Thinking about my next rifle and looking at the reloading manual.

I want a rifle to shoot the Barnes LRX 160 gr .284 bullet, seems like a great hunting bullet. I want to be over 2,800 fps, so my 7-08 is out.

If I stay around a 160 gr bullet, there doesn't seem to be much difference between the .280 Remington and a 7mm Rem Mag. The 7mm PRC can push a .284 160 gr bullet over 3,000 fps, but its 10-15gr more powder and I'm sure more recoil.

What do y'all think?

For the 160 LRX, you'll need an 8" twist barrel. There's a big difference between the 280 Rem and 7 Mag. About 68 grains of water capacity to 82 grains on the 7 Mag, so quite a big difference. I don't see the 160 LRX reaching 2800 fps in a 280 Rem. The 160 LRX is a LONG and skinny bullet, and will need to be seated deep into the case. If you have room in the magazine to seat it out long, this will help. But, you need good velocity to open up those X bullets. I have played with both the Hornady 160 grain CX and the Barnes LRX in a 280 AI, and had magazine (short mag box) and bullet seating issues. You may need to plan that out.

The 7 PRC and the 7 Rem Mag are almost identical in performance. They hold almost the same capacity, but the 7 PRC is slightly more efficient case design. The speeds I am seeing are almost the same as the 7 Mag with the same weight bullets. I've even had some 7 PRC rifles not reach the desired velocity we planned for before reaching pressure. I'm also seeing many 7 PRC rifles with short barrels shooting suppressed, and still wanting the high speeds.

Are you building a rifle or buying something off the shelf?

7mm-08 Ackley Improved will make the velocity you want, but it will require a 24" barrel.

.280 Ackley Improved will make the velocity you want. And you can go with a little bit shorter barrel.

I'm not seeing 7mm PRC making the same velocities as 7 Rem Mag. It's still a great cartridge, though.

Really good input, thanks fellas!

I might do a semi-custom with a Tikka action. I’m leaning that way because I have 2 other Tikka and if I buy a chassis, I could use it across all my Tikka rifles. It sounds like I can’t go with an off the shelf Tikka 7mm REM Mag because it’s a 1:9 twist.

So I could rebarrel the Tikka into a 7mm PRC, but could I have issues with the smaller COAL of the Tikka action?

If you bought a Tikka in .300 Win Mag or 7 Rem Mag, and rebarreled for 7 PRC, you're going to gain room in the magazine.

The brass length:

7 PRC 2.280"
7 Rem Mag 2.500"

You can request a custom free bore with some gunsmiths. (I have zero free bore reamers, and cut the throats myself) That way the bullet seating depth can be what is necessary to fit in the magazine, and the throat is cut to match.

Also, Red Snake bottom metal is a Tikka foot print. Red moved the back of the magazine rearward to give more room for cartridge length.

Nice that’s good to know. Thank you Sir!

If I was building a rifle around that bullet I’d want more than 2800 fps mv.

You can easily launch a 160 accubond 3100fps with a good dose of Retumbo in your 7mag. The results are predictable and deadly.

What will 2800 fps not do?

That 7 PRC 20" I just built is shooting a 175 gr at 2725 fps.

It's ran out to 800 yards with zero trouble. It's already filled several coolers. It is super sonic, in current conditions, to 1475 yards.

There's plenty of 300 Win Mags shooting 200 gr bullets +/- 2800 fps. And they've killed piles of elk and Moose.

Nothing against the velocity till paired with a mono metal bullet.

I don't use them, so I don't consider them.

The LRX bullet is designed to expand at a minimum 1600 FPS. A ballistic calculator will show that a MV of 2800 FPS will be 1620 FPS at 900 yards, with a 160gr LRX. At 500 yards it is still above 2000FPS, I do not understand what more you would want.

I don’t trust the minimums with mono metal. I believe they shine with excess velocity. But he isn’t me and can do as he pleases.

Monos would be my last choice.

Now i'm curious, if NOT a mono bullet then what bullet for hunting?

