|
Forums46
Topics548,501
Posts9,860,825
Members87,919
| |
Most Online25,604
Feb 12th, 2024
|
|
|
 Re: Unions?
[Re: blanked]
#9104985
09/10/24 11:15 AM
|
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,009
P_102
Extreme Tracker
|
|
Extreme Tracker
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,009 |
Overall i support them. Always pros and cons. Here is a big issue why i support them. Lets say you hired in and for years you did your job very well. Now you want to move onto bigger and better training cause your bored with what you have been doing and need a challenge. The non union company doesnt want to lose you with what your doing cause you do it so well so they hire someone new with no experience to train for the more advanced job you are wanting. The way the company sees it why move you to a new position and have to train you in addition to having to train another new hire who needs to take your old job. So bypass the proven productive worker and keep him locked in. A union will say no its based on senority as long as the individual can pass the test.
This isnt some made up scenario it happens all the time So you are for basing promotions on seniority, not ability? No i also said provided they pass the test But wouldn’t passing the test involve some training?
Do not trifle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
|
|
|
|
Re: Unions?
[Re: deerfeeder]
#9104986
09/10/24 11:18 AM
|
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 7,775
GasGuzzler
THF Trophy Hunter
|
|
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 7,775 |
The worst comment in a union discussion is "they had a time and place". Nope, they didn't. Socialism has no place in our lives and never has. Unions are an insidious and damning part of culture that often raise drastically more issues than they solve. They have done so since they were invented.
Pass the gravy.
|
|
|
|
Re: Unions?
[Re: rolyat.nosaj]
#9105222
09/10/24 06:24 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 28
DCR
Light Foot
|
|
Light Foot
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 28 |
I suppose it is all relevant to what industry you are in,I am a union member and have been paying dues for 30+ years,I am sure that without the union I would not have made near as much money as I have with them,that being said,I would happily take my skills and work a non union job if it payed anywhere near what I make as a union member,but alas that will never happen.
I am in the airline industry and seniority and years of service are directly related to pay and days off and shift worked,with out the union the company could require me to work graves with week days off,and at a bid location of their choosing,with 29 plus years seniority I can pretty much work where I want when I want.
The down side is that a guy/girl who has the same seniority can get the same pay and benefits for doing 1/4 of the work with 1/2 or less of the job skills and training/certifations that I hold,it isn’t fair but I don’t hold any hard feelings toward those people.
I am very happy in my job and could retire at any time if I chose to,most of the guys on my crew are multi millionaires and still working because they enjoy it,I know I am in the minority of union workers in that we are “skilled labor” and are heavily regulated by the FAA ,but I don’t think I would work in the airline industry with out a union.
I have almost 30 years at my current employer and have seen good times and bad times with the union/company relationship,but our company was for the most part always ranked in the top 100 companies in the US to work for,and we are one of the most heavily union Airlines in the world .
BTW we are heavily conservative in our union and parted ways with the Teamsters 15 years ago because of a lot of their policies concerning who they supported with our dues. What happens if you chose not to be a part of the union? Is it a requirement to get hired? I have never been a part of a union in my line of work but I wouldn't want my dues going to a group that support different political views than me. I think seniority would bother me too. I should be rewarded for my hard work, how well I do it, the investments I made and initiative I have shown to get licenses and certifications. Seniority does mean something but to me it's lower on the list. Texas is a right to work state so you don’t have to join the union ,and you can work,but you are still assigned a seniority # and have all the same benefits as union members,you also pay dues so you are by all accounts a union member even if you say you don’t want to join.
|
|
|
|
Re: Unions?
[Re: DCR]
#9105224
09/10/24 06:31 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 18,074
Jimbo1
THF Celebrity
|
|
THF Celebrity
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 18,074 |
I suppose it is all relevant to what industry you are in,I am a union member and have been paying dues for 30+ years,I am sure that without the union I would not have made near as much money as I have with them,that being said,I would happily take my skills and work a non union job if it payed anywhere near what I make as a union member,but alas that will never happen.
I am in the airline industry and seniority and years of service are directly related to pay and days off and shift worked,with out the union the company could require me to work graves with week days off,and at a bid location of their choosing,with 29 plus years seniority I can pretty much work where I want when I want.
The down side is that a guy/girl who has the same seniority can get the same pay and benefits for doing 1/4 of the work with 1/2 or less of the job skills and training/certifations that I hold,it isn’t fair but I don’t hold any hard feelings toward those people.
I am very happy in my job and could retire at any time if I chose to,most of the guys on my crew are multi millionaires and still working because they enjoy it,I know I am in the minority of union workers in that we are “skilled labor” and are heavily regulated by the FAA ,but I don’t think I would work in the airline industry with out a union.
