All of the questions we are asking ourselves are legitimate but none of them fit the narrative.

Of course not.

Being accepting of CWD being naturally occurring doesent make money and doesent get rid of deer breeders

You guys act as if deer breeding never started the CWD situation would be the same as it is now but you cannot know that because the genie is out of the bottle and has been for decades (the genie being breeders moving deer all around the state with little to no regulation for many years, and that practice continuing with non-native ungulates).

Everyone can argue until they are blue in the face about how it got here, because no one has definitive evidence. Disinformation and conspiracy wins in that case and it is alive and well in some of these comments.

What is not debatable is that the movement and release of ungulates across the state has created a situation where ANY wildlife disease can spread to new areas far more quickly than it would have naturally without deer getting moved hundreds of miles in trailers. It is basic disease ecology. It is incredible what we can individually ignore at the whims of big racks and money. I am as guilty as anyone over the years.

Fact- CO aka ground zero is not a product of deer breeders.

Fact- 95% PLUS percent of testing in Texas is ONLY breeder deer,

Test for it in every deer killed in TX. Then the fingers can actually be pointed. That’s not disinformation,

I’m not a breeder nor do I hunt breeder deer, but I’ve hunted in CWD zones for 20 plus years, the facts are conspicuous unless you want to ignore them to set an agenda. You just ignored the two most prominent ones which were: where was the first observed case and why Texas testing only paints one picture.

Please explain to me how deer breeding is in any way to blame for CWD?

It started in Colorado in the 1960’s from elk held in a sheep pen. It spread to far west Texas and the panhandle where there is zero deer breeding.

But somehow whitetail deer breeding is to blame?

Gimme a break.

People need to get educated and get real world experience instead of relying on articles written by recent UT graduates and TWA appointees.


It’s sheep scrapie. It’s in the soil. Just like anthrax

Deer breeders didn’t create it. Sheep and goat ranching did

Hogs, coons and buzzards can spread it around as well.


But by god, it’s the breeders fault.

Scrapie, been around forever.

And ironically pretty much eliminated in US sheep now due to genetic influence breeding.

I did not blame deer breeders for anything and I did not mention CWD. Read what I wrote: "the movement and release of ungulates across the state has created a situation where ANY wildlife disease can spread to new areas far more quickly than it would have naturally without deer getting moved hundreds of miles in trailers"

What I wrote is not debatable, and yes it can be applied to CWD along with a litany of other wildlife diseases but I am not blaming an individual breeder or breeders at large for creating or knowingly/willingly spreading CWD.

Your knee jerk reaction that I wrote something that I did not say at all demonstrates that you have not fully thought out the situation and/or that you have a vested interest in supporting deer breeders.

And you guys keep saying scrapie but they are two different diseases of the same class for totally different genus' of ungulate (ovis and cervids). Science got us this far in wildlife and habitat management. Quit putting your heads in the sand.

The way that I view CWD is pretty simple: The risk of negative consequence for hunters at large for taking no action and remaining in the status quo on CWD management is far greater than attempting to take some action to learn more and prevent further spread. I don't believe in killing every deer that is within some radius of a positive detection but I also do not believe in doing nothing and proclaiming it has been here forever so why should we do anything. I believe in a balanced approach to gather as much data as possible. That is how appropriate management strategies are formed. The way many of you frame it, you would prefer no data collected and remain on the status quo.

I would challenge you to consider that there is a chance that you could be wrong or misinformed, and to embrace a balanced approach to learn more. After all, there is a chance that I am wrong too. I am guessing that you did not listen to the podcast that I recommended with the biologist in my local area. You may learn something. https://www.rokslide.com/fighting-for-big-mule-deer-with-darby-finley/

The best I can find is they gave a WTD scrapie by injecting sheep brain material into a deer. Again, they are very similar diseases and it cannot be ruled out that that is where CWD came from at this time, but there is no definitive evidence of that.

You guys get your panties in a wad and I am just trying to have a discussion. Open your minds. Not everything is big government screwing things up. They get a few things correct from time to time.

I always suspected Bobo wears panties.

How dare you question the all-knowing BoBo and TT85

Hey I will give both of those guys plenty of credit, they know a lot and are well informed on many issues. I have learned things from both of them without a doubt over the years. Probably a lot more than either of them have ever or will ever learn from me. That being said, I feel I have some very solid ground to stand on when I discuss CWD and I don't think my arguments can be outright rejected without evidence. It is a mess of a situation but discussion and debate are required.