Let's say this example of 7mm 160ish-gr @2800fps. Since it's being compared to mono bullets, which are usually fairly pricey, then please do not consider cost.

Final question, is something like Berger Hunting bullets good on game performance?

Yes IMO, best 7mm under 3000 @ muzzle is 175 EOL and from there if you want more splashy 175eldx or less splashy go thicker 180 hybrid,

Mono’s have a very narrow wound channel, they are better at higher impact speeds as they need high rpm’s to really expand that wound channel. They absolutely will kill but the lower the velocity the narrower the wound channel..

Often, Berger and Hornady ELD-X perform well on game when you run them heavy for cartridge. I load those two bullets the most. In .280 A.I. I've loaded 175 ELD-X with great feedback and 168 Berger VLD-Hunting, and 168 Berger Classic Hunter with great feedback. In .280 A.I. they are well north of 2800 fps, usually closer to 2900 fps or greater.

One extra step needed for a Berger bullet is to run a .040" drill bit into the hollow point of the bullet. The nose can get accidentally closed while they make the bullets. And I have felt what I presume to be lead dust inside the supposed to be hollow cavity, get removed by the drill bit.

I make the complete loaded ammo, and then put the drill bit in the drill press. Leave the chuck up in the drill press and pass the bullet into the bit from underneath, lifting the ammo up into the bit. You will feel the bit bottom out at the bottom of the cavity. 50 rounds takes less than 5 minutes.

I load 162 ELD-X in my 17" 7mm-08 A.I. MV of 2640 fps. On 100 to 250 yard whitetail it makes a 1 1/2" exit, passing through both lungs. And it will target shoot the entire length of my range with ease. The farthest I've ran that bullet was in a friend's 7mm-08 A.I. with a 24" barrel and we were on a fire forming load. So it was actually just 7mm-08 velocity at the time, 2700 fps. We hit steel out to 1400 yards with it.

There is NO WAY a solid is expanding at 1600 fps. I've seen MANY TTSX and TSX solid copper bullets not expand well above 2000+ fps. IMO, if you "have" to shoot solid copper Lehigh makes a very good copper bullet. There Controlled Chaos is the most amazing solid bullet I have seen yet, including compared to lead. We've hunted and killed MANY coyotes and pigs night hunting, and the Controlled Chaos has by far the most effective and quick kills. It also has the loudest "thud" when it hits an animal. Stuff just drops in it's tracks with that bullet.

I'm not a fan of the Barnes solid copper bullets, unless you push them fast. Fast, meaning, drop down at least 20-30 grains from normal, common caliber weight and bump up your speed in that round. This will help with expansion. But IMO, the TTSX and LRX are not a good "hunting" bullet for longer range shots. They simply lack the ability to expand at the lower impact velocities at longer range.

Out of 60+ African plains game I killed with a 7mm 160 Accubond, 3100fps at the muzzle, these are the only 5 ever "caught" in an animal, up through and including blue wildebeest sized game. I intentionally shot through low shoulder attempting heart shots, impacts were from 100-160 yards. You'd be hard pressed to find a better performing hunting bullet IMO.



Here's a mature, 180lb TX Panhandle whitetail doe, 7mm 168 VLDH, 100 yard impact, behind shoulder entry. This isn't my idea of good bullet performance, and they were equally as bad on about 20 feral hogs.

That’s beautiful, perfect wound cavity, mass organ destruction.


Mean while here is a really hot TTSX 80gr impact velocity between 3200-3500 +- 100 yards. Notice the difference in trama/wound channel, that wound is going to be exponentially smaller the lower the impact velocity

Run Bergers heavy for cartridge to slow them down. Slow them down because of the heavy bullet and/or a farther shot. And the results are good.

Thanks for all the input!

Looks like hitting 2,800 fps with the right 7mm bullet produces great results.

With that in mind, would a 7 SAUM or 7 WSM fit the bill if I wanted to stay with a short action? The 7 Sherman Short looks awesome, but getting brass looks challenging.

