a "school district" scam, but from what i remember there were a few school districts in Texas that actually paid into social security, for whatever reason, and if you worked for and retired from them, then you could draw both (not sure how that worked). Someone figured out you could pay the school district to come work for them for a day and then retire and draw both...think there were actually a few colleges that did it as well. Seems like that was going on about the same time we started all the "retire/rehire" stuff but not sure... I'm sure they fixed that loophole pretty quick

I knew 2 teachers that did it (it was probably 10-15 years ago i think) and they had paid into SS for years before becoming teachers later in life and didn't realize how drawing TRS would effect their SS benefits from their spouse. It wasn't technically a "school district" scam, but from what i remember there were a few school districts in Texas that actually paid into social security, for whatever reason, and if you worked for and retired from them, then you could draw both (not sure how that worked). Someone figured out you could pay the school district to come work for them for a day and then retire and draw both...think there were actually a few colleges that did it as well. Seems like that was going on about the same time we started all the "retire/rehire" stuff but not sure... I'm sure they fixed that loophole pretty quick
[/quote]

That makes no sense.
Paying into a pension for one day is in no way going to allow someone to be vested into that kind of retirement system. A pension is basically an annuity funded by the amount of money the participant paid in during a career. Paying into SS one day will get no one SS either. Only those who contributed 40 quarters which would take at the least 10 years of contributing to SS to do same as anyone else. If they worked and paid their 40 quarters, they are only wanting the same benefits as anyone else that paid 40 quarters into SS. It is probably not as nefarious as your making it sound. It more likely is just people who are close to 40 quarters when they retire on a pension and obtain a job just long enough to cover the length of time required to obtain the additional quarters to bring them to 40.

Supposed to vote tonight. Cruz and Manchin trying to add amendments. Cruz argument was shallow, said it would make SS insolvent 6 months early. Don’t seem like a real time issue.


Republicans are all over the place.
For. Trump. Vance. Rubio. Scott. Cornyn. Several others.

Against. Cruz. Manchin (D), Romney.

I have 19 quarters paid in. Went to work for a school district at 22 yrs old 34 yrs and retired. No S.S had to piggyback off of my wife to get Medicare Ins and that cost $555 a quarter

I have been checking web to see if the vote comes up

Current vote

This sounds like motion to proceed. Before a debate and final vote.

My understanding the amendments such as what Cruz has introduced are an attempt to kill the bill. If an amendment is approved, the bill then has to go back to the house for another vote. There is no time for that so the bill would expire.

Cruz is definitely trying to sabotage it. He wants his bill from 2017 introduced. Today’s vote got 73 votes, the same as before. His speech got nowhere.

Evidently Texas needs both senators replaced.

Yes, both need to be replaced


Dear John:

Thank you for contacting me with your suggestions regarding efforts to repeal the Government Pension Offset (GPO) and the Windfall Elimination Provision (WEP). I recognize the time and effort that you are dedicating to actively participate in the democratic process, and I appreciate having the benefit of your comments on this matter.

As a strong supporter of Social Security, I understand the impact both the GPO and the WEP have on educators, police officers, firefighters, and other public employees who have dedicated their lives to public service. Millions of retired Americans have worked many years and contributed their hard-earned money with the expectation Social Security will be available when they retire. They depend on Social Security to help pay their monthly expenses, and the federal government should live up to its obligations.

In the 116th Congress, I cosponsored the Equal Treatment of Public Servants Act (S. 3401), introduced by Senator Ted Cruz (R-TX) on March 5, 2020. S. 3401 would have phased in a new funding formula for determining benefit amounts under the WEP. This new formula adjusts an individual's total lifetime earnings based on the proportion of those earnings subject to Social Security payroll taxes, and would have applied to individuals who became eligible for Social Security benefits in 2022 or later. Individuals becoming eligible between 2022 and 2060 would receive the higher of their benefit under either the current-law WEP or the new formula. According to the Social Security Office of the Chief Actuary, this legislation would have no significant effect on the long-range actuarial balance of the Social Security Trust Fund. Unfortunately, this bill did not pass, but please know that I will keep your thoughts in mind should this legislation be reintroduced.

Without Congressional action, the impending retirement of the Baby Boomer generation and other demographic factors will bankrupt the Social Security Trust Fund in the near future. The Social Security and Medicare Boards of Trustees' 2024 Annual Report shows the programs face massive permanent cash-flow deficits and will continue to grow substantially faster than the economy over the foreseeable future. For example, the Social Security Trust Fund, which covers benefits to retirees, workers' survivors, and people with disabilities, will be able to pay full benefits only until 2033.

