THF folks,

Have you noticed a decline in the quality of reticle adjustment dials in Leupold in the current line up?
Seems like VX3-5 series scopes in the prior 3-10 years had more precise feeling and audible click adjusters.

With that said, what would you recommend for a light weight, high quality optic 3x9 to say 3-12 range.
This would go on an Kimber 84L which is pretty light and trim.

My preference is US made optics which narrows the field.
I'm running some Zeiss Conquest scopes on other rifles which were assembled in US with Japanese glass.

Let's see what THF can suggest. Budget would be under $1K, preferably around 500-600.

Thanks
Cajun in Texas

Leupold bad tracking is quite normal. This was two days ago. Hand loaded, match perfect ammo, with an ES of 12 fps. Leupold VX5-HD



I will not own Leupold, Vortex, Swarovski, and Zeiss rifle scopes. They do not track. They do not hold zero.

Money saver REALLY GOOD scope.

https://www.eurooptic.com/C557-NF-Nightforce-SHV-4-14x50-F1-1-MIL--illuminated-Mil-R-r.aspx

I’d normally recommend the SWFA 3-9 but I’m not sure when they will be in stock. It is not USA made but is made in Japan and SWFA is a Texas company.


https://swfa.com/swfa-3-9x42-ss-hd-mil-quad-reticle-30mm-tube-1-mil-clicks-ffp/

Trijicon is another good option. Also made in Japan.

https://www.eurooptic.com/Trijicon-...on-Tree-30mm-Matte-Black-Riflescope.aspx

Both are fairly light but not as light as Leupolds.

Trijicon AccuPoint.

Trijcon crede
maven RS1.2 - 2.5-15X44 FFP(. It’s a very usable full range reticle)
NF SHV

Leupold came in No1 this year….seems like it was Vortex last year.
https://precisionrifleblog.com/2024/06/10/best-long-range-scope-reticle-what-the-pros-use/

Interesting.

It's always good to do some type of box test on your scope. The easiest way we've found is to secure your rifle and scope. I use my Tipton gun vise as it allows me to tighten down the rear stock where it won't move, We'll draw out usually a 25MOA box on a couple pieces of poster board taped together with has marks at 10/15 & 20 MOA. Using a weighted plumb line we make sure the vertical line on the target is plumb and horizontal line is perfectly level at 100 yards. Getting it lined up on the target may take a bit of work, You can easily do a 20 moa box test or what ever increment you want and check the tracking. Much more accurate that shooting a box test if the rifle/scope are truly secure. This will check two aspects, one, how well does the scope track and does it come back to the zero. Two, is the vertical reticle canting as the move up. Cant has a big effect shooting long distances. It's worked really well for me.

A really interesting article. Thanks for posting it. It’s nice to know what the serious folk are using.

Which LEUPOLD did you have this issue with and did it track and hold zero? The audible click and feel wouldn’t necessarily lead to performance issues.

I haven’t noticed the characteristic you discuss. I have two VX5-HD’s. One purchased 7 years ago and one a year old. They aren’t any different than a VX6 that is 12 years old. They both are great hunting scopes. I dial them all year long with no issues. My first in the line up has been dialed from a 100 yard zero to kill a coyote at 550 yards, months later to a 370 yard kill and many 300 yard verification shots on steel in the year. Over it’s 7 year life it’s been dialed 100’s of times and always been money, returned to and held zero.

X2

They both beat ZCO and NF so you have to wonder how much of that is sponsor driven. I don’t know. I know when I upgraded from my Mk5 to the ZCO I didn’t regret one penny of it.

Me -2- Vx5 HD and vx3 (luppy replaced one HD 5 and the vx 3)
cousin-2 mark 5’s

PRS= paid to shoot and they are all shooting Mark 5’s, I doubt any PRS shooters are shooting sub $1000 scopes also.

PRS rifle are also not hunting rifles, while they are used a lot over all rifle weights and recoil reduction systems are well above most hunting rifles.

I’m done with glass quality I need highest probability of reliability, tried of sending scopes back.

PRS has turned into exhibition shooting to me. Their rifles are benchrest rifles with arca rails and bipods (some even weigh more than some benchrest rifles)...seems like I saw an article recently their weights were averaging 20lb+ rifles.