Trying to squeeze long hi bc bullets into a shorter action can complicate things. Personally I would go with a long action on any of those if the intent is for long heavy bullets. Keep the bullet from filling your gas tank.

Don't know about you, but I've never been able to dictate what distance I kill stuff at.

Barnes claims that the 139gr .284 LRX will expand 1.7x at 1400FPS and 2x at 1600FPS, it was designed for long range hunting and to expand at low velocities. My understanding is not all LRX bullets use the same data for expansion as the 160gr needs 1600FPS. I have no desire to use the bullet, but thought the information was interesting.

The only way to know is to test it yourself. Between the embellished results manufacturers claim, paid media, and internet experts, it is hard to get the truth.

Agree. Monos are getting better and better. Somehow Barnes can make a low velocity expanding bullet for a 300 Blackout. Maybe they can make an LRX that expands at low velocity as well.

7 SAUM brass is impossible to find.

See if you can find 7 WSM.

Not correct.

I've got ammo getting picked up tomorrow. 7 SAUM with a 180 gr Berger.

It shoots tight and much faster than I expected. He brought me the brass that took him forever to find.

It cycled from the magazine with no problems.

Just a data point for the argument, 7-08 AI, 166 A-Tip, 24” barrel, 2750 fps with 42.85g Varget.

Not enough case there to seat a super long bullet and stay in the magazine. Maybe with Staball.

What’s not correct lol.

"Trying to squeeze long high BC bullets into a shorter action can complicate things".

Not correct.

^^^^Exactly!!
I always think this but never comment about it. Thanks for helping me out.
Does anyone change bullets real quick based on distance??
I just want to shoulder rifle and put the one big crosshairs right on em and squeeze. KISS

So it can’t? Or it didn’t in your example? It has for many.

This is not one isolated example. I've seen the same positive outcome across many short action combinations.

Load to mag length if necessary.

But the O.P. is talking about having a rifle built. In that case, there's not a problem with long high BC bullets being loaded in short mag cartridges. As long as the builder knows what he's doing.

Yeah it works fine but mine would work better with more mag room. I’m sure there are other ways around it than a long action but many go that way. What I said is still in no way incorrect.

Please don’t bash the non reloader here.

As an owner of two 280 Remingtons, Browning A-bolt Medallion and Ruger M77 Mark II, I will say that I chose mine because they are an excellent alternative to the magnum recoil associated with the then 7mm Magnum. Today even with multiple choices in that caliber range I would still choose the 280 or maybe possibly the 280 AI for a new purchase or build for hunting anything in North America except brown/grizzly bears and for extreme long range shooting.

I get wanting a one piece bullet. But why not choose a tried and true hunting bullet like a Nosler Partition or a Nosler Accubond? I realize they aren’t sexy or new but both perform well in both of my 280s.

Sorry for loving Nosler …

Just my 2 cents.
Big Hutch

I don’t have problems with bergers or any other cup and core bullet close. In bergers I’ve used 115 to 215gr. I killed a buck last year at 25 feet(we rattled him in). Most elk aren’t even 20” from outside shoulder to shoulder which makes most deer less then 16”. My shots are pretty much only high shoulder shots or neck/shoulder crease. I was dropping deer last year with a 77gr TMK from 30-250 yards last year zero issue.

I always see a picture of a dead deer with no lungs left and someone’s mad because they think their bullet failed….. failed to do what, retain 80% of its weight? Its lungs are shredded, it’s dead and you found it. If one wants it to drop where it stood, they need to pick better shot placement

All the partition fans don’t realize that front of the partition is built to act like a cup and core bullet, and retain the back 60% like a FMJ, that back FMJ is basically a wound channel similar to a field point arrow.

I don’t think with today’s modern bullet technology and metal combo there is an issue. Shot what your gun likes is way more important. If there is an issue it’s because some one spun a bullet so fast it shed it’s jacket, not to many people on here pushing bullets over 3600 ft/sec so it’s really not an issue.

When people say on cup and core go big as you can, it’s because it increases, BC, sectional density, and surface area when it opens up

If you gun likes them and you like the on game results shoot them.