I have almost 30 years at my current employer and have seen good times and bad times with the union/company relationship,but our company was for the most part always ranked in the top 100 companies in the US to work for,and we are one of the most heavily union Airlines in the world .
BTW we are heavily conservative in our union and parted ways with the Teamsters 15 years ago because of a lot of their policies concerning who they supported with our dues. What happens if you chose not to be a part of the union? Is it a requirement to get hired? I have never been a part of a union in my line of work but I wouldn't want my dues going to a group that support different political views than me. I think seniority would bother me too. I should be rewarded for my hard work, how well I do it, the investments I made and initiative I have shown to get licenses and certifications. Seniority does mean something but to me it's lower on the list. Texas is a right to work state so you don’t have to join the union ,and you can work,but you are still assigned a seniority # and have all the same benefits as union members,you also pay dues so you are by all accounts a union member even if you say you don’t want to join. I fell under this in the 90’s when I was at Lockheed. Paid dues but not a member. Had to quit after a year of shenanigans by the local union leader. She would always sign up for OT and signed up her buddies first, leftovers went to us less fortunate. Miserable experience there for many reasons.
Awake - Not Woke!
|
|
|
|
Re: Unions?
[Re: deerfeeder]
#9105226
09/10/24 06:33 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,540
bassfishinglawyer
Veteran Tracker
|
|
Veteran Tracker
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,540 |
For the best worker in the Union its probably a bad deal - he could negotiate a better deal.
For the worst worker in the Union it's a great deal - he gets the benefits of being an average worker.
|
|
|
|
Re: Unions?
[Re: deerfeeder]
#9105247
09/10/24 06:56 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 8,523
BradyBuck
THF Trophy Hunter
|
|
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 8,523 |
Good and bad
My BIL who is an engineer in Wyoming has some pretty crazy stories about how unions work and the issues they have caused.
However, when it comes to the fire service I have seen how much local government will completely screw you if you don’t have a voice and make them follow their own rules and the law.
HRCH Washita's Kimber Locked N Loaded
GRHRCH Firefly's Rally The Troops MH
|
|
|
|
Re: Unions?
[Re: deerfeeder]
#9105252
09/10/24 07:00 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 7,266
onlysmith&wesson
THF Trophy Hunter
|
|
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 7,266 |
I saw both sides of Unions. As a part time employee while in college, then full time after graduating I was an hourly employee and union member. A year as a full time hourly with my degree, I was promoted into management. I never liked the union when I was in it but if you're in a union shop and not a member, it's kind of like what I imagine prison would be like without a gang to protect you. In management I really saw how self serving the union was. Union business mangers came from the hourly ranks, left the company to work for the union. They were the laziest, most negative malcontents we had. They made great business managers. A lot of the people that work for the union hold multiple positions and pull in multiple pay checks. They thrive on negativity and don't actually want a happy, content satisfied work force. Their existence is based on the employer being an evil entity that is out to enslave the workers so you need the union to protect you. They always negotiated in the favor of the Union, not the workers. Union dues were based on the hourly wage they negotiated. When we would offer a signing bonus with an hourly increase, the unions didn't like it because they didn't get any of the bonus that would be going to the workers. Unions rake in MILLIONS of $ in dues and provide nothing but representation. A huge part of what they take in is to pay salaries to people that don't work much.
An unethical shot is one you take, that you know you shouldn't.
|
|
|
|
Re: Unions?
[Re: bassfishinglawyer]
#9105258
09/10/24 07:08 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 66,877
SnakeWrangler
THF Celebrity
|
|
THF Celebrity
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 66,877 |
For the best worker in the Union its probably a bad deal - he could negotiate a better deal.
For the worst worker in the Union it's a great deal - he gets the benefits of being an average worker. Well below average from my experience…..
I believe in science and I’m an insufferable [censored] Actually, BBC is pretty damn good "You Cannot Simultaneously Be Politically Correct And Intellectually Honest!"
|
|
|
|
Re: Unions?
[Re: bassfishinglawyer]
#9105502
09/11/24 01:59 AM
|
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,069
blanked
Veteran Tracker
|
|
Veteran Tracker
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,069 |
For the best worker in the Union its probably a bad deal - he could negotiate a better deal.
For the worst worker in the Union it's a great deal - he gets the benefits of being an average worker. The best worker didnt know squat when he hired on. Ask the old timers who trained him
|
|
|
|
Re: Unions?
[Re: GasGuzzler]
#9105556
09/11/24 02:58 AM
|
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 14,992
ntxtrapper
THF Celebrity
|
|
THF Celebrity
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 14,992 |
The worst comment in a union discussion is "they had a time and place". Nope, they didn't. Socialism has no place in our lives and never has. Unions are an insidious and damning part of culture that often raise drastically more issues than they solve. They have done so since they were invented. ^^^^^
|
|
|
|
Re: Unions?