Looks like NRL is the old PRS...without 6mm's.

That wasn't a knock on PRS shooters...those guys winning PRS matches would very likely win NRL or any other rifle game they decided to play. Also, one thing I've noticed over the years...PRS shooters are loyal to their sponsors. I bet over the last few years the NF presence on the prize tables have went down and the Leupy has increased. Nothing wrong with that...take care of the hand that feeds you.

Those articles I read and are interested in but not something I put much weight on...

A long time customer of mine asked me two months ago about replacing his VX-5 HD. He said it was always losing zero. And his elevation corrections always varied. He's been a Leupold guy for 30 years.

I told him Night Force NX8. He bought one, and got it bore sighted and zeroed. Then shot with it for a couple of weeks. He called again and said what a great scope it is, he's done with Leupold forever, selling the ones he has, and will be buying another NX8.

We are also forgetting not a scope being used in that class that meets the OP’s pricing, out side of maybe a Burris .

OP if you are a vet or first responder most the scope companies have great programs. Most use Guidefitter or Expert voice, few are direct like leupold

Is he a member here? I’d be interested in buying one of them. I’ve put a few of my hunting partners on VX5-HD’s, all hunting great with them.

All that chart says is more people shoot LP than the others. TT had four of the top 10, LP and NF had two each.

I have a VX5-HD 3-15 fire dot with aluminum scope capes. $800

Yep. Looks to me like some are not paying close attention to what the chart is telling us, which is more Tangent Theta users were in the top 10 than users of any other brand. Nightforce did well too.

Regardless, OP is shopping for a scope to put on a Kimber 84L, not a competition rig. I doubt he's wanting a 40-ounce scope, and I get the impression he just wants something with turrets that generally work. I'd suggest looking for one of the older Weaver Super Slams or the Grand Slams (either version). They have good glass and the turrets work well, and weight is very reasonable for a hunting rifle.

Notice I haven't put a recommendation out either I have not a single clue on a $5-600 scope that would be worth a crap. If I did, I'd have a safe full of them Instead I have a safe full of $750-800 when we could buy them for that...

Valid point.

Think you can get there with NF SHV but barely and Trijicon is just above

SHV glass is meee but reliable

He’s gonna hunt with the scope, not shoot competition. He’ll do perfectly fine with a Leupold VX3 or VX5. I also have an Athlon Midas 2.5-15 that is pretty nice for what I use it for. Next scope, if there is one, might be a Trijicon, just because I’d like to see how good it is. Zeiss would be fine.

The Athlon Midas hits his price ideas, and the clicks are sharp. Some of you guys are pushing him toward Porsche level, when all he needs is Toyota level.

Oh and I have a Zeiss 4-16 for sale also

Great suggestions….

603 is correct. I’m looking for a light weight hunting optic. Not interested in PRS or Long Range

Here’s my criteria:
Under 16oz, prefer closer to 12-13
9x magnification is OK, maybe a little more
Made in USA preferred - Leupold is US made, Trijicon US assembled. Others in my price range mostly imports.
Budget $500-$1000
Interested in dial up capability, hence the question on turret mechanics. New Leupold VX-3HD with custom dial felt imprecise in the adjustment
Ability to reliably hold zero with hunting use.

While talking with Bill Wilson at the NRA annual meeting in Dallas, he had his NULA rifles sporting Trijicon Accupoint.
I’m leaning that way for now. Those fit the bill on weight, adjustments, US assembled.

Thanks for all the suggestions

Kris
Cajun in Texas

If you are gonna hunt pigs, be sure to get a useable illuminated reticle. I’m pretty sure Trijicon offers that.

When I say ‘useable’, the illumination needs to be such that you can dial it down to very dim. What I like about the VX5HD illumination is the Firedot. Just a red dot that can be dialed down to where you can barely see it. Not a busy thing at all. Just that tiny red dot on a black hog.

IMO it's hard to beat a trijicon accupoint for hunting. I much prefer it over the vx5hd(owned 3 of them). I have 3 of the accupoints with the standard duplex green dot for hunting and they just work for my eyes and needs.

