I guess I was thinking with a kill zone of 10” to 12” plus, on a given animal
and a legit shooter who is capable of .28 groups; would .58 make any difference? He would be .28 off; but would it matter if he couldn’t get the shot within the 12” kill zone?

.30 MOA at 600 yards equates to 1.89" at 600 yards. So yes, it can make a difference. But that is only if the error is linear, and it is not. Just because it holds .58 MOA at 100 yards, does not mean it holds that at all distances. I never load test rifles at 100 yards, because a bad load can still look good. I test at 200 yards or greater. And even then, that .58 MOA might not hold up at triple the distance.

After all of that, the wind is the biggest problem to manage for anyone. It's always there, and it takes lots of practice to get good at reading and properly correcting for. Since that is a fact, some people want to reduce any further shot errors created by the rifle and/or the load.

If you only consider accuracy as a pre-requisite there are several mass builder you should entertain, you still have to work through their accuracy small print if it doesnt meet it though

Springfield
Sako
Tikka
Bergera
Seekins
Fierce

Been big game hunting for 53 years, guided hunts for 16. Most hunters don't shoot good enough to know the difference between a .58 gun and a .25 gun, and sure as heck have no business shooting at game animals past 300 yards, a distance in which 95+% of big game animals are taken, or less. I grew up in wide open West Texas and have never taken a shot at a deer, antelope, or aoudad sheep past 500 yds, and only a handful of them at that distance. Customs are great if you want one, but hardly mandatory.

Just to echo Jgraider: While we all measure our dicks in MOA, let's be honest that maybe one dude on this forum with one gun is capable of shooting .28" groups reliably (and it isn't me, even though I spend a lot of time behind a PRS rifle). That is entirely unrealistic for the majority of shooters, even given the best custom rifle and perfect handloads.

AND let's also be realistic about the other issues of shooting game at range: the majority of people suck at windcalls. It isn't just an extrapolation of saying "Oh I shoot .28" at 100 yards (you don't), that means I can ethically shoot a deer at 800 yards."

On a good day I can squeeze an inch group out of my rifles.

Give me a .25” gun and I could squeeze an inch out of them too



I can’t shoot good enough off a bench to impress anyone.

400 yards is my max and I haven’t had to test it yet.

What happened to a guy asking about building a custom bolt action rifle, and for a whole lot of reasons beside how it shoots.

No wonder so many topics end up in PMs. Avoid the peanut gallery.

What’s the long list of other things beside accuracy? Who wants a beautiful light rifle that’s not accurate?

Go read this thread.

You actually can have both. And reputable rifle builders will make sure you have both. What makes you think it's one or the other?

Often times the "peanut gallery" is correct, as they are in this specific case regarding accuracy. If someone is that thin skinned they need to go over to the birdwatcher's forum and hang out a while. I've got two customs, the McWhorter and a Hill Country Rifles 7mag. Some of today's production rifles (Tikka, Sako) shoot so good they will be my last ones. YMMV

Good discussions but the original poster never really gave any information. He could just as easily want to build a 15 lb custom to shoot out to 1200 yards. Nothing was ever said about hunting.

I've already said let's put accuracy aside. Yes, mass production rifles can shoot very well, I've shot a whole bunch of them. Hill Country, Horizon, West Texas Ordnance, Alamo Precision, Judd's builds, my builds, they are all going to shoot very well.

But, the future owner gets to pick every feature he wants before the rifle is produced. Action, cartridge, barrel contour, barrel length, twist rate, which trigger, which muzzle device, flutes yes or no, carbon fiber barrel yes or no, stock type, cerakote colors. That's where it becomes millions of combinations.

A whole lot of THF members assemble their own AR's for exactly the same reason. They get every part just the way they want, and did not buy a complete rifle only to remove parts and add the parts they like. But the AR is far more easy for a DIY-er to assemble in his garage with all the tools to do so costing less than $100.

Have you ever seen Brian Litz's shoot through target challenge? Turns out the error is mostly linear. I know a lot of people say that sometimes a rifle shoots better at 200yd than at 100yd and he's a pretty staunch opponent of that.


https://www.facebook.com/story.php?id=100078986374844&story_fbid=120708483879458

That's great, but you aren't the OP. Accuracy is the only reason to even think about building a custom.

I cant agree with that, there are several combinations of components you may desire that are not offered in factory packages.

OK, I probably should have said accuracy is by far the most important criteria for building a custom. Without it, all the rest is just fluff.

Proof that some folks like to argue...whether they are right or wrong and others carry axes to grind on

Buzz...we had a custom rifle thread years ago I think BIL started. There is enough folks that build rifles or have rifles built we need to start one and just keep it updated. I'll start one tonite and post the 7prc...I can't post pics right now.

Third time that's been stated. Some people do not possess reading comprehension.

nobody reads the entire thread when they are this long with banter

I think y'all have been had. He posed the question, three pages later not a single reply back, unless I missed it. It's been a very good discussion though. Few things I would have asked. I know y'all have covered some of this.
- What's the purpose of this rifle?
- What is your budget?
- Is for paper punching, benchrest, short or long range hunting?
- If hunting what class of animal will he be hunting?
- Different requirements for small game, deer, hog or antelope sized game, larger game or verses dangerous game and so on.
- What caliber, bullet(s) does he want to shoot?
This list could go on and on,

Someone once said, custom rifles are like custom golf clubs. In the hands of a skilled shooter or good golfer, the results are usually outstanding. In the hands of someone who doesn't have the skills, they won't help much. I'm sure like me, a lot of you have been to a range, the shooter next to you can't shoot a decent sized group with their custom rifles. The don't blame themselves, they blame the rifle or load. They could use a day or three with JG or another qualified rifle coach to teach fundamentals and help get rid of bad/horrific habits.

Great topic!