[Re: onlysmith&wesson]
#9105646
09/11/24 11:32 AM
|
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 7,775
GasGuzzler
THF Trophy Hunter
|
|
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 7,775 |
If you have to join a union for survival, you picked the wrong employer or career. A huge part of what they take in is to pay salaries to people that don't work much. Accurately describes local, State, and Federal government.
Pass the gravy.
|
|
|
|
Re: Unions?
[Re: GasGuzzler]
#9105823
09/11/24 03:58 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 7,266
onlysmith&wesson
THF Trophy Hunter
|
|
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 7,266 |
If you have to join a union for survival, you picked the wrong employer or career. A huge part of what they take in is to pay salaries to people that don't work much. Accurately describes local, State, and Federal government. I'm not pro-Union at all. But, you're wrong in my case. I played the game as an hourly long enough to get into management and it turned out to be a great career move for me. If someone wants to join a union and be a life long career hourly employee as an auto worker, railroad employee, utility lineman, etc.........they bank great $ and do well. Not for me, but I know some that are happy with their choice and have had life long careers.
An unethical shot is one you take, that you know you shouldn't.
|
|
|
|
Re: Unions?
[Re: deerfeeder]
#9106204
09/12/24 11:14 AM
|
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 7,775
GasGuzzler
THF Trophy Hunter
|
|
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 7,775 |
Wonder if you know how much a normal auto tech makes if he's been in the business for over 30 years, is top 10 in the zone by Mark of Excellence rating, and better than 300 in the nation? I haven't had an hourly job since the 1990's. In anti-union Texas, auto techs are paid commission based on the amount of labor each job should require (we make nothing off parts), not by the hour. You have to go up to Yankee-land to find union auto repair shops where the guys get paid way more "per hour" (might take a while to explain the difference) to produce about half the work. I didn't say you can't make money or be happy (abortion doctors do it all the time), I said if you HAVE to join a union then you picked the wrong profession or employer. The UAW is the cause for about 30% of a new vehicle's cost. Tour an assembly plant sometime. It's pretty sickening.
Pass the gravy.
|
|
|
|
Re: Unions?
[Re: GasGuzzler]
#9106206
09/12/24 11:22 AM
|
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 7,266
onlysmith&wesson
THF Trophy Hunter
|
|
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 7,266 |
Wonder if you know how much a normal auto tech makes if he's been in the business for over 30 years, is top 10 in the zone by Mark of Excellence rating, and better than 300 in the nation? I haven't had an hourly job since the 1990's. In anti-union Texas, auto techs are paid commission based on the amount of labor each job should require (we make nothing off parts), not by the hour. You have to go up to Yankee-land to find union auto repair shops where the guys get paid way more "per hour" (might take a while to explain the difference) to produce about half the work. I didn't say you can't make money or be happy (abortion doctors do it all the time), I said if you HAVE to join a union then you picked the wrong profession or employer. The UAW is the cause for about 30% of a new vehicle's cost. Tour an assembly plant sometime. It's pretty sickening. I don't, nor do I care. How is your question relevant to my statement? I'm not pro union, at all.
An unethical shot is one you take, that you know you shouldn't.
|
|
|
|
Re: Unions?
[Re: deerfeeder]
#9106234
09/12/24 12:52 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,319
batman
Pro Tracker
|
|
Pro Tracker
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,319 |
Unions protect the least productive and worst employees and look down on the best. I’ve seen it first hand where the other employees would be sick of covering for and cleaning up after a terrible employee, but then miraculously changing their story after speaking with the union rep. This was during investigations of said worthless employees.
|
|
|
|
Re: Unions?
[Re: deerfeeder]
#9106242
09/12/24 01:16 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 27,356
Creekrunner
THF Celebrity
|
|
THF Celebrity
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 27,356 |
Pure thuggery. A whole system based on intimidation. The high school bully that never grew up is an "officer" in the union.
...and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. Gen. 1:28
|
|
|
|
Re: Unions?
[Re: Creekrunner]
#9106262
09/12/24 01:51 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 7,266
onlysmith&wesson
THF Trophy Hunter
|
|
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 7,266 |
Pure thuggery. A whole system based on intimidation. The high school bully that never grew up is an "officer" in the union. I actually think the union officer is the high school kid that wanted to be a bully but wasn't tough enough. The union "officer" was never relevant anywhere until he realized that being a pain in the a-- at work and hating the company he worked for would get him elected to something. That was my observation.