Given these challenges, comprehensive Social Security reform is necessary. Therefore, repealing the GPO and WEP should be considered in the context of a complete and fundamental overhaul of the current system. Simply repealing these two provisions without comprehensive, meaningful reform would further damage the long-term solvency of Social Security. The Congressional Budget Office projects that eliminating the GPO and WEP without making other changes to the program would cost over $196 billion over the next ten years and increase the Social Security Trust Fund deficit by more than four percent. This would make it more difficult for America to deal with the ongoing retirement of the Baby Boomer generation. I will continue to support proposals improving Social Security benefits received by Social Security participants in a fiscally responsible way and without placing additional burdens on future generations.

I am honored to represent Texas in the United States Senate. Thank you for taking the time to contact me.

Sincerely,
JOHN CORNYN
United States Senator

517 Hart Senate Office Building
Washington, DC 20510
Tel: (202) 224-2934
Fax: (202) 228-2856
http://www.cornyn.senate.gov

Cornyn did vote for it.

I just read it needs to clear 2 more votes

In the Senate there has not been a vote for or against the bill yet. Only for cloture and then Motion to Proceed. We can only hope his yea vote for both indicates a change of heart. We shall see when it comes time to vote down the amendments and the final vote.

If you have not sent Cornyn an email encouraging him to vote for the bill, please do so now. Do let us know if the boilerplate response has changed this time. His reply to me was on the morning of Friday the 13th. I sent both an email generated through the IAFF and a direct email on the evening of the 12th.
https://www.cornyn.senate.gov/share-opinion/
https://www.votervoice.net/iframes/IAFF/Campaigns/119731/Respond

I sent Cornyn one. Did not get a response.
Cornyn was getting called out for have 3 government pensions and a federal paycheck. Maybe he didn’t need the attention.

I sent one to my house Rep. K self. He’s a coward too. I did get a long denial reason.

What was the benefit to paying in? What is the downside to not paying in?

Before I say this let me first state that I am a Republican and I vote Republican,,,,


but don't count on any Texas Republican to do anything that would benefit the people who work in public education. It goes against their message.

Had I been given the choice, I would not have paid in the social security. As is the case with every topic, the private sector does a better job at everything than government does. I would have invested the money somewhere that it would have grown much more.

There would be no down side to not paying in.

The biggest example is the lady who wants to be a teacher. Pays into pension but no SS. Leaves after 15 years and decides teaching isn’t for her. Accumulating at 1100 dollar a month pension she can draw at age 65.

Goes to private sector and has to pay into SS for 20 years, not an option.

She decides to retire and has no idea the government is about to take 1200 of her earned SS because she has a pension from teaching. Essentially punished for those years of teaching.

And I never understood the purpose, the same lady could have skipped teaching, the community would have been the loser, she could have just worked the twenty years, waited until social security age, and not been penalized...makes No sense, you have to earn the minimum credit to get any Social Security so why the need?

Yes, and the government is still calling Social Security Pension an entitlement, yet a third grader could have invested the same money more wisely than our government.

Cruz said he wasn’t going to sell “granny down the River” for this bill. He’s too dumb to realize he and the government has been screwing the granny teacher everyday for 40 years.

Rand Paul has now added amendments.

I’m no SS expert.

Some have suggested removing the income cap of 168k up to 500k which would fix SS for another 50 years.

In 2001, I probably could have bought one acre in Melissa, for $15,000.

I'd be selling that acre for $1-1.5 million this year.

Yes, my wife and I have bought and sold numerous properties for just that very reason...land is something no longer made, at least not in America.

Hind sight is 20/20 and I’m butt deep in it. Would have, could have, should have.

The stock market hasn’t treated me nearly as well as Texas real estate. Of course, inflation, expenses and annual taxes all have to be considered. Then, if and when I sell the real estate, I have to pay taxes on the gain.

Yes, Uncle Sam always gets his part...but investment wise for an old penny pincher like me, real estate is hard to beat in my opinion.

At the moment they are voting on Rand Pauls amendment to H.R.82 that would raise the SS age to 70. I think there are 5 more amendments to vote on before it goes to a final vote.

Thanks for the update!
At what year born would the 70 yo be effective?

Looks like another few hours before they are done. Good thing there is a game on

Don't matter. It has already failed. I don't think any of the amendments will get voted in.

Geez! Three of those amendments are all from Rand Paul. His intent is obviously just to be PIA for everyone involved.

Live feed for anyone paying attention.
https://www.senate.gov/legislative/floor_activity_pail.htm

Think they need to vote down Cruz amendment. Rand Paul and Cruz kept this thing going late into night.

Looks like Cruz one was voted down. I am shocked this might be happening.

Cruz overseeing things. 😂

62. Cruz shot down.

Think they have to hear Grasserly next.