CWD can and has been transported but look at the CWD map I posted and ask is that map a product of trailers/facilites? migration? Or testing? Chances are all three

Arkansas first CWD tested hot was a hunter killed free range elk, that herd was started 1931 and “died out” mysteriously in 1950’s. Then re-introduced by F&G in 1980. No HF no breeders. So did CWD come from the 1980 transplant, and only tested positive 30 years later when they started actually testing?

TX ground zero West Texas mule deer herd has no breeders or HF for 100’s of miles. Where did it come from?

Both sides will continue to argue until two things happen, all deer killed in Tx are tested and there is another testing option out side of TWPD

I can have a civil discussion about CWD.

I get upset because it has directly affected how I do business and my ability to move deer to properties in need.


I’m not saying CWD does not exist.

My stance on it is that TPWD ( much like the federal government in regards to covid ) found something to latch onto and make into a big issue in order to push an agenda which was to eliminate deer breeding now and possibly high fencing in the future.

CWD has not decimated deer herds and has not ever jumped from an animal to a person. They are using scare tactics to the uninformed public by saying that it potentially could and will also decimate the deer herd.

The reality is that EHD, Blue Tongue and Anthrax is much more detrimental to whitetail deer herds than CWD is. But CWD is getting all the press and most people have never heard of EHD or Blue Tongue.

The sheep scrapie prion shown under microscope is identical to the CWD prion. The original elk that were infected were held in a pen in Colorado that was normally used for sheep and goats. It was in the soil.

My old neighbor got popped for CWD and his herd had been closed for almost 20 years. He didn’t bring any outside deer, but his ranch was sheep and goated back in the 60’s and 70’s. So were most of the new areas they are finding it in ( Val verde and Kimble for instance). So that additionally points to the scrapie prion being in the soil.

New studies have shown that it can be carried and spread by raccoons, hogs, buzzards, foxes, etc so it can and will continue to spread about. After the original Colorado elk herd was infected it spread to far west Texas and the panhandle, in areas with no deer breeding and really no whitetail deer.

So it came from somewhere. BUT……a lot of that Hueco mountain range was sheep and goated in the past….


CWD is a real thing. But it’s not the herd slayer that they are claiming. And to date it it has never, ever jumped from a Cervid to a human. And I promise you people have consumed meat from animals infected with CWD

Don K:


“This image proves that CWD is killing our deer and needs to be taken seriously”

Buddy of mine bought 1,700 acres just south of Freer. I was there when he drove the ranch prior to purchase. Sure looked like a deer rich environment, but let's just say he migh've been "misled". Cameras and field reports indicate there were four does and 1 buck at the end of the season. Lots of exotics taken off and still to be taken off. Wants to concentrate on WT. With no TTT, he's starting off in a tough position.

Yep. And he can still get deer from a breeder but can’t get it off a low fence ranch like the Faith or Callahan because of new rules.

Rokslide thread and study has some major issues. over all the theme is their herd is being reduced severally. 2023 100’s of tag cuts was due to winter kill not CWD. In fact CO UPPER tags and extended season to try to lower deer numbers in others “cwd” areas

Northern CO and Wyoming have similar issue. Wy has the second highest population of sheep(and most per acre) in the US. Most of that on public land also. They need to cut the grazing allotments as it’s not just scrapies but mycoplasma ovi (which is killing the bighorns). Domestic goat and sheep producers potentially carry as much or more of the blame then breeders. WY does NOT have a hot breeding facility, much less a breeding facility. When you step back, the goat and sheep producers might have been and possibly continue to be the worst thing for WY wildlife… third only to…. winter and man messing up Migration corridors. WY is trending down bad, but which isn’t ground zero in CO that bad.

Damnt you caught me.

bo bo. do you sell "Time Shares " as a side job?

No own smaller acre farm/ranch corp, you?

I can't spend 24 hours a day on this thread like some. I have to stay out in the pasture with my Ibex knocking scabbies off them so they won't give the WT CWD.

Scrapie’s is a prion that’s kissing cousins with or the same as CWD that causes long onset brain degeneration …..scabies are skin mites.

Not the same but you’re the expert as you say, and the rest of us are just idiots as you said


With that said I’m sure mites can be a transmission vector for scrapie’s/cwd though…..

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that there are more deer killed in Texas due to lead poisoning than have died over the last 10 years due to CWD

Or snakebites, or porcupine quills, or nasal bots, etc.