An unethical shot is one you take, that you know you shouldn't.
|
|
|
|
Re: Unions?
[Re: deerfeeder]
#9106268
09/12/24 02:11 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 10,622
The Dude Abides
THF Celebrity
|
|
THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 10,622 |
I manage large scale Semi-Conductor & Data Center projects and have union plumbers, pipe fitters, electricians & sheet metal workers on these projects. For the most part they are worthless, idiots and all they do is drive costs up!
I am still looking for the perfect apron, one with reinforced knee areas would be perfect.
|
|
|
|
Re: Unions?
[Re: deerfeeder]
#9106332
09/12/24 03:42 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,069
blanked
Veteran Tracker
|
|
Veteran Tracker
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,069 |
Again the union does NOT do the hiring and firing. You people keep blaming the union for poor employees. Thats all on the company they hired them. Unions cant have a different set of rules for each employee as far as union protection.
Last edited by blanked; 09/12/24 03:45 PM.
|
|
|
|
Re: Unions?
[Re: blanked]
#9106341
09/12/24 03:57 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 7,266
onlysmith&wesson
THF Trophy Hunter
|
|
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 7,266 |
Again the union does NOT do the hiring and firing. You people keep blaming the union for poor employees. Thats all on the company they hired them. Unions cant have a different set of rules for each employee as far as union protection. Correct. But...............it's the unions that negotiate items into the contract that prevent termination without progressive disciplinary action. I have seen it in a contract that an employee has to commit the identical infraction three times within a one year period before termination can occur. Twelve months passes, new set of progressive discipline.
An unethical shot is one you take, that you know you shouldn't.
|
|
|
|
Re: Unions?
[Re: blanked]
#9106369
09/12/24 04:36 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 10,622
The Dude Abides
THF Celebrity
|
|
THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 10,622 |
Again the union does NOT do the hiring and firing. You people keep blaming the union for poor employees. Thats all on the company they hired them. Unions cant have a different set of rules for each employee as far as union protection. Not entirely correct. It's the local bench that keeps these folks (duds) around. When the contractors call for labor they reach out to the local to fill slots. The contractors have NO way to vet what they get. Travelers are the worst!!!
I am still looking for the perfect apron, one with reinforced knee areas would be perfect.
|
|
|
|
Re: Unions?
[Re: deerfeeder]
#9106383
09/12/24 04:47 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 19,860
Pitchfork Predator
THF Celebrity
|
|
THF Celebrity
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 19,860 |
Unions drive cost up and lower productivity…….they suck.
|
|
|
|
Re: Unions?
[Re: SnakeWrangler]
#9106395
09/12/24 04:59 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 4,782
krmitchell
Extreme Tracker
|
|
Extreme Tracker
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 4,782 |
Leaders from six of the largest labor unions in the U.S. were part of the group of speakers kicking off the Democratic National Convention. And that’s ^^^^^^ everything you need to know about unions. I have no use for them like all democraps…. Amen. If Kamala supports unions I don’t.
Last edited by krmitchell; 09/12/24 05:19 PM.
|
|
|
|
Re: Unions?
[Re: deerfeeder]
#9106679
09/12/24 11:46 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,938
RiverRider
THF Trophy Hunter
|
|
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,938 |
Unions are collectivist in nature. That in itself gives them the inertia to be harmful and to handicap an economy.
In some instances unions exercise a free hand to operate as a monopoly on labor. And that's okay? No one else gets to operate as a monopoly. If there were at least competing unions, it might all be much more equitable but I won't be holding my breath. As far as I am concerned, they can all go to the devil where they belong.
Because of an old court decision, unions are essentially immune to laws that prohibit terroristic activity. That's bulls**&* and needs to be changed.
![[Linked Image]](https://i.imgur.com/Kqs020H.jpg) "Arguing with you always makes me thirsty." -Augustus McRae
|
|
|
|
Re: Unions?
[Re: The Dude Abides]
#9106682
09/12/24 11:56 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 18,954
ducknbass
THF Celebrity
|
|
THF Celebrity
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 18,954 |
I manage large scale Semi-Conductor & Data Center projects and have union plumbers, pipe fitters, electricians & sheet metal workers on these projects. For the most part they are worthless, idiots and all they do is drive costs up! I’m an electrician that worked in those industries (non union) has to be the most nut busting type of work I ever worked in. If I never see the inside of a Cyrus one or any fab I’ll die happy.
|
|
|
Moderated by bigbob_ftw, CCBIRDDOGMAN, Chickenman, Derek, DeRico, Duck_Hunter, kmon11, kry226, kwrhuntinglab, Payne, pertnear, sig226fan (Rguns.com), Superduty, TreeBass, txcornhusker
|
