Take that bet then....

It was not a bet. It was a hypothetical situation. And it wasn’t a “could you do it” scenario it was a “would you do it” when there are other calibers available scenario. But you saw the word “bet” in a response and zero’d in on that.

I couldn’t give a chit less what people shoot deer with. Shoot them with red ryders for all I care. Just don’t expect sympathy when you use a lesser caliber and they get away.

Two members used to swear by a .243 and then they both lost good deer and then all of a sudden those calibers weren’t cool anymore…


I really don’t care what person uses. If they want to learn the hard way, let them learn

Who were the 243 users?

Mine still never let me down.

Hwyman lost a good deer and BMD’s daughter lost a good deer.

Hwy probably could have gotten his though as he got out of the truck and walked to the deer without a rifle, had he had a gun in hand he probably could have popped it again.

Pose it any way you like, people pay this every year, use a bow and pay a trophy fee if they just wound one (not cool). Are they wrong for not using a gaymoor?

Now we’re talking!!! If y’all go down this rabbit hole this thread may set a record.
I think most people say they hunt with a bow cause it’s more challenging. That seems to imply they realize it’s not the most effective.
So if someone hunts with a smaller caliber cause it’s more challenging then it seems they may be admitting it is not the most effective.
Muzzle loader guys, come on down!!
Open sight shooters, join the debate, too.

The challenging part is the effective range, not that a bow has less killing power ( bow's have different power levels too and are not all created equal ). A broadhead tipped arrow is a very effective killing weapon and within its effective range gives up nothing on deer size game compared to a rifle.

Comparing how a arrow kills vs. a bullet is comparing apples to alternators.

Do you use what is most effective or you limit yourself to what you have in your gun safe?
Could it be that someone has a sentimental connection to something that started out with a gun their uncle built for them when they were young?.
Could it be that some people are just more effective with less than others?

There are things I wouldn’t want to do with a 223. I have a 375 win and a 3030 win, I feel more handicapped with them than a 223 or 22-250. Does that mean a 3030 and 375 Winchester are inadequate deer calibers?

Anything smaller than a .458 Lott is inadequate.


I think all kids’ first deer rifles should be a 460 weatherby.

Cartridge debates are ... always the same. It's spicier on THF because most of them are posted in the rifle forum instead of the ammunition forum.

I did not realize what a bad father I was a allowing Shotsie to head shoot all those does with the M77 loaded with 55 grain bullets and, egad, a Leupold fixed 6. Of course, that was after she was consistently putting them down with neck shots. In comfortable situations with a proven track record, many can find this caiber quite useful. Stretch it and then you have problems. Preferred for all situations and sufficient under given conditions are two different things, both of which can be successful.

Can't believe she neck shot that gobbler at hundred yards either. What was I thinking?

It wasn’t a bet and worded as such…I knew what you were saying and in part agree with you. Varmint bullets in varmint cartridges aren’t ideal for hunting deer.

But the part that wasn’t well thought out is blanket statements about .223 and now .243. (It wasn’t just you it was a general observation, I used your post trying to be funny to illustrate that) You can pair them with bullets that are very effective and especially on whitetail. Let’s be realistic, whitetail are looking for a place to die the day they are born.

I’ll go so far as to say, most folks will be far more accurate with a 223 or 243 than they are with magnum cartridges due to noise and recoil.

100% they will be. But there are many rounds chambered between a .223 and a 7mm mag or .300 mag. Use a .25-06, 6.5 CM, 7mm-08, etc. You don't even have to get up to a .270/280.



Only bullet designed for deer that I used were 55 grain federal fusions that Ime was the worst of all 3. Would penetrate just fine but I shot 5 or 6 deer with them and they mostly left light blood trails and the deer ran a ways. Internal damage wasn't great either.

My favorite was the 55 grain Sierra GameKing or the 55 grain V-max. Blood trails were almost non existent but the body cavity was turned into jelly most of the time.

My kids all shot their first deer with a .22-250 like I did and my wife used it as well for a time. They all prefer the 7mm-08 though.

5 or 6 deer, none of them dropped, poor internal damage? You just said everything that needs to be said about why it's a bad idea to go light. The plan should be to drop the deer where it was standing when you pulled the trigger.

Txtrophy - still to light of a bullet to be "a good choice", my opinion...I know you were dealing with what you could due to the rifle but that 's the part I'm agreeing with you on...heavy fast is where it's at if you're going to go to the smaller calibers.

os&w - that involves being able to put a bullet where you want it within the size of about a quarter...most guys are looking at hitting a pie plate. I can remember being a kid and my Dad hanging a paper plate with a sharpie dot in the center of it and said, you can hit that...you can hunt deer with me. Many folks have that same mentality and I know that because I realize (you do too) in order to hit a quarter consistently...folks have to shoot more than a box of shells a year

Why has bullet sectional density not been brought up yet?

It's a thing...

@Judd, exactly what I mean. The goal should be to drop the deer where it was standing when you pull the trigger. That involves more than bullet/caliber selection. I say it all the time, the right bullet in the right place. For me, that's a 165 gr. .308 SST right here:

Why didn't you mention it instead of high fence verses low fence and making a blanket statement that the 250 is a varmint cartridge. You've never shot a deer with a 22-250.

You are the guy who will argue til you're blue in the face, then have it in your will to have the statement put on your gravestone that a 22-250 is a fine deer cartridge. We're just gonna have to agree to disagree.

I agree on the agree to disagree part. People have lost deer with numerous calibers way bigger than what is required. I’m picky about bullet selection, but it works. You’re right you’re not going to sell me on what Ive done and lived for 15 years won’t or doesn’t work.

And I’d like to be cremated no grave.

Because I've had .260 Rem. 6.5 Creedmoor, 7mm-08, 7mm-08 A.I., and .308 Win available to shoot deer with.

Since the .22-250 is a varmint cartridge, and that's what I've used it for. My first barrel was a 1:14, and it was loaded with 55 gr SGK. The next barrel is a 1:8, and is loaded with 75 gr A-Max. I did that to combat Texas panhandle wind, and to be able to shoot prairie dogs and coyotes farther. The sectional density helps on the farther coyotes.

More deflection............ yawn.

So why can we hunt with target bullets but not hunt with a “varmint” caliber?

This is good!

You can hunt deer with a 22-250 in Texas if you want. Not all states will allow it.

I wouldn't. If I'm going to spend money on a lease/hunt, fill feeders all year, put up trail cams, drive to and from the ranch, wake up early, sit for hours, and freeze my tail off, the last thing I want to worry about is the caliber I'm shooting.

If the 30-06 and 270 are hurting, try low recoil rounds and changing your but pad if you haven't. If you're itching to buy a new rifle for whitetail, look at a 7mm-08.