That’s what I use on my 22 Hornet for varmint hunting. Green dot is easy to see even with a red light.

"Not PRS or Long Range"

"Interested in dial up capability"

Ok, so what do you need the scope for? Dialing up for up to a 500 yard shot? Doesn't matter if you're in a rifle match, practicing on the rifle range, dialing elevation for an animal. A proper functioning scope either works or it doesn't.

You've been given feedback on brands that work, and brands that don't work..

The Trijicon Credo 3-9x40 with a Mil Square reticle is a favorite of mine. 17 oz, capped turrets, illumination. Looks good on a classic rifle. I have one on my Kimber 84M in 257 Roberts and one on my chopped 6.8 bolt action. I doubt I would ever dial for a shot with capped turrets , but I would use the reticle for a hold over if needed.

I don’t think the lighter Trijicons with capped turrets are the best for cranking turrets for a shot. They are not built for that.

JMO. Below has a good reticle for taking longer shots.

https://www.eurooptic.com/Trijicon-...1-in-Matte-Black-Riflescope-2900042.aspx

That is one really nifty looking rifle.

I use Swfa 3-9 scopes on both of my kimber 84L’s. However, like a previous poster said they are always on back order. Second place for me would probably be the Swfa 6x or 10x. Heavier scopes that are also good include the bushnell Lrhs that are no longer made and I hear good things about the new maven scope, rs1.2. Anything Nightforce will track and hold zero, maybe look at the shv line. I had always been a leupold user until about 7-8 years ago and finally got tired of sending scopes in for warranty work. I tend to find that the folks that say they don’t have issues with leupold and vortex don’t shoot enough to know their scopes have failed.

ABSOLUTELY!!!

The same goes for those that say they've never had an ejector spring fail in a Savage bolt. They probably have not put enough rounds through that rifle for it to fail yet.

You've been reading too many "expert" opinions over on Rokslide apparently.

Like others have posted here, I used to be a "Leupold man", but in recent years the quality has gone way down. None of the newer Leupold scopes I've tried will move POI a consistent amount per click or repeat. Once zeroed, they do seem to hold zero though. The last Leupolds that I was happy with were VX 2s and I'm really pissed at Leupold for discontinuing the 9.5oz VX2 Ultralight 3-9x33, these were GREAT hunting scopes for lightweight rifles !!!

I've pretty much moved on to Trijicon Accupoints and Swarovski Z3s for quality lightweight scopes. But, I have to admit, I've got several Burris Fullfield II and Droptine scopes made in the Philippines that I've have zero issues with and the 3-9x40s are still available from Amazon and Natchez for under $160. The new production Burris Fullfields are made in CHINA, so are a NO GO for me.

I've shot with about 12 Leupolds in the last 12 months. Not a one of them tracked properly. I saw at 100 yard paper, and I saw it on every piece of steep from 200 to 800 yards. The last one to fail to perform correctly was ten days ago.

That's great. I've probably killed 200 big game animals with Leupold's alone, never an issue. Over 60 of those in Africa, getting the crap beat out of it from the airline handling gorillas, and in the back of a landcruiser with more beatings. Neve wiggled. Some have problems, some don't like every other brand, some more than others for sure. 95%+ of big game animals killed every year are under 300 yards so most of this LR obsession and high BC bullet obsession is moot anyway, and yes, I enjoy shooting LR alot.

I wonder what percent of shooters/hunters do not have a rifle setup along with the needed skills to actually see small shifts and understand what is happening?

Probably the same number that aren't talented enough to discern shooter error/quality of ammo/scope mounting/environmentals/parallax from perceived scope zero shifting.

It is not moot at my place. I stay quite busy with it, actually.

As has been discussed many times before. Things are changing. Some people want the ability to reach out farther than they have before. Those that wish to do so, will have much less frustration by using equipment that works properly. I get the opportunity to use many different brands of optics, rifles, and loading components. I just call em like I see em.

<10%

It's moot 95%+ of the time in big/medium game hunting was the point. What you do at your place is irrelevant to that fact.

