We leased a ranch out in Utopia that was a couple thousand acres. 14 guys on the lease.

Most guys would shoot their buck on opening weekend, typically a 2 year old 8 point. No does were allowed to be shot per the landowner.

DIng Ding DIng Ding DIng Ding DIng Ding! We have a winner! I'm in Navarro county, and we have 250 acres. A few neighbors are the same size, and quite a few 20-50 acre neighbors. I am about tired of letting that 130 inch 3.5 year old walk to never see him again.

Yep.

And who are you to say what is the "right" deer for someone other than you?

If people were responsible we wouldn’t have AR’s.

We have 14” 8 points instead of 6 points, whatever good that does anybody. I agree with everyone on the smaller tracts, but as long as 3 hunters can all take a 13” plus buck on the same 12 acres, next door to two more 12 acre tracts, ar s aren’t going to do much. But landowner/acreage/survey distributed tags will decrease overall hunter participation. Pick your battles I guess

Unfortunately it’s not up to me, but in many areas the state dictates the “right” deer is one that has a 13” inside spread or greater….

When those same hunters run out of 14 inch 8’s they will kill sub 13 inch 8’s 6’s 4’s etc. AR’s prevent that. Youth still gets legal bucks and does. I think that’s fair.

Ok guys I’ve hunted the big thicket national park for most of my life even before it was a national park , I am an accomplished hunter,reloader and I about halfway agree with the 13 inch rule. You see the problem is a lot of the bigger older bucks have tall narrow racks. I have personally killed several good bucks with very heavy tall antlers that were in today’s terms illegal even six year bucks so what do we do let pass so they can mate and make more tall narrow bucks that we can’t shoot even a big old mature buck. BUT we can shoot a little spike or 3 point so how smart is that. Ok I’ll quit

Swords cut two ways and there are issues with just about anything designed to somehow provide a positive result. In this case, AR is flawed, but does have its merits. Maybe somone can come up with a better soluton. I don't think I have heard it yet.

But how many deer have you killed that were over 13”? I think most experienced hunters have killed a mature deer that was less than 13” inside. I’ve killed one or two. But it’s not the rule it’s the exception.

And there is so much other factors that come into play genetically it’s not gonna skew the herd to narrow racked bucks anymore than it already was

I believe times have changed since the majority of counties that have AR rules were implemented. I for one believe 2 months for a deer season is too long. I believe there should maybe be a minimum acreage rule for deer hunting. Maybe make hunting really hunting and have no more baiting. I don't know that was just a couple of ideas that popped up. I border 2 places on one side where I used to run cattle. They totaled a little over 300 acres. One of them hunted one person a couple of times a year. The other also only had one hunter. They were sold and split up into from 15 to 30 acre or more acre places. Now I have no idea how many are hunting these places. Where I used to see an abundance of deer driving next to that side, I very seldom see even one. So, what would the solution there that would satisfy all involved?

Your best effort is to further limit participation?

I did not say that. You tell me what the best way is that does not piss off hunters. You have AR's that in my opinion probably ups the number of deer in certain areas. But I really think in the long term it is reducing the quality of the herd. I know from personal experience that taking the best breeders every year and leaving the ones that will never be over 13 inches in time will bite you in the butt.

Spot on comment. Thinking here the quality of the remaining, older breeders is out weighed by having some older breeders, albeit with lower antler quality

Although some may not like it, the native deer are a public resource that all property owners manage/don’t. To manage some deer need to be removed some do not. Some manage for different things max antler or max deer sightings. Some will do their best to do what they should some will not shoot anything and some will shoot way more than they should. Managing a public asset that depends on private property and decisions sounds like an impossibility. Only thing I can think of is if every property was HF then every property owner would have to live by their own choices. That’s not feasible at all though, nor would I want it.

I do not think AR’s are perfect. I do think in every area I have seen the before and after there has been a marked improvement after their implementation in what I am looking for in hunting. I simply do not believe all the sightings of narrow deer taking over. A study on average spread of deer taken in ar vs non ar county would be interesting.

Weren't AR's set in place to actually allow some bucks to attain an age where their antlers could grow to be in excess of the spread requirement? Thinking without said AR, deer didn't get a much of a chance attain that age,

I think the reason that the narrow rack argument is so prevalent is that those narrow rack deer are the only ones that get past about age 3 or 4. Perception is that there are so many more of them, when you are just seeing the same few year after year.

Common sense tells you that would be a lope sided survey. Only deer with more than 13 inches to be counted in AR counties and bucks from 3.5" and up from non-AR counties. To get real numbers you would only count bucks with a more than 13 inch spread in non-AR counties and get those averages. Now that would be interesting, and I think I know which counties would win.

I may try something this year. I have numerous narrow antlered bucks. I normally get $100 per point. What I may do is charge $100 per point for any buck under 13" and $125 per point for those over 13". See if folks are willing to pay for a wider buck.

If the limit on deer is X then what does it matter if the season is two months or two weeks? Spreading it out reduces pressure.

There is a minimum acreage now in most counties, and I don’t like small tracts either, but if you have 10-10 acre tracts that each shoot one deer the total harvest amount is the same as if you have a 100 acre tract shooting 10 deer a year. I sold a ranch in Fredericksburg that was a section that in the 80’s and 90’s they day hunted it and would kill 70-80 deer a year, every year.

The baiting issue is a touchy issues with some but if we did not feed wildlife populations would plummet

The limit on deer is per person. there is not a limit on how many can be taken per property. If spreading out the season to two months reduces the pressure on deer, why do most states have way shorter seasons? Feeding wildlife and baiting are two completely different things.

No other state has 5.5 million deer living within it’s boundaries

We can support a longer season and liberal bag limits that other places can’t.

And plenty of other states have longer deer seasons than we do.

Arkansas bow season opens September 28th and ends February 28th

Very good point, Uncle. Ive never thought about that but I dont ever really think about ARs until these threads keep coming up.
We hunt a lot of country and along with our large neighbors kill very few deer. We have a lot of mature bucks every year but Im not sure Ive ever seen a mature deer under the AR limits(I know they exist.)

Not unusual for me to see a mature deer that looks to be right at 13"...maybe 12.5", maybe 13.5". I'll usually see him year after year until he finally disappears. On the other hand, I'll see lots of 3 year old 8 and 10 point deer that are 15, 16+ inches wide and not very tall. Most of those guys never see 4 years old.