I think partition fans understand that perfectly. That is what makes them great.

Bobo, your comment after quoting me didnt seem to apply very directly to my comment but Ill address your "shredded lung" comment.
Most anyone would be Ok with bullet performance that resulted in shredded lungs. I think when someone comments about that they ultimately mean a bullet that does that "might do that too early" and never make it to the vitals. Yes, good results on that one but maybe not the next one. I want one that holds together enough to get into where it counts and I dont want to have to worry about how fast or how far etc. Most consistent performance across all possible situations is what I want.
I dont know enough about various bullets to say which bullets may or may not do that so if yours does then great.

Vast majority don’t, also why they are second only to monolithic on small wound channel at low velocity, but if a person never pushes them that far, then there is no problem nor would they know there is one at low impact speeds

No not directed at you, I don’t think you have ever posted a picture of lungs or any bullet performance . Only thing I was rebutting in general was I have zero yard restrictions in reference to being to close. I have zero fear of a bullet exploding and not making it to vitals. A messy wound channel is a big wound channel it is not a bullet failure as some hypothesis

I guess better way to put it is there isn’t a 7mm bullet that won’t go 3”-4” through a shoulder to chest cavity or 1” through rib cab to get to lungs, but there are bullets designed to cause less damage and smaller wound channels

In my book, if a bullet performs as it was designed, it's not a failure. It's up to the trigger puller to use the right bullet for the job at hand. The fact is the Nosler partition was a brilliantly designed bullet over 60 years ago and remains so today. IME is is the most consistent performer (along with the accubond) of any hunting bullet ever made. Often times the accubond is a bit easier to get accuracy though. As Bobo described, it consistently sheds 30-35% of it's weight, leaving the back "partition" in place to aid bullet penetration, which is also consistently does. Other manufacturers took note and immediately began trying to copy the design, and have been playing catch up ever since. I consider an accubond to pretty much be a "tipped partition" since it basically performs exactly the same, but is an ever so slightly better penetrator.

I couldn't care less what bullet a guy uses, but I do know what I like, and most importantly, why.

I have a new Browning rifle. A Xbolt Speed Long Range 280AI 1@8 26-inch barrel. I have several different bullets try.
Hornady
ELD X 162 175 gr
ELD M 162 180 gr
SST 139 gr
Berger 140 168 180 gr VLD hunting
Berger 150 168 gr Classic Hunter
Nosler Accubond LR 150 168 gr

I am hoping the Berger 168 gr Classic Hunter. Will work out well.

That’s why I shoot partitions. Unless I am fighting for my life I will never take a shot where the velocity of my 280 will be low enough for that to be an issue. For my skills shooting a rifle and my hunting set up, a 300 yard shot would be a long range shot.


Jgraider, excellent points about Noslers. Especially other manufacturers still playing catch up.

V master, good luck on finding what performs best in your rifle. That should be a sweet setup.

Just my 2 cents.
Big Hutch

Pick the 168 Classic Hunter and do a load development. If it's not shooting like you want, it's not on the right recipe or you are a bad shooter. There is no need in "trying" all those other bullets.

Varmint master, I can’t say which bullet is right for you, but if I had that many I was considering I would lose my mind before I started. I would pick my ideal one and try to make it shoot to your liking. If it does, you’re done, if not pick the next one.


That’s just me, I tinker too much with one bullet, I don’t think I could handle it.

A word on the 7MM RM. There are lots of good factory loads out there for it. It's usual factory twist of 9 to 9.5 inches works just fine with most bullets excepting the 175 gr. and 180 grain really long match style hunting bullets. I bought one from a member here this spring and after bedding it I started working up a load. I got stellar accuracy at 2820 fps using the 162 grain ELDX using I4350. Recoil is mild and the rifle is actually lighter than my 280AI. Looking at what JBM says this is capable of, how flat it shoots I decided to use it as is. A planned out of state Black bear hunt had to be canceled and I seriously doubt I will get a shot at a hog or a Whitetail at more than 300 yards much less 400 yards. I can save my H1000 powder for next year.