Leupoldd VX5 HD is on my two primary hunting rifles. I have dialed them to kills at 330, 370, 550 yards on coyotes in the last year, 15-20 shots on 8” steel at 300, 400 and 500 yards, easy shots on deer under 200 yards, more hogs than I can count…… one has been doing it for 7 years. I’ve dialed as many times as 7-8 for different ranges over about 45 shots in a few hours, always back to perfect zero. There’s a reason every time I’m around a bunch of hunters LEUPOLD is 1/2 of all the scopes in the group.

Any one want a good deal on a vx5HD 3-15x44 firedot…. W/alumin caps. Greatest scope in the world, infallible there for incapable of fallacy with abilities to dial across international boarders. AT&T even called to see if they could learn how to reach out and touch something…..

Would even consider shipping

All BS aside, this is possibly the best low light hunting scope that I’ve used. Good quality glass and the firedot make it excellent for pigs after legal light. Unfortunately after a bad experience with a Mk 5 I quit using anything with that name on it for dialing. That’s my limited experience, but it’s too damn much money for it to be wandering around. It wasn’t even consistently wrong, which I could have dealt with.

Thats funny, regardless which side youre on.

From the very first post.

"Have you noticed a decline in the quality of reticle adjustment dials in Leupold in the current line up?"

The man is asking about turret function on Leupold scopes. What I'm doing at my place is testing things. Which is exactly what the O.P. started this thread about. Turret controls do not only apply to shooting distance. They apply to getting a scope zeroed on paper.

Funny, when I guided 160+ hunters for aoudad, mule deer, whitey's and antelope 90% of them had a Leupold scope of some sort and Swaro binos. These were guys that could buy whatever, whenever they wanted and hunt all over the world. Never had one lose zero or go bonkers on a hunt. Have some fun with it though, while you're testing and mounting scopes I'll be killing game.

FWIW, I haven't bought one in a while, as I like to try new stuff and prove to myself what works and what doesn't and do so shooting targets and such at longer ranges. In spite of internet folklore, that successfully includes LRHSi, Arken, and a couple of Athlons lately.

And I've got clients that too can buy anything they want. Of late was a Doctor I've done lots of work for. He was fed up with Leupold letting him down, and went to NF NX8.


My freezer is always full of wild meat that I killed. I ate it for supper last night, and breakfast this morning.

That has nothing to do with the fact that I can give out experience across lots of brands of rifles, rifle scopes, and loading components. This is not a part time job anymore.

Gotta go shoot a riflefkr load development now...

Experience without bias is great for everyone. Lots of guys shoot and kill enough to know what works.

Absolutely best glass in the world!!!! Gov has banned it from over seas sales due to it Night vision capabilities!!

Still for sale, I’m the orginal Owner but won’t be the last.

There's this fella near our place outside Canadian, TX who has won more Camp Perry's than anyone else, 11 IIRC, and is the most accomplished LR competition shooter the world has ever known. You can google him, last name Tubb. You'd be shocked at his scope of choice that wears his custom reticles.......

Let’s be honest He could win with a tasco, But tasco doesn’t have same incentive plan.

Scope world is no different than hunting boots.

One year Crispi is sponsoring everyone, then those people switch to Zamberlan, then Hanwag etc. Just depends on who is getting aggressive on marketing that year.

If leupold wants to sponsor me I’m all in, I have rails so back up in truck is easy

He could, but he doesn't. Pretty sure nobody could win with scopes that never dial correctly or hold zero.

Just have to make it through one tournament

Once? https://www.davidtubb.com/About-David_Tubb

He has won (to date) a record eleven NRA National High Power Rifle Championship titles at Camp Perry, Ohio. That's four more than next best. In addition, David is an NRA Silhouette Rifle legend, having won nearly 30 open, individual National Championship titles in all four rifle categories. David has also won seven Sportsmen's Team Challenge Championships along with six NRA Long Range Rifle (600-1000 yd.) National Championships, including his latest win in 2011 during which he also won his second Wimbledon Cup

No I know who he is, his merits speaks for themselves.

i just saying it only has to make it through one tournament and then you can replace was my point.

Oh, OK. That went right over my head. Sorry about that.

It’s all good, want to buy a Luppy

Are you ready to give it away yet?????

Sell it to onlysmith&wesson. He will buy it.

He’s had his chance, his safe must be full.