5th Circuit - https://www.ca5.uscourts.gov/opinions/pub/22/22-50915-CV0.pdf

District Court - https://casetext.com/case/grisham-v-valenciano-1
Oral Argument - https://www.ca5.uscourts.gov/OralArgRecordings/22/22-50915_10-3-2023.mp3

Related video:

The Officers could have handled the situation better. The 2A activists could have handled the situation better.

I doubt many (if any) will devote the time to listen to the oral arguments, but it is well worth it.

Important not to accept that one side or the other 'could have handled the situation better'. Nothing changes if these things are not hashed out.

At the time of this occurrence the City of Olmos Park had in place an 'Ordinance' prohibiting the open carry of a loaded firearm.

That was very much in conflict with State Law and was later repealed.

But what it tells me...is that the city (officials) were hostile to the idea of openly carrying a long gun (loaded, or probably otherwise) to begin with.

This invites confrontation of an otherwise legal practice. All charges against the two individuals 'carrying' were dropped of course. Another thing that is telling.

Legal, but otherwise 2 F'ing stupid people. I get tired of the pro open carry people doing something that is NEVER going to do or make anything their doing positive. I could go into walmart and start showing shoppers my new glock , but would that be smart?

just because its legal, can also be stupid

Yep. The first person the bank robber is going to pop in the dome is the open carry nerd.

saw an idiot in wal mart recently that had his 45 on one hip and a large fixed blade on the other.

his right to do it but a total moron move imo.

This sort of thing should be no more noticeable or remarkable as someone wearing shoes. I used to go to AZ a lot to hunt as a teen and nearly every man at every grocery store had a gun on their hip. Parts of New Mexico used to be the same until the blues moved there and ruined the place.

I do open carry sometimes, but do so when wearing more professional clothing - like a suit for instance, or at least jeans, boots, and a blazer. Attire makes a big difference in the perceptions of non-citizens when they see someone wearing a gun. Also make a difference whether you're wearing a holstered sidearm, or have on a tacticool belt with every possible accoutrement you can load onto it.

My attitude about the hypothetical bank robber shooting me first is that a) he has to SEE me wearing the gun before he starts his intended crime, and b) having seen me, he has to decide whether he's going to be able to stop me before I can shoot him. I honestly think that most criminals are such brazen cowards that they'll turn and leave if they see an armed citizen rather than attempting to win an even gunfight.

colorado was open carry when I was guiding, a lot of folks carried in durango/pagosa but this was back in the early 80s.

the dude in wal mart was "show carrying" was what it looked like to me. wal mart in paris gets some good ones.

Zeek - interesting that banks used to have armed guards but then stopped. Rational was - 'no guns, no probable fire fight in the bank'. Basic liability thinking and they just write off cash losses. Same with gun-free zones - interesting, law is there to be able to prosecute, kinda a catch-all. But if the gun is used, they can prosecute anyway. Silly law makers covering their rears (liability again).

Every law enforcement friend I have say openly carrying is a foolish thing to do.

Be the Grey Man, and keep the weapons concealed.

^^^This

Agree be the grey man.

Agree be the grey man.

I can see both sides of this argument, but in the end I think it would be most beneficial if the public at large become accustomed to seeing guns openly carried without witnessing the bloodbath the anti-gun nazis claim is inevitable.

I've lived in PA for nearly 50 years. Open carry has been legal here for longer than that. I cannot begin to tell you how big a deal this is NOT. Personally I only see open carry about once a year. It is a non starter. Nobody cares. Well.... I restate that. If you don't look like you are threatening people, nobody cares. Much like constitutional carry the end of the world claims are just hot air. And yes, stupid stuff happens. Stupid stuff is all around us with everything and you can't outlaw stupid.

Personally I do not see the benefit to open carry but that is a choice a free man gets to make.

I'm good with it.

Those two look exactly like the types that would start a mass shooting. Yeah, I know assumptions and all, but assumptions keep us safe.

Back in the day, our office building had a bank on the first floor, you had to walk through the lobby to get to the stairs or elevator. We were plain clothes, the bank guards knew us, we did not open carry anywhere. I still carry, but it's not showing the world. I don't even wanna be the grey man. I wanna be the guy that looks so ordinary that people don't even notice or see me.

That is the contextual definition of being "the gray man".

Excuse me....but don't most LEO 'Openly Carry'?

Absolutely not off duty. It serves no purpose to open carry unless the person is in a uniform and it’s obvious that they would be armed. The best advantage in a gunfight is nobody knowing that you have a gun.

The best advantage is to assume everyone has a gun. By the time you're in a 'gunfight' everyone knows who is